• Re: going to war

    From Nopants@VERT/CITBBS to Arelor on Friday, November 24, 2023 09:32:00
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Arelor to Nopants on Thu Nov 23 2023 12:47 pm

    I think the Social Justice Crowd is notorious for their ability to crank out marketable terms in order to label both friends and enemies, if just because when you play Identitary Politics you need a way to separate people into Identitary Groups so you can profit from the division.

    I agree. The trick is to identify theses people on either side and ignore them. Even if they say some things that tickle your jimmy. If you give them an inch they will take a mile.

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to THE LIZARD MASTER on Sunday, November 26, 2023 12:00:00
    Nah, take all the bullshit down. A majority of that stuff went up in the Jim Cr
    w era for intimidation. We have wikipedia, the history will be okay.

    Wikipedia, where anyone can edit and spin anything however they want. Where they had to lock down the editing of the "Recession" article because someone kept editing it to match the definition that the current White Hous
    prefered to make sure whatever situation we are in doesn't match the definition.

    Yes, that is a very good idea. <rolls eyes>

    Just an example, use whatever you are comfortable with. To sum up wikipedia as
    n anyone can edit failure is telling though.

    "Failure" is your word, not mine, which is why I have over-quoted here.
    Maybe your use of that word is telling?

    I use wikipedia regularly. It is good for many things. The cronological timing of events would be one -- like did this album by this group come out before or after that one? For political and social reasons an event
    happened, you'd better take it with a grain of salt because anyone indeed can edit it.

    I have edited a few BBS related pages. MRO has admited to editing pages.
    Would *you* want either of our interpretations to be used as evidence that "history will be okay"?


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to THE LIZARD MASTER on Sunday, November 26, 2023 13:55:00
    That was just an example. But we don't need statues put up decades after the en
    of the civil war for shitty reasons to keep our history.

    Some were put up long after because immediately after such things were not welcome. Example - any memorials to war dead who were not Union soldiers.
    Not to individuals, but the whole of the dead from an area. They may have fought on the losing side, but they were someone's fathers/brothers/sons.

    Those people still have living relatives but, hey, it is again not cool to remember them, so let's not.


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ARELOR on Sunday, November 26, 2023 14:02:00
    Also, one side is not as good at creating marketing terms like "woke" and ha >> people like yourself carry the water. Good game.

    Also, if memory server well, Black LIves Matter were among the first to popularize the term, and Wikipedia seems to agree:

    "The term woke gained further popularity in the 2010s. Over time, it became increasingly connected to matters beyond race such as gender and identities perceived as marginalized. During the 2014 Ferguson protests, the phrase was popularized by Black Lives Matter (BLM) activists seeking to raise awareness about police shootings of African Americans. "

    I did not think that "conservatives" coined that term. Thanks for proving
    that they did not. Funny, a group likes a term so long as it is only them labeling themselves as such, and not so much when others pick up on it (and what it really means).


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  • From esc@VERT/MONTEREY to Dumas Walker on Sunday, November 26, 2023 22:06:00
    Some were put up long after because immediately after such things were
    not welcome. Example - any memorials to war dead who were not Union soldiers. Not to individuals, but the whole of the dead from an area. They may have fought on the losing side, but they were someone's fathers/brothers/sons.

    More Americans died in the Civil War than any other war. We don't build statues for our enemies, and we don't care who their families are. That goes for any war we've been in...we don't have statues of Bin Laden or Hitler or anyone else, and they had families. Let's not forget that confederate soldiers literally fought for the right to own human slaves. No, we shouldn't have statues of them, that's goofy.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Monday, November 27, 2023 04:22:53
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Dumas Walker to THE LIZARD MASTER on Sun Nov 26 2023 12:00 pm


    I have edited a few BBS related pages. MRO has admited to editing pages. Would *you* want either of our interpretations to be used as evidence that "history will be okay"?

    i have edited pages with fake info and added sources to back it up just to piss off people. If you cite a book nobody is going to get that book and verify. One time I used beam my up scotty as a reference.
    "Beam Me Up Scottie: Pippen, Patrick: 9781411609877
    https://www.amazon.com > Beam-Me-Scottie-Patrick-...
    Beam Me Up Scottie is based on the real life story of Patrick Pippen, nephew up basketball legend Scottie Pippen. From streetball to the lifestyles of the ..."


