• 2020

    From The Millionaire@VERT to All on Monday, July 08, 2019 07:42:51
    what are your predictions forthe next decade?

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to The Millionaire on Monday, July 08, 2019 10:41:06
    Re: 2020
    By: The Millionaire to All on Mon Jul 08 2019 09:42 am

    what are your predictions forthe next decade?

    That's a very open question.. One thing is self-driving cars, and I've heard other people say this too, there may be a day when a law is passed requiring all cars on the road to be self-driving, for safety reasons (eliminating the human element, including drunk drivers and human error, etc.). It seems that may well happen, maybe in the next decade, maybe beyond. Also, if self-driving cars become more and more common, I've heard people say some people might opt to not own a car at all, and call a self-driving taxi when they need to get somewhere.

    Nightfox

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Tuesday, July 09, 2019 18:59:00
    On 07-08-19 12:41, Nightfox wrote to The Millionaire <=-

    what are your predictions forthe next decade?

    That's a very open question.. One thing is self-driving cars, and I've heard other people say this too, there may be a day when a law is
    passed requiring all cars on the road to be self-driving, for safety reasons (eliminating the human element, including drunk drivers and
    human error, etc.). It seems that may well happen, maybe in the next decade, maybe beyond. Also, if self-driving cars become more and more common, I've heard people say some people might opt to not own a car at all, and call a self-driving taxi when they need to get somewhere.

    Self driving cars are definitely coming. There will probably be a few generations of them, each with increasing capabilities, especially when away from the big cities and major highways.

    I also suspect there will be the occasional bugs, but these will be resolved quickly by the manufacturers. Some of these may cause fatalities, but like air travel, overall, the roads will be safer when the majoprity of cars are self driving.


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Tuesday, July 09, 2019 07:52:52
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Tue Jul 09 2019 08:59 pm

    Self driving cars are definitely coming. There will probably be a few generations of them, each with increasing capabilities, especially when away from the big cities and major highways.

    I also suspect there will be the occasional bugs, but these will be resolved quickly by the manufacturers. Some of these may cause fatalities, but like air travel, overall, the roads will be safer when the majoprity of cars are self driving.

    I've been hearing about them for quite a while now. I had heard Google had some self-driving test cars out on the road, and I think I've heard Toyota has some too. I thought they were still in a testing/trial phase, but every so often I hear about a company actually selling self-driving cars now. I've also heard of a couple instances where a self-driving car has made a mistake and crashed and possibly injured someone. With self-driving cars, there's the issue of liability, which will be an issue for insurance companies and proving who's at fault in an accident (the driver or the car maker).

    Nightfox

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 05:43:00
    On 07-09-19 09:52, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I've been hearing about them for quite a while now. I had heard Google had some self-driving test cars out on the road, and I think I've heard Toyota has some too. I thought they were still in a testing/trial
    phase, but every so often I hear about a company actually selling

    Yeah, there's quite a few companies doing tests now. I saw something on the TV news a while ago that the government here has made some legislative changes that will help the car companies test under real world conditions.

    self-driving cars now. I've also heard of a couple instances where a

    There's several levels of "self driving", but only one is the full automation that most people associate with the term. Can't recall where I read it, otherwise I'd send a link.

    self-driving car has made a mistake and crashed and possibly injured someone. With self-driving cars, there's the issue of liability, which will be an issue for insurance companies and proving who's at fault in
    an accident (the driver or the car maker).

    Yes, I've seen those incidents too. These are examples of some of the bugs that will have to be sorted. And yes, there's legal implications too. I'll leave that to the lawyers and politicians. ;)


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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Vk3jed on Tuesday, July 09, 2019 22:39:40
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Wed Jul 10 2019 07:43 am


    self-driving cars now. I've also heard of a couple instances where a

    There's several levels of "self driving", but only one is the full automation that most people associate with the term. Can't recall where I read it, otherwise I'd send a link.


    i would like to see a cheap car that's entirely automated. like real cheap. nothing fancy.

    also i think all cars need to be safer. they should be built like bumper cars and have the body easy to swap out.
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to MRO on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 16:49:00
    On 07-10-19 00:39, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    i would like to see a cheap car that's entirely automated. like real cheap. nothing fancy.

    That would be very useful for a lot of things.

    also i think all cars need to be safer. they should be built like
    bumper cars and have the body easy to swap out.

    Safety is importantant, and today's cars are a lot safer than previous models. And going driverless will certainly increase safety overall.


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to MRO on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 04:32:00
    MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    i would like to see a cheap car that's entirely automated. like real cheap. nothing fancy.

    Yeah, the computer hardware would be cheap. Tons of batteries,
    electric-only (less moving parts) and a roomy hatchback body paired
    with a low cost would sell well.

    R&D would be spendy - imagine seeing a blue screen of death on your
    nav console because they built a real-time driving system on Windows!



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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Vk3jed on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 04:33:00
    Vk3jed wrote to MRO <=-

    Safety is importantant, and today's cars are a lot safer than previous models. And going driverless will certainly increase safety overall.

    Yeah, but the cost of repair has skyrocketed.



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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 07:44:30
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: MRO to Vk3jed on Wed Jul 10 2019 12:39 am

    also i think all cars need to be safer. they should be built like bumper cars and have the body easy to swap out.

    I don't think they want to make cars easy to work on. They want you to bring it into their shop so they can make more money on repairs.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 07:48:30
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Vk3jed to MRO on Wed Jul 10 2019 06:49 pm

    Safety is importantant, and today's cars are a lot safer than previous models. And going driverless will certainly increase safety overall.

    For safety, I think it would really help if all cars on the road are self-driving. That way, they can be more predictable for less risk of accidents. Self-driving cars could even communicate with each other wirelessly to help avoid accidents.

    However, I still think there are some roads & pathways people might want to go where a self-driving car might have trouble. If someone wants to drive off the main roadway and into the forest or to the beach, for example, I'm wondering if a self-driving car could navigate where they want to go.

    Nightfox

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to poindexter FORTRAN on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 13:58:38
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to MRO on Wed Jul 10 2019 06:32 am

    MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    i would like to see a cheap car that's entirely automated. like real cheap. nothing fancy.

    Yeah, the computer hardware would be cheap. Tons of batteries,
    electric-only (less moving parts) and a roomy hatchback body paired
    with a low cost would sell well.

    R&D would be spendy - imagine seeing a blue screen of death on your
    nav console because they built a real-time driving system on Windows!



    now batteries are what make it expensive.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to poindexter FORTRAN on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 13:59:07
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Vk3jed on Wed Jul 10 2019 06:33 am

    Vk3jed wrote to MRO <=-

    Safety is importantant, and today's cars are a lot safer than previous models. And going driverless will certainly increase safety overall.

    Yeah, but the cost of repair has skyrocketed.


    yeah if i get a dent on my bumper that's 1,000 usd
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Thursday, July 11, 2019 05:38:00
    On 07-10-19 06:33, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT/REALITY
    Vk3jed wrote to MRO <=-

    Safety is importantant, and today's cars are a lot safer than previous models. And going driverless will certainly increase safety overall.

    Yeah, but the cost of repair has skyrocketed.

    Hopefully they'll be electric as well, much lower maintenance costs.


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Thursday, July 11, 2019 06:00:00
    On 07-10-19 09:48, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    For safety, I think it would really help if all cars on the road are self-driving. That way, they can be more predictable for less risk of accidents. Self-driving cars could even communicate with each other wirelessly to help avoid accidents.

    Yep, I agree on all counts.

    However, I still think there are some roads & pathways people might
    want to go where a self-driving car might have trouble. If someone
    wants to drive off the main roadway and into the forest or to the
    beach, for example, I'm wondering if a self-driving car could navigate where they want to go.

    I suspect you're right. Off road driving is a different beast, though some of the smarts may still be useful for pointing out potential hazards to the driver - rocks, trees, stumps, potholes, etc.


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 18:44:58
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed Jul 10 2019 09:44 am

    I don't think they want to make cars easy to work on. They want you to bring it into their shop so they can make more money on repairs.

    It's getting silly. I need to replace the spark plugs in my 2014 Prius, something I'm perfectly capable of doing. Only problem is, they tilted the plugs 60 degrees back towards the firewall, so you need to remove the windshield wipers and the fascia to get to them!

    They could have easily tilted them the other way to allow for easy replacement.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to MRO on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 18:47:43
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Jul 10 2019 03:59 pm

    Yeah, but the cost of repair has skyrocketed.

    yeah if i get a dent on my bumper that's 1,000 usd

    I miss the 1977 Rabbit I drove when I lived in San Francisco. Big ass chrome bumpers with a thick rubber strip down the middle.

    I got rear-ended in my prius, and a scratch on the bumper was $1200.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 20:28:26
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Wed Jul 10 2019 08:44 pm

    It's getting silly. I need to replace the spark plugs in my 2014 Prius, something I'm perfectly capable of doing. Only problem is, they tilted the plugs 60 degrees back towards the firewall, so you need to remove the windshield wipers and the fascia to get to them!

    They could have easily tilted them the other way to allow for easy replacement.

    That's a bit ridiculous.. You're supposed to be able to save some money on gas by driving a hybrid, but you end up paying more by taking the car in for work that you should be able to do yourself.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 20:44:01
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to MRO on Wed Jul 10 2019 08:47 pm

    I miss the 1977 Rabbit I drove when I lived in San Francisco. Big ass chrome bumpers with a thick rubber strip down the middle.