    The last time i edited wikipedia it was the renegade page and telegard page because TJ is trying to rewrite history. i just gave up. edit wars are for losers.

    Wikipedia should only be for entertainment. not to prove a point or be used in an official compacity.

    Real research is libraries is where you find much reliable information.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Monday, November 27, 2023 04:23:25
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Dumas Walker to THE LIZARD MASTER on Sun Nov 26 2023 01:55 pm

    That was just an example. But we don't need statues put up decades after the en
    of the civil war for shitty reasons to keep our history.

    Some were put up long after because immediately after such things were not welcome. Example - any memorials to war dead who were not Union soldiers. Not to individuals, but the whole of the dead from an area. They may have fought on the losing side, but they were someone's fathers/brothers/sons.

    Those people still have living relatives but, hey, it is again not cool to remember them, so let's not.



    also bring back uncle ben and the land of lakes woman and aunt jamima.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to esc on Monday, November 27, 2023 04:28:49
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: esc to Dumas Walker on Sun Nov 26 2023 10:06 pm

    Some were put up long after because immediately after such things were not welcome. Example - any memorials to war dead who were not Union soldiers. Not to individuals, but the whole of the dead from an area. They may have fought on the losing side, but they were someone's fathers/brothers/sons.

    More Americans died in the Civil War than any other war. We don't build statues for our enemies, and we don't care who their families are. That goes for any war we've been in...we don't have statues of Bin Laden or Hitler or

    If you don't learn from your history you are doomed to repeat it.
    the civil war is an important part of history. tearing away statues and editing history books is stupidity.

    anyone else, and they had families. Let's not forget that confederate soldiers literally fought for the right to own human slaves. No, we shouldn't have statues of them, that's goofy.

    That's not really what the civil war was about. that was a small part, but it was due to money as usual with rich white powerful people. also the northern states were not defending the southern states from bandits that were causing hell.

    Anyways, ripping down a statue does no good at all. it's not bringing anybody back, it's not ending anything and it won't appease the fucking retards who get offended for the sake of being offended.
    Most of these people are the ones that spray paint KKK at their own schools or workplaces or hang nooses and get exposed as frauds.
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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANTIR to esc on Monday, November 27, 2023 01:56:00
    esc wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

    Some were put up long after because immediately after such things were
    not welcome. Example - any memorials to war dead who were not Union soldiers. Not to individuals, but the whole of the dead from an area.
    They may have fought on the losing side, but they were someone's fathers/brothers/sons.

    More Americans died in the Civil War than any other war.

    Just to expand that a bit - more Americans died in the Civil War than in
    *ALL* other wars the USA has been involved in.... *COMBINED*. Think
    about that for a second and it sends a shiver.

    We don't build statues for our enemies, and we don't care who their families are.

    In the case of the Civil War, the enemies were *Americans*. I think
    that changes things a little. We *do* care who their families were.
    Well, we *should* care anyway.

    That goes for any war we've been in...we don't have
    statues of Bin Laden or Hitler or anyone else, and they had
    families.

    They were not Americans.

    Let's not forget that confederate soldiers literally
    fought for the right to own human slaves. No, we shouldn't have
    statues of them, that's goofy.

    That really isn't why they fought. Mostly they did so because they were
    told to. The issue of slavery was actually not the main driver for the
    Civil War. A brush-up on American History might be good for you.

    Here's another way of looking at it. What if your family, going back
    6-8 generations, was from South Carolina. Or Virginia. Or Georgia.
    What if your G-G-G-Grandfather had been a Confederate soldier, doing
    what he was told. Do you think your family (after him) would have been
    proud of people like Robert E. Lee? Would they have been in favor of a monument/statue of him? Of course they would have. If you still lived
    in a "Confederate" state today, and were proud of your heritage, and
    your *FAMILY* history, would you perhaps think differently than you do
    at the moment? Those people (today) are just as much an American
    as you are. Ponder that for a few...