    The older cars were a lot easier to work on and fix.. I had a 1996 Geo Prizm (basically a Toyota Corolla) for a little while, and changing the oil in that car was very easy. I didn't even have to jack it up if I didn't want to. I could fit an oil pan under it and drain the oil without jacking up the front of the car, and the oil filter was just below the middle front of the engine, so I could easily reach down from the top and unscrew the oil filter and screw in a new oil filter. An oil change took about 10-15 minutes with that car (depending on how long it took to drain the old oil).

    Nightfox

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  • From Dr. What@VERT/TWODUDES to Nightfox on Thursday, July 11, 2019 05:37:04
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed Jul 10 2019 09:44 am

    I don't think they want to make cars easy to work on. They want you to bring it into their shop so they can make more money on repairs.

    I used to work with the guys at GM who figured out how to fix everything into the engine compartment.

    The reason cars are hard to work on is because cars are much more complicated due to emissions and fuel efficiency requirements pushed onto the car manufacturers by the gov't.

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Thursday, July 11, 2019 08:39:00
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Wed Jul 10 2019 09:48 am

    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Vk3jed to MRO on Wed Jul 10 2019 06:49 pm

    Safety is importantant, and today's cars are a lot safer than previous models. And going driverless will certainly increase safety overall.

    For safety, I think it would really help if all cars on the road are self-driving. That way, they can be more predictable for less risk of accidents. Self-driving cars could even communicate with each other wireles to help avoid accidents.

    However, I still think there are some roads & pathways people might want to where a self-driving car might have trouble. If someone wants to drive off main roadway and into the forest or to the beach, for example, I'm wondering a self-driving car could navigate where they want to go.

    Nightfox


    I live in a rural area with lots of dirt side roads, and the biggest problem navigating them is either mud/ water over the road or bumps and deep depressions in the road. Wasgboarding is another effect that could cause handling issues. Whatvever system the car uses to detedct the upcoming terrain, it would need to know how to react quickly when potholes or deep
    ruts suddenly appear, and anti-lock braking may not react well on gravel surfaces.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dr. What on Thursday, July 11, 2019 07:42:13
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Dr. What to Nightfox on Thu Jul 11 2019 07:37 am

    I used to work with the guys at GM who figured out how to fix everything into the engine compartment.

    The reason cars are hard to work on is because cars are much more complicated due to emissions and fuel efficiency requirements pushed onto the car manufacturers by the gov't.

    I doubt that's the only reason. I think some things on a car could still be made easy to work on. For instance, Poindexter Fortran recently said it's difficult to replace the spark plugs in his car's engine because of the way the engine is facing. And with some cars, it's more difficult to change the oil than other cars.. I know cars are more complicated these days, but I'd think some maintenance tasks could still be made easy. Changing spark plugs, oil, filters, fluids, etc. should be easy IMO, as those are fairly regular maintenance tasks.

    Nightfox

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to poindexter FORTRAN on Thursday, July 11, 2019 14:05:00
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to MRO on Wed Jul 10 2019 08:47 pm

    Re: Re: 2020
    By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Jul 10 2019 03:59 pm

    Yeah, but the cost of repair has skyrocketed.

    yeah if i get a dent on my bumper that's 1,000 usd

    I miss the 1977 Rabbit I drove when I lived in San Francisco. Big ass chrome bumpers with a thick rubber strip down the middle.

    I got rear-ended in my prius, and a scratch on the bumper was $1200.


    if it's a scratch you can normally buff that out and touch up paint. i had a cracked bumper on my ford exploder and fixed it myself with a plastic welder from harbor freight and i painted it 5 times with a primer that matched the color.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Thursday, July 11, 2019 14:06:42
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Jul 10 2019 10:44 pm


    I miss the 1977 Rabbit I drove when I lived in San Francisco. Big ass chrome bumpers with a thick rubber strip down the middle.

    The older cars were a lot easier to work on and fix.. I had a 1996 Geo Prizm (basically a Toyota Corolla) for a little while, and changing the oil in that car was very easy. I didn't even have to jack it up if I didn't want to. I could fit an oil pan under it and drain the oil without jacking up the front of the car, and the oil filter was just below the middle front of the engine, so I could easily reach down from the top and unscrew the oil filter and screw in a new oil filter. An oil change took about 10-15 minutes with that car (depending on how long it took to drain the old oil).


    yep. everything is made more difficult and they have parts made out of rubber and other items that deteriate. i have a weird clamp for my exhaust that is made out of rubber. i had a new one put on last year and it's ready to split and fail already.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dr. What on Thursday, July 11, 2019 14:07:19
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Dr. What to Nightfox on Thu Jul 11 2019 07:37 am

    The reason cars are hard to work on is because cars are much more complicated due to emissions and fuel efficiency requirements pushed onto the car manufacturers by the gov't.