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Arelor on Sunday, November 26, 2023 21:03:00
    Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Now you have trainees who will outright refuse to wear the gas mask for practice because it would ruin their hair style, which is exactly what
    you get when you try to bring in people from the wrong demographic
    group.

    Citation?


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  • From The Lizard Master@VERT/NITEEYES to MRO on Monday, November 27, 2023 07:57:50
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: MRO to The Lizard Master on Thu Nov 23 2023 10:08 am

    I wasn't hiding the fact we don't need confederate statues put up decades after the civil war was over. I was pretty clear in that.


    you're not the one to decide if we need statues or not.

    what do you care? did a statue rape you as a child?
    anybody that wants historical statues is stupid.
    suggesting wikipedia and youtube instead is stupid.

    I didn't say any of this, you are a trip. I'll take the loss for not being able to communicate my point I guess.

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  • From The Lizard Master@VERT/NITEEYES to Dumas Walker on Monday, November 27, 2023 08:01:36
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Dumas Walker to THE LIZARD MASTER on Sun Nov 26 2023 12:00 pm

    "Failure" is your word, not mine, which is why I have over-quoted here. Maybe your use of that word is telling?

    I use wikipedia regularly. It is good for many things. The cronological timing of events would be one -- like did this album by this group come out before or after that one? For political and social reasons an event happened, you'd better take it with a grain of salt because anyone indeed can edit it.

    I have edited a few BBS related pages. MRO has admited to editing pages. Would *you* want either of our interpretations to be used as evidence that "history will be okay"?

    Sure, you can click to see who has edited what and for what reasons. There's a full log. It's a great resource and I don't think southern generals will be erased because of statues. Anyone can create a website as well.

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ESC on Monday, November 27, 2023 11:15:00
    More Americans died in the Civil War than any other war. We don't build statue
    for our enemies, and we don't care who their families are. That goes for any w
    we've been in...we don't have statues of Bin Laden or Hitler or anyone else, d they had families. Let's not forget that confederate soldiers literally foug
    for the right to own human slaves. No, we shouldn't have statues of them, tha
    s goofy.

    The difference here is that the "enemy" deaths were also Americans. Also,
    your assumption that the soldiers were fighting for the right to own slaves
    is also false in most cases and shows a lack of understanding of what all
    was going on during that time.

    In my area, a border state, many people were not fighting against the Union until Union soldiers "visited" their area and did something stupid. Then
    they got angry and joined the confederates. Some of them lost
    non-combatant family members to these stupid things. Others, who thought that slavery was not right still joined the confederates because they believed the federal government had overstepped their constitutional rights and/or was
    not providing Southern states with the same service as their Norhtern neighbors.

    We also had MANY cases where an otherwise Union family lost a confederate son.

    So the statue in question, because it was here in this state, was here to remember people like them. It is still here, it just got moved out of Leftyexcrementholeville into another town where people have not lost their minds (and where the local education system is higher rated).

    Maybe we don't need statues, but your statements above do prove that we
    need a better education system, at least in whatever area you attended
    school in.


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Monday, November 27, 2023 10:51:00
    Wikipedia should only be for entertainment. not to prove a point or be used in
    an official compacity.

    Real research is libraries is where you find much reliable information.

    Indeed. People seem to forget about those.


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Monday, November 27, 2023 10:53:00
    also bring back uncle ben and the land of lakes woman and aunt jamima.

    I think the point here was to remove any proof of minority involvement in the founding and/or success of some of those products, and not whatever excuse was used.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to poindexter FORTRAN on Monday, November 27, 2023 13:39:22
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Sun Nov 26 2023 09:03 pm

    Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Now you have trainees who will outright refuse to wear the gas mask for > Ar> practice because it would ruin their hair style, which is exactly what
    you get when you try to bring in people from the wrong demographic group.

    Citation?


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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to poindexter FORTRAN on Tuesday, November 28, 2023 04:59:31
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Sun Nov 26 2023 09:03 pm

    Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Now you have trainees who will outright refuse to wear the gas mask for practice because it would ruin their hair style, which is exactly what you get when you try to bring in people from the wrong demographic group.

    Citation?

    here ya go.
    they got this thing call google.

    https://i.imgur.com/hkCHmwa.png
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to The Lizard Master on Tuesday, November 28, 2023 05:01:47
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: The Lizard Master to MRO on Mon Nov 27 2023 07:57 am

    what do you care? did a statue rape you as a child?
    anybody that wants historical statues is stupid.
    suggesting wikipedia and youtube instead is stupid.

    I didn't say any of this, you are a trip. I'll take the loss for not being able to communicate my point I guess.

    you advocating the removal of historical statues.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to The Lizard Master on Tuesday, November 28, 2023 05:03:28
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: The Lizard Master to Dumas Walker on Mon Nov 27 2023 08:01 am


    Sure, you can click to see who has edited what and for what reasons. There's a full log. It's a great resource and I don't think southern generals will be erased because of statues. Anyone can create a website as well.

    yeah and anybody can make 100 accounts. wikipedia is an online mmorpg.
    anybody that considers it a source of reliable information is sad.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Tuesday, November 28, 2023 05:10:11
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Dumas Walker to ESC on Mon Nov 27 2023 11:15 am

    else, d they had families. Let's not forget that confederate soldiers literally foug
    for the right to own human slaves. No, we shouldn't have statues of them, tha
    s goofy.

    The difference here is that the "enemy" deaths were also Americans. Also, your assumption that the soldiers were fighting for the right to own slaves is also false in most cases and shows a lack of understanding of what all was going on during that time.


    People don't like complicated information.
    It's easier to believe it was a fight of good VS evil.
    There were thousands of factors that divided our country.

    Furthermore, nobody talks about indentured servitude which was just as
    bad and went on longer than slavery.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Tuesday, November 28, 2023 05:11:21
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Mon Nov 27 2023 10:51 am

    Wikipedia should only be for entertainment. not to prove a point or be used in
    an official compacity.

    Real research is libraries is where you find much reliable information.

    Indeed. People seem to forget about those.



    My hometown's library has been reduced to an internet cafe where you can
    see people play hardcore porn. then there's the homeless going around bothering people.
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Tuesday, November 28, 2023 09:48:00
    People don't like complicated information.
    It's easier to believe it was a fight of good VS evil.
    There were thousands of factors that divided our country.

    Furthermore, nobody talks about indentured servitude which was just as
    bad and went on longer than slavery.

    If you do some research into how indentured servitude evolved into slavery
    in the US (specifically in Virgina), it is some interesting reading. One
    of the first persons who successfully argued in court that he owned other people was not white, and that case was then used in future cases as proof
    that slavery was legal.

    Also, there were black soldiers who fought and died in the Civil War... fighting for the South.

    But like you said, that is very complicated information and probably is
    very unliked by most products of our current education system.


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  • From The Lizard Master@VERT/NITEEYES to MRO on Tuesday, November 28, 2023 12:25:17
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: MRO to esc on Mon Nov 27 2023 04:28 am

    That's not really what the civil war was about. that was a small part, but it was due to money as usual with rich white powerful people. also the northern states were not defending the southern states from bandits that were causing hell.

    Maybe they should make statues of the declaration causes? It wasn't a small part, it was the main part.

    https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states

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  • From The Lizard Master@VERT/NITEEYES to Dumas Walker on Tuesday, November 28, 2023 12:27:06
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Mon Nov 27 2023 10:51 am

    Wikipedia should only be for entertainment. not to prove a point or be used in
    an official compacity.

    Real research is libraries is where you find much reliable information.

    Indeed. People seem to forget about those.

    Libraries are way more convienient and informative than statues, you are right.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to The Lizard Master on Tuesday, November 28, 2023 18:35:46
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: The Lizard Master to Dumas Walker on Tue Nov 28 2023 12:27 pm

    Real research is libraries is where you find much reliable information.

    Indeed. People seem to forget about those.

    Libraries are way more convienient and informative than statues, you are right.


    you really have a warped sense of thought, dude.

    I suggest you visit virginia and experience the history of the various locations.
    it might enlighten you.
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  • From The Lizard Master@VERT/NITEEYES to MRO on Wednesday, November 29, 2023 08:38:15
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: MRO to The Lizard Master on Tue Nov 28 2023 06:35 pm

    Real research is libraries is where you find much reliable information.