    it's just poor design by engineers.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Thursday, July 11, 2019 14:08:31
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Nightfox to Dr. What on Thu Jul 11 2019 09:42 am

    difficult to replace the spark plugs in his car's engine because of the way the engine is facing. And with some cars, it's more difficult to change the oil than other cars.. I know cars are more complicated these days, but I'd think some maintenance tasks could still be made easy. Changing spark plugs, oil, filters, fluids, etc. should be easy IMO, as those are fairly regular maintenance tasks.


    on some cars you need to take off the tire to take out the battery.
    some cars have the battery in a compartment in the trunk and it reaches all the way to the front. it's stupid engineers.
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  • From Dr. What@VERT/TWODUDES to Nightfox on Thursday, July 11, 2019 16:58:32
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Nightfox to Dr. What on Thu Jul 11 2019 09:42 am

    I doubt that's the only reason. I think some things on a car could still be made easy to work on. For instance, Poindexter Fortran recently said it's difficult to replace the spark plugs in his car's engine because of the way the engine is facing. And with some cars, it's more difficult to change the oil than other cars.. I know cars are more complicated these days, but I'd think some maintenance tasks could still be made easy. Changing spark plugs, oil, filters, fluids, etc. should be easy IMO, as those are fairly regular maintenance tasks.

    No, but it's the main reason.

    For fuel efficienty, weight is a big factor. That means less room for things. They have to really pack things in - which often puts oil filters and spark plugs in inconvienent places. But remember that you don't need to change those things as often compared to old cars.

    I remember the guys at GM. They got an engine from Engineer 1 and then the engine compartment from Engineer 2, then they had to figure out how combine them - and work with both engineers to make it happen. Much swearing occured.

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  • From Dr. What@VERT/TWODUDES to MRO on Thursday, July 11, 2019 16:59:41
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: MRO to Dr. What on Thu Jul 11 2019 04:07 pm

    it's just poor design by engineers.

    It's the best design that they are ALLOWED to make based on the artificial constraints given to them by non-engineers and bureaucrats.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Thursday, July 11, 2019 15:07:38
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Jul 11 2019 04:08 pm

    on some cars you need to take off the tire to take out the battery.
    some cars have the battery in a compartment in the trunk and it reaches all the way to the front. it's stupid engineers.

    I've seen some cars with the battery in the trunk and thought it was weird..

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dr. What on Thursday, July 11, 2019 15:09:36
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Dr. What to Nightfox on Thu Jul 11 2019 06:58 pm

    For fuel efficienty, weight is a big factor. That means less room for things. They have to really pack things in - which often puts oil filters and spark plugs in inconvienent places. But remember that you don't need to change those things as often compared to old cars.

    Seems odd that they'd need to cram things together tightly to reduce weight. I know smaller cars are lighter, but it seemed like older cars (up to the late 80s or so) were lighter than today's cars and often didn't need to be very cramped.

    I remember the guys at GM. They got an engine from Engineer 1 and then the engine compartment from Engineer 2, then they had to figure out how combine them - and work with both engineers to make it happen. Much swearing occured.

    They didn't work together on that?

    Nightfox

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dr. What on Thursday, July 11, 2019 15:56:40
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Dr. What to Nightfox on Thu Jul 11 2019 07:37 am

    The reason cars are hard to work on is because cars are much more complicated due to emissions and fuel efficiency requirements pushed onto the car manufacturers by the gov't.

    I love watching Wheeler Dealers when they're working on an old car. Engine running front to back, spark plugs running to a distributor off of the engine, coil bolted to the firewall, a cable running from the gas pedal to a carburator, a fan belt connecting the alternator, etc... And nothing extraneous.

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Friday, July 12, 2019 10:03:00
    On 07-11-19 17:07, Nightfox wrote to MRO <=-

    @VIA: VERT/DIGDIST
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Jul 11 2019 04:08 pm

    on some cars you need to take off the tire to take out the battery.
    some cars have the battery in a compartment in the trunk and it reaches all the way to the front. it's stupid engineers.

    I've seen some cars with the battery in the trunk and thought it was

    Worst I've seen is the battery under the driver's seat (some Range Rovers do this). Stupid place, because in the event of an accident, you can't make the car safe before removing the driver.


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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dr. What on Thursday, July 11, 2019 20:26:37
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Dr. What to MRO on Thu Jul 11 2019 06:59 pm

    Re: Re: 2020
    By: MRO to Dr. What on Thu Jul 11 2019 04:07 pm

    it's just poor design by engineers.

    It's the best design that they are ALLOWED to make based on the artificial constraints given to them by non-engineers and bureaucrats.



    so you think putting a fucking car battery in a bumper or wheel well is the best design? or under the passenger seat?

    https://imgur.com/YHdl0RF
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Thursday, July 11, 2019 20:27:09
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Jul 11 2019 05:07 pm

    Re: Re: 2020
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Jul 11 2019 04:08 pm

    on some cars you need to take off the tire to take out the battery. some cars have the battery in a compartment in the trunk and it reaches all the way to the front. it's stupid engineers.

    I've seen some cars with the battery in the trunk and thought it was weird..

    Nightfox

    my friend's car was like that. and there were jump posts under the hood.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to poindexter FORTRAN on Thursday, July 11, 2019 20:28:46
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dr. What on Thu Jul 11 2019 05:56 pm

    I love watching Wheeler Dealers when they're working on an old car. Engine running front to back, spark plugs running to a distributor off of the


    i had an oldsmobile and mechanics loved working on it. it saved me a lot of money on labor.
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  • From Dr. What@VERT/TWODUDES to MRO on Friday, July 12, 2019 10:56:05
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Jul 11 2019 04:08 pm

    on some cars you need to take off the tire to take out the battery.
    some cars have the battery in a compartment in the trunk and it reaches all the way to the front. it's stupid engineers.

    Yup. Had one of those. The battery is in the trunk because there was no room in the front - without having to resort to having to take the wheel off to change the battery.

    It's not stupidity. It's having to work with constraints that they are given - often by people who are not engineers.

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  • From Dr. What@VERT/TWODUDES to Nightfox on Friday, July 12, 2019 10:57:46
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Nightfox to Dr. What on Thu Jul 11 2019 05:09 pm

    Seems odd that they'd need to cram things together tightly to reduce weight. I know smaller cars are lighter, but it seemed like older cars (up to the late 80s or so) were lighter than today's cars and often didn't need to be very cramped.

    More metal = more weight. Older cars were significantly heavier.

    They didn't work together on that?

    We're talking large corporations here. "Work together"? What's that?

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  • From Dr. What@VERT/TWODUDES to poindexter FORTRAN on Friday, July 12, 2019 10:59:34
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dr. What on Thu Jul 11 2019 05:56 pm

    I love watching Wheeler Dealers when they're working on an old car. Engine running front to back, spark plugs running to a distributor off of the engine, coil bolted to the firewall, a cable running from the gas pedal to a carburator, a fan belt connecting the alternator, etc... And nothing extraneous.

    I remember working with my grandfather on cars (he was a master mechanic). The old ones were so simple to work on. My mom's car was a Ford Model A 1931. Not a whole lot to that car. But it wouldn't pass an emissions test today.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Friday, July 12, 2019 09:18:22
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Jul 11 2019 05:07 pm

    I've seen some cars with the battery in the trunk and thought it was weird..

    With a front-wheel drive car, it helps with weight distribution.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dr. What on Friday, July 12, 2019 10:51:10
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Dr. What to Nightfox on Fri Jul 12 2019 12:57 pm

    Seems odd that they'd need to cram things together tightly to reduce
    weight. I know smaller cars are lighter, but it seemed like older cars
    (up to the late 80s or so) were lighter than today's cars and often
    didn't need to be very cramped.

    More metal = more weight. Older cars were significantly heavier.

    Yes, though it seems some cars have gotten bigger and heavier with age (their older versions seemed lighter). One example is Volkswagen's Rabbit/Golf - Over the years, it seems they've made it bigger and heavier. Though, I suspect the older versions of it were easier to work on.

    They didn't work together on that?

    We're talking large corporations here. "Work together"? What's that?

    I'd think something as significant as an engine and an engine compartment would require collaboration between teams to ensure they're compatible.. It's not like they're working for separate companies.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Friday, July 12, 2019 10:52:16
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Fri Jul 12 2019 11:18 am

    I've seen some cars with the battery in the trunk and thought it was
    weird..

    With a front-wheel drive car, it helps with weight distribution.

    Even most front-wheel drive cars I've seen have a battery in the front near the engine. I've also heard that having more weight on the drive wheels helps with traction.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dr. What on Friday, July 12, 2019 11:00:59
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Dr. What to MRO on Fri Jul 12 2019 12:56 pm

    Yup. Had one of those. The battery is in the trunk because there was no room in the front - without having to resort to having to take the wheel off to change the battery.

    It's not stupidity. It's having to work with constraints that they are given - often by people who are not engineers.

    When most cars (that I've seen anyway) have the battery in the engine compartment, it seems weird to have the battery in the trunk or somewhere else. It doesn't seem like a common necessity to have the battery somewhere else.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dr. What on Friday, July 12, 2019 11:02:14
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Dr. What to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Jul 12 2019 12:59 pm

    I remember working with my grandfather on cars (he was a master mechanic). The old ones were so simple to work on. My mom's car was a Ford Model A 1931. Not a whole lot to that car. But it wouldn't pass an emissions test today.

    Some places don't even do emissions testing. I live in an area that has done car emissions testing for years, but a while ago I found out that some neighboring counties nearby don't do emissions testing.