    Indeed. People seem to forget about those.

    Libraries are way more convienient and informative than statues, you are right.


    you really have a warped sense of thought, dude.

    I suggest you visit virginia and experience the history of the various locations.
    it might enlighten you.

    I have. Haven't spent as much time in Virginia as I have in Georgia/Ten though. Very presumptuous.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Arelor on Tuesday, November 28, 2023 06:23:00
    Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Do you really want me to phone an officer from the Paratroopers Brigade
    so he can post his experiences here? Because he would tell me to get
    lost.

    If you're implying that this was first-hand information and not
    published somewhere, I'd think that was awfully convenient, or should
    have been cited that this was first-hand, non-confirmable information in
    the first place.



    ... This place you're looking for, what makes you so sure it exists?
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to The Lizard Master on Wednesday, November 29, 2023 10:43:54
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: The Lizard Master to MRO on Wed Nov 29 2023 08:38 am

    I suggest you visit virginia and experience the history of the various locations.
    it might enlighten you.

    I have. Haven't spent as much time in Virginia as I have in Georgia/Ten though. Very presumptuous.


    no i was just giving you the benefit of the doubt. now you're even more dense than i imagined.
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to THE LIZARD MASTER on Wednesday, November 29, 2023 11:20:00
    Libraries are way more convienient and informative than statues, you are right.

    Coming across historical sites during my travels is often what makes me research things.

    OTOH, being able to drive by what appears to be just an open field is
    probably a lot more convienent, for someone who doesn't want to be bothered
    by things that might make them learn, than it is to drive by it and see
    some monument or historical marker that might hurt their feelings.

    Here in my town we have a large statue to a man named Gobbels. In his
    early political career, he shot and killed someone and pretty much got away with it. Later in his career, he used his position as President of the
    State Senate to manipulate things in order to change the results of an
    election and have the actual Governor-elect run out of the state.

    Now, I don't think we should have such a statue but, if you do some
    research, the story gets even more interesting.

    This was around 1900. While states south of here had settled into their
    Jim Crow ways, Kentucky had started electing Republicans and was more progressive than their neighbors. The Democrats, being mostly Dixiecrats
    at the time, really did not like this.

    Gobbels was a Democrat but not a Dixiecrat. So his party went along with
    what he was up to in order to wrestle power away from the Republicans.
    Once he was named Governor-elect, all Hell broke loose, and he ultimately
    was shot and eventually died.

    The Republican SOS was blamed and tried for it. However, Gobbels didn't
    die immediately and died claiming he'd been poisoned. There is a show that sometimes airs on our local PBS network called "damn bad oysters" (his last words) that goes into great detail about his life, and also the evidence
    that he could have been correct about what killed him.

    Because he stole the election, the Lt. Governor, an ardent Dixiecrat, became Governor. Something I am sure Gobbels didn't intend but that did happen. Our state quickly fell inline with the rest of our Jim Crow neighbors, and was
    set back about 60 years in the process.

    So, while I don't think we should have a statue that commemorates a
    murderer who stole an election and was eventually murdered himself, if it
    was not there I probably wouldn't have bothered to learn anything about how
    our state wound up like it did. I am willing to live with the statue being there so long as it might cause others to research what happened then.yy


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to poindexter FORTRAN on Wednesday, November 29, 2023 16:29:21
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Tue Nov 28 2023 06:23 am

    If you're implying that this was first-hand information and not
    published somewhere, I'd think that was awfully convenient, or should
    have been cited that this was first-hand, non-confirmable information in
    the first place.

    I said all of this was hearsay from talking to actual officers early on in the thread.

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  • From unc0nnected@VERT/BTTMLSS to Dumas Walker on Sunday, December 03, 2023 21:58:00
    Wikipedia should only be for entertainment. not to prove a point or be u in
    an official compacity.

    Real research is libraries is where you find much reliable information.

    Indeed. People seem to forget about those.

    They have done countless studies on this, when compared to encyclopedias and written references Wikipedia is more accurate more of the time. Because it's on paper or in a Library people assume the information or the people who
    wrote it are some how less flawed.

    For every person looking to 'erase' history on wikipedia I would imagine
    there are 10 who proudly hang a confederate flag in their front yard watching those pages like a hawk ready to undo any tampering.

    Fun experiment, go and try to edit any page of even moderate importance with something subtle that changes the narrative and see how long it stays up for.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
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  • From unc0nnected@VERT/BTTMLSS to MRO on Sunday, December 03, 2023 22:03:00
    yeah and anybody can make 100 accounts. wikipedia is an online mmorpg. anybody that considers it a source of reliable information is sad.

    Scientific, historical and other societies have been digging into Wikipedia
    for almost 20 years now to test just how reliable it is and the answer
    usually comes back the same, it's 90x larger than Brittanica and more
    accurate, more up to date and less biased on average.

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/evidence-suggests-wikipedia-is-accurate-and-rel iable-when-are-we-going-to-start-taking-it-seriously-20220913-p5bhl3.html

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to unc0nnected on Monday, December 04, 2023 07:08:59
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: unc0nnected to Dumas Walker on Sun Dec 03 2023 09:58 pm

    Indeed. People seem to forget about those.

    They have done countless studies on this, when compared to encyclopedias

    and
    written references Wikipedia is more accurate more of the time. Because

    who has?

    written references Wikipedia is more accurate more of the time. Because it's on paper or in a Library people assume the information or the people who
    wrote it are some how less flawed.

    yeah because written material is less flawed. it's vetted and curated by professionals.

    not retards.

    For every person looking to 'erase' history on wikipedia I would imagine there are 10 who proudly hang a confederate flag in their front yard watching those pages like a hawk ready to undo any tampering.

    those people are easy to deal with if you're smart enough. the easiest way is to become one of them. befriend them and then they will defend you and whatever you do.

    Fun experiment, go and try to edit any page of even moderate importance with something subtle that changes the narrative and see how long it stays up for.

    already done it before.
    wikipedia is not a notable source of information. it's sad that people believe it is.
    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to unc0nnected on Monday, December 04, 2023 07:10:38
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: unc0nnected to MRO on Sun Dec 03 2023 10:03 pm

    yeah and anybody can make 100 accounts. wikipedia is an online mmorpg. anybody that considers it a source of reliable information is sad.

    Scientific, historical and other societies have been digging into Wikipedia for almost 20 years now to test just how reliable it is and the answer usually comes back the same, it's 90x larger than Brittanica and more

    the reliable parts are those stolen from brittanica and other notable sources.

    i'm not sure if it's 90% larger, but if it is, it's probably because it's polluted with bullshit articles about everything.

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/evidence-suggests-wikipedia-is-accurate-and- rel iable-when-are-we-going-to-start-taking-it-seriously-20220913-p5bhl3.html

    no thanks.
    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to unc0nnected on Monday, December 04, 2023 09:26:33
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: unc0nnected to Dumas Walker on Sun Dec 03 2023 09:58 pm

    Real research is libraries is where you find much reliable information.

    Indeed. People seem to forget about those.

    They have done countless studies on this, when compared to encyclopedias and written references Wikipedia is more accurate more of the time. Because it's on paper or in a Library people assume the information or the people who wrote it are some how less flawed.

    I've wondered about this too. Wikipedia might not be perfect, but it can be corrected in real-time.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Kingoffrogs@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Monday, December 04, 2023 12:20:47
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Nightfox to unc0nnected on Mon Dec 04 2023 09:26 am

    Yeah the articles on wikipedia regarding modern conflicts such as the Israeli-hamas conflict are fairly comprehensive, and have a large body of people actively working to update the article at all time of the day.
    ---
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to unc0nnected on Monday, December 04, 2023 14:22:38
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: unc0nnected to Dumas Walker on Sun Dec 03 2023 09:58 pm

    They have done countless studies on this, when compared to encyclopedias and > written references Wikipedia is more accurate more of the time. Because it' > on paper or in a Library people assume the information or the people who
    wrote it are some how less flawed.


    Wikipedia is not a primary source of information, but it on encyclopedias and written references. At least the official stance is you cannot post anything unless it comes from what they deem a reputable source.