    Nightfox

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dr. What on Friday, July 12, 2019 14:18:43
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Dr. What to MRO on Fri Jul 12 2019 12:56 pm

    Yup. Had one of those. The battery is in the trunk because there was no room in the front - without having to resort to having to take the wheel off to change the battery.

    It's not stupidity. It's having to work with constraints that they are given - often by people who are not engineers.



    nope it's stupidity. i have a fucking compact car and my battery is setup fine. because it's an asian car and not made by some shit american company.

    stupid engineering.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dr. What on Friday, July 12, 2019 14:19:19
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Dr. What to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Jul 12 2019 12:59 pm

    The old ones were so simple to work on. My mom's car was a Ford Model A 1931. Not a whole lot to that car. But it wouldn't pass an emissions test today.


    older cars are usually exempt from emissions testing.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Friday, July 12, 2019 14:20:41
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Jul 12 2019 12:52 pm

    Re: Re: 2020
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Fri Jul 12 2019 11:18 am

    I've seen some cars with the battery in the trunk and thought it was
    weird..

    With a front-wheel drive car, it helps with weight distribution.

    Even most front-wheel drive cars I've seen have a battery in the front near the engine. I've also heard that having more weight on the drive wheels helps with traction.

    it's also the most practical place it should be for a few reasons.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Friday, July 12, 2019 14:21:36
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Nightfox to Dr. What on Fri Jul 12 2019 01:00 pm


    When most cars (that I've seen anyway) have the battery in the engine compartment, it seems weird to have the battery in the trunk or somewhere else. It doesn't seem like a common necessity to have the battery somewhere else.

    i'm not even buying a car if it has something stupid like that going on.
    it's probably the tip of the iceberg.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Friday, July 12, 2019 14:22:17
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Nightfox to Dr. What on Fri Jul 12 2019 01:02 pm

    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Dr. What to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Jul 12 2019 12:59 pm

    I remember working with my grandfather on cars (he was a master mechanic). The old ones were so simple to work on. My mom's car was a Ford Model A 1931. Not a whole lot to that car. But it wouldn't pass an emissions test today.

    Some places don't even do emissions testing. I live in an area that has done car emissions testing for years, but a while ago I found out that some neighboring counties nearby don't do emissions testing.


    in my state they used to get accurate tests by putting a hose on your pipe. now they just jack it in your car computer.
    who knows if that even works right.
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Friday, July 12, 2019 14:12:29
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Jul 12 2019 04:22 pm

    in my state they used to get accurate tests by putting a hose on your pipe. now they just jack it in your car computer.
    who knows if that even works right.

    Yeah, it's the same here. The plug into your car's OBD2 port and read sensor data. Maybe cars these days have sensors reading the car's emissions.. But I'd think they'd still be able to get accurate readings by putting a hose on your exhaust pipe. A car's sensors could be faulty, and you can also get an OBD2 code reader and clear any error codes before going to get your car's emissions tested.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Friday, July 12, 2019 14:24:34
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: MRO to Dr. What on Fri Jul 12 2019 04:18 pm

    nope it's stupidity. i have a fucking compact car and my battery is setup fine. because it's an asian car and not made by some shit american company.

    stupid engineering.

    Funny thing is, although American cars might be designed in the US, some American cars are built in other countries (there are factories in Mexico for some of them, for instance). And some foreign auto brands have factories in the US. I know Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen, and BMW have manufacturing factories in the US, and others might too.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Friday, July 12, 2019 14:25:40
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: MRO to Dr. What on Fri Jul 12 2019 04:19 pm

    A 1931. Not a whole lot to that car. But it wouldn't pass an
    emissions test today.

    older cars are usually exempt from emissions testing.

    That's true, but I think he was saying even if they're exempt, it pollutes too much by today's standards.

    Nightfox

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Friday, July 12, 2019 20:21:34
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Fri Jul 12 2019 04:12 pm

    sensor data. Maybe cars these days have sensors reading the car's emissions.. But I'd think they'd still be able to get accurate readings by putting a hose on your exhaust pipe. A car's sensors could be faulty, and you can also get an OBD2 code reader and clear any error codes before going to get your car's emissions tested.


    there is a code that it puts in there that will make it fail. you have to clear the code and drive like 100miles for that code to pass before you do emissions.

    i think the emissions test is total bs now and it's done by gas stations now. ---
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  • From Dan Clough@VERT/PALANT to MRO on Saturday, July 13, 2019 07:01:00
    MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-

    i think the emissions test is total bs now and it's done by gas
    stations now.

    Emissions testing is not done at all here in Florida.