    I don't count myself as a Wikipedia supporter because what they deem a valid source is a voluble thing. If they dislike your softare project, the software'sdocumentation is not a valid source of information to use as a reference for
    the project's goals or hardware requirinments (!).

    But it gets better. If they dislike the project enough then they won't accept an article in Linux Magazine Pro from a third party author.

    Wikipedia is nice for finding general information about a subject (such as "What is X?") and finding listings (such as the titles of the songs on some albums). It is also nice for gathering some trivia. It should, however, not be taken as something different from an encyclopedia put together by diferent people who have their own phobias.

    --
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to unc0nnected on Monday, December 04, 2023 14:29:12
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: unc0nnected to MRO on Sun Dec 03 2023 10:03 pm

    Scientific, historical and other societies have been digging into Wikipedia for almost 20 years now to test just how reliable it is and the answer usually comes back the same, it's 90x larger than Brittanica and more accurate, more up to date and less biased on average.


    Refutation follows:

    https://corporate.britannica.com/britannica_nature_response.pdf

    --
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Tuesday, December 05, 2023 08:37:51
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Nightfox to unc0nnected on Mon Dec 04 2023 09:26 am

    encyclopedias and written references Wikipedia is more accurate more of the time. Because it's on paper or in a Library people assume the information or the people who wrote it are some how less flawed.

    I've wondered about this too. Wikipedia might not be perfect, but it can be corrected in real-time.


    'correction' is in the eye of the person who edits it. that's what the problem is. at best, wikipedia is accurate due to it's plagorism of more reliable sources.
    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Kingoffrogs on Tuesday, December 05, 2023 08:38:10
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Kingoffrogs to Nightfox on Mon Dec 04 2023 12:20 pm

    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Nightfox to unc0nnected on Mon Dec 04 2023 09:26 am

    Yeah the articles on wikipedia regarding modern conflicts such as the Israeli-hamas conflict are fairly comprehensive, and have a large body of people actively working to update the article at all time of the day.

    that's why i call it a mmorpg.
    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Arelor on Tuesday, December 05, 2023 08:43:38
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Arelor to unc0nnected on Mon Dec 04 2023 02:29 pm

    Re: Re: going to war
    By: unc0nnected to MRO on Sun Dec 03 2023 10:03 pm

    Scientific, historical and other societies have been digging into Wikipedia for almost 20 years now to test just how reliable it is and the answer usually comes back the same, it's 90x larger than Brittanica and more accurate, more up to date and less biased on average.


    Refutation follows:

    https://corporate.britannica.com/britannica_nature_response.pdf


    the thing is, wikipedia has too much of the human element in it.
    people get attached to articles and subjects like they belong to them.
    they get emotional. People taint the information to their liking or out of spite.

    There are people who have worked their way up into the wikipedia ranks by building friendships and kissing ass. they have their own agendas that they and their friends follow.
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Tuesday, December 05, 2023 09:04:10
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Dec 05 2023 08:37 am

    problem is. at best, wikipedia is accurate due to it's plagorism of more reliable sources.

    Plagarism? I remember Wikipedia saying it's against the rule to post original information on Wikipedia, and anything you put there must have a citation of another resource. Basically, Wikipedia's rules are that it's to be used as a reference based on other sources. I guess you could call that "plagarism" but I don't know if that's an accurate term.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to NIGHTFOX on Tuesday, December 05, 2023 09:52:00
    They have done countless studies on this, when compared to encyclopedias and written references Wikipedia is more accurate more of the time. Because it's on paper or in a Library people assume the information or th
    people who wrote it are some how less flawed.

    I've wondered about this too. Wikipedia might not be perfect, but it can be co
    rected in real-time.

    It can also be screwed up in real time.

    I cannot speak for most of them, but back in the 1980's you could by a
    "year book" from World Book that included updates to any articles that
    already existed as well as new articles for new events, in order to keep
    your set updated.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Adolescence - the time between puberty and adultery.

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ARELOR on Tuesday, December 05, 2023 09:53:00
    Wikipedia is nice for finding general information about a subject (such as "What is X?") and finding listings (such as the titles of the songs on some albums). It is also nice for gathering some trivia.

    Pretty much what I use it for. +1.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Objects in taglines are closer than they appear.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Tuesday, December 05, 2023 22:45:22
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Tue Dec 05 2023 09:04 am

    Re: Re: going to war
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Dec 05 2023 08:37 am

    problem is. at best, wikipedia is accurate due to it's plagorism of more reliable sources.

    Plagarism? I remember Wikipedia saying it's against the rule to post original information on Wikipedia, and anything you put there must have a

    man are you gullable.

    citation of another resource. Basically, Wikipedia's rules are that it's to be used as a reference based on other sources. I guess you could call that "plagarism" but I don't know if that's an accurate term.

    their content is stolen from other sources. that's basically how it all started and keeps going except for minor edits.

    furthermore you can post info without references. someone puts a 'citation needed' tag but you can delete that at at time when the person does not notice or care to police it.

    damn, you people really believe in wikipedia, don't you. that's sad.
    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Wednesday, December 06, 2023 08:37:44
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Dec 05 2023 10:45 pm

    problem is. at best, wikipedia is accurate due to it's plagorism of
    more reliable sources.

    Plagarism? I remember Wikipedia saying it's against the rule to post
    original information on Wikipedia, and anything you put there must have a

    man are you gullable.

    I was just stating a rule they have. How is that being gullable? It doesn't necessarily mean everyone follows the rule.

    furthermore you can post info without references. someone puts a 'citation needed' tag but you can delete that at at time when the person does not notice or care to police it.

    Yeah, I've seen wrong information on Wikipedia, and articles saying 'citation needed', and I tend to be skeptical of those articles.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Alonzo@VERT/UNMARKED to esc on Wednesday, December 13, 2023 11:11:02
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: esc to Dumas Walker on Sun Nov 26 2023 10:06 pm

    More Americans died in the Civil War than any other war. We don't build statues for our enemies, and we don't care who their families are. That goes for any war we've been in...we don't have statues of Bin Laden or Hitler or anyone else, and they had families. Let's not forget that confederate soldiers literally fought for the right to own human slaves. No, we shouldn't have statues of them, that's goofy.

    You are wrong about many things here. First of all, the majority of people living in the south did not have slaves and had no interest in slavery. That's not what the war was about. It was more about wanting to have more control over local laws and taxes.

    Also, people in the south were Americans and they had relatives living in the north. Many families had family members fighting on both sides. Some fought for the north and some fought for the south. They weren't anti-American, they were anti-government, just like many people living in the United States today and the only way they could see they would achieve equal control was to secede from the union.

    Plus, you build statues to remember history - something that young people are very bad at. Many kids (thanks to a distorted liberal education) can't even tell you what the capital of our country is or how many states we have. And to forget history is to repeat it. It's important to learn from the country's mistakes.

    ---
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  • From Hustler@VERT/DMINE to Alonzo on Wednesday, December 13, 2023 22:01:58
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Alonzo to esc on Wed Dec 13 2023 11:11 am

    are very bad at. Many kids (thanks to a distorted liberal education) can't even tell you what the capital of our country is or how many states we have. And to forget history is to repeat it. It's important to learn from the country's mistakes.

    I have no idea what they teach kids in school these days. I don't remeber by kids having a history class or what history they were taught? Maybe they were teaching them my generations era 60's - 70's? I know they knew who JFK was and Martin Luther King. But civil war? No way. BTW. Even though the south lost the slaves were still not free. It took many many years later to abolish slavery. The Civil War was just a starting point. The real question is when were blacks treated as equals?
    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Alonzo on Thursday, December 14, 2023 08:11:50
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Alonzo to esc on Wed Dec 13 2023 11:11 am


    You are wrong about many things here. First of all, the majority of people living in the south did not have slaves and had no interest in slavery. That's not what the war was about. It was more about wanting to have more control over local laws and taxes.

    Also, people in the south were Americans and they had relatives living in the north. Many families had family members fighting on both sides. Some fought for the north and some fought for the south. They weren't anti-American, they were anti-government, just like many people living in the United States today and the only way they could see they would achieve equal control was to secede from the union.

    Plus, you build statues to remember