    ... FIGHT BACK! ... Fill out your tax forms with Roman numerals.
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  • From Mandarax@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Saturday, July 13, 2019 05:39:00
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Jul 11 2019 10:27 pm

    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Jul 11 2019 05:07 pm

    Re: Re: 2020
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Jul 11 2019 04:08 pm

    on some cars you need to take off the tire to take out the battery. some cars have the battery in a compartment in the trunk and it reac all the way to the front. it's stupid engineers.

    I've seen some cars with the battery in the trunk and thought it was weir

    Nightfox

    my friend's car was like that. and there were jump posts under the hood.

    I work for a major automobile battery manufacturer (they like nascar alot). Trust me, where to put the battery in the car is likely one of the last
    things given to the designers and engineers to figure out. One of the
    newest, worst examples, is the new Ford Escapes, and Focus. The entire air intake assembly needs to be removed just to get the battery out of the
    vehicle.

    Mandarax

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Mandarax on Saturday, July 13, 2019 13:27:19
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Mandarax to MRO on Sat Jul 13 2019 07:39 am

    I've seen some cars with the battery in the trunk and thought it was weir

    Nightfox

    my friend's car was like that. and there were jump posts under the hood.

    I work for a major automobile battery manufacturer (they like nascar alot). Trust me, where to put the battery in the car is likely one of the last things given to the designers and engineers to figure out. One of the newest, worst examples, is the new Ford Escapes, and Focus. The entire air intake assembly needs to be removed just to get the battery out of the


    there needs to be a guy there who speaks up and says redo it less stupid.
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  • From Dr. What@VERT/TWODUDES to Nightfox on Saturday, July 13, 2019 19:38:34
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Nightfox to Dr. What on Fri Jul 12 2019 01:00 pm

    When most cars (that I've seen anyway) have the battery in the engine compartment, it seems weird to have the battery in the trunk or somewhere else. It doesn't seem like a common necessity to have the battery somewhere else.

    Back in the 1930's, the batteries were under the passenger floorboards.
    Not a good idea, though, and many companies had customers relocate the battery later on.

    But in those cars, there was a little door in the floor that could be used for .... other things (like not having to stop at the rest area. 8)

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  • From Dr. What@VERT/TWODUDES to Nightfox on Saturday, July 13, 2019 19:40:08
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Nightfox to Dr. What on Fri Jul 12 2019 01:02 pm

    Some places don't even do emissions testing. I live in an area that has done car emissions testing for years, but a while ago I found out that some neighboring counties nearby don't do emissions testing.

    In the U.S., auto manufacturers have to prove that their cars meet emissions standards before they can sell them.

    The only emissions testing done outside of that is by areas that want people to keep their cars maintained propertly to keep the emissions down.

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  • From Dr. What@VERT/TWODUDES to Nightfox on Saturday, July 13, 2019 19:42:47
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Fri Jul 12 2019 04:24 pm

    Funny thing is, although American cars might be designed in the US, some American cars are built in other countries (there are factories in Mexico for some of them, for instance). And some foreign auto brands have factories in the US. I know Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen, and BMW have manufacturing factories in the US, and others might too.

    Back when I worked at a GM auto parts warehouse, the union monkeys^H^H^H^H^H^H^H workers posted a sign in front of my co-worker's Honda saying "American made cars only".

    The funny thing was in the union lot, there were a bunch of GEO cars (all made in Japan) while my co-worker's Honda was made in Flat Rock, Michigan.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Saturday, July 13, 2019 17:44:39
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Jul 12 2019 10:21 pm

    i think the emissions test is total bs now and it's done by gas stations now.

    It's not done by gas stations here.. Where I am, the emissions testing is done by DEQ stations (DEQ = Department of Environmental Quality), and we have to get our emissions tested every 2 years, and they give us our updated license plate tabs when our car passes.

    Nightfox

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  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Mandaraxer on Sunday, July 14, 2019 12:46:41
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: MRO to Mandarax on Sat Jul 13 2019 03:27 pm

    last things given to the designers and engineers to figure out. One of the newest, worst examples, is the new Ford Escapes, and Focus. The entire air intake assembly needs to be removed just to get the battery out of the

    How would I "jump" the car if I needed to? Are you saying those cars have no way to do battery maintainence? Are these "disposible" batteries or something? I know the newer batteries are sealed but you used to be able to get to the connections on them in case they got coroded. My spell checker is of no use to me right now. I know some words are spelled wrong. I need a solution darn it! ;-)


    HusTler
    Havens BBS (havens.synchro.net)

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to HusTler on Sunday, July 14, 2019 12:15:12
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: HusTler to Mandaraxer on Sun Jul 14 2019 02:46 pm

    How would I "jump" the car if I needed to? Are you saying those cars have no way to do battery maintainence? Are these "disposible" batteries or something? I know the newer batteries are sealed but you used to be able to get to the connections on them in case they got coroded. My spell checker is of no use to me right now. I know some words are spelled wrong. I need a solution darn it! ;-)


    they usually have some posts for jumping/charging/testing the battery.
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DR. WHAT on Sunday, July 14, 2019 09:17:00
    The only emissions testing done outside of that is by areas that want people to
    keep their cars maintained propertly to keep the emissions down.

    And to collect fees for doing so.

    Louisville, KY, used to do it. It was later discovered to be mostly a sham
    to make some connected people rich. I don't know if they still do it or
    not as I no longer live there (thank goodness).

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  • From Mandarax@VERT/CAVEBBS to HusTler on Sunday, July 14, 2019 17:56:00
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: HusTler to Mandaraxer on Sun Jul 14 2019 02:46 pm


    How would I "jump" the car if I needed to? Are you saying those cars have in case they got coroded. My spell checker is of no use to me right now. I k


    HusTler
    You would use the jump start terminals that were elsewhere in the engine bay.
    In order to get to the battery terminals if cleanining was needed it would
    be the same as removing the battery.


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  • From MATTHEW MUNSON@VERT/IUTOPIA to NIGHTFOX on Saturday, July 20, 2019 01:57:00
    It's not done by gas stations here.. Where I am, the emissions testing is done
    by DEQ stations (DEQ = Department of Environmental Quality), and we have to get
    our emissions tested every 2 years, and they give us our updated license plate
    tabs when our car passes.
    Yea, most of Oregon's regulations happen like a year after the People's Republic of California does it. Portland makes Oregon crap. I had to get
    the smog test as well last month.


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  • From Coolbeans@VERT/MUTINY to MATTHEW MUNSON on Sunday, July 21, 2019 04:58:16
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: MATTHEW MUNSON to NIGHTFOX on Sat Jul 20 2019 03:57:00

    I can see, at least for awhile, the ability to have an older non-self driving car retrofitted with self driving equipment. This would help bring it more into the main stream as most people can't afford to go buy the latest and greatest car. Also people who want to work on their own cars aren't hindered by that, sure they may not be able to work on the self-driving equipment but they can still overhaul the engine etc...

    Most likely a "manual" mode will be present for a long time, possibly indefinately. There'll be lots of situations where people will want to drive manually not only because the car may not be able to navigate (road construction, dirt roads, going off road etc...) but also some people want to drive and most likely everyone would feel more comfortable knowing that they can take control if needed. There's a term for when an archaic(sp?) construct becomes so standard it never goes away but I can't remember what it is. Some examples are the "qwerty" keyboard we still use and the floppy disk icon meaning "save". I think having human driving controls in cars will be like that. Perhaps they'd go away eventually but not for a very long time.

    As for liability whichever car the blame is placed on if the fault goes to the driver keep in mind the driver isn't necessarily any of the human(s) in the car. If it was self-driving then the computer is the driver so blame shifts to that. Then a diagnostic needs to be performed to determine if the fault in the computer was a programming error, a design flaw, or if the fault actually lies with the owner because it was supposed to have been serviced and wasn't. It's not too much different from today, if I have faily new tires and they blow out due to manufacturing mistakes and cause a collision then the tire manufacturer is at fault. I believe this happened with ... firestone was it?

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  • From Renagademaster@VERT/BTTMLSS to Coolbeans on Sunday, July 21, 2019 08:09:00
    I can see, at least for awhile, the ability to have an older non-self driv car retrofitted with self driving equipment. This would help bring it mor into the main stream as most people can't afford to go buy the latest and greatest car. Also people who want to work on their own cars aren't hinde

    I kind of agree, even if the equipment is just to signal other automated cars of a manual one near by and to be aware. There might be a need for other communication equipment once traffic lights and other traffic flow controls
    are removed to allow the manual car to progress through junctions safely.

    Most likely a "manual" mode will be present for a long time, possibly indefinately. There'll be lots of situations where people will want to dr

    I think this will be niche, I foresee most vehicles coming with no method of manual control. No steering wheel, no mirrors, no pedals, and perhaps no "front" or "back" as the car could travel in either direction.

    The way things are going I don't believe my grandchildren will learn to
    drive, some will, just like some still learn to ride a horse.

    RenMas.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MATTHEW MUNSON on Sunday, July 21, 2019 09:44:19
    Re: Re: 2020
    By: MATTHEW MUNSON to NIGHTFOX on Sat Jul 20 2019 03:57 am

    It's not done by gas stations here.. Where I am, the emissions
    testing is done by DEQ stations (DEQ = Department of Environmental
    Quality), and we have to get our emissions tested every 2 years, and
    they give us our updated license plate tabs when our car passes.

    Yea, most of Oregon's regulations happen like a year after the People's Republic of California does it. Portland makes Oregon crap. I had to get the smog test as well last month.

    Not all of Oregon does emissions testing though. Just the northwest of Oregon (last time I checked).

    Nightfox

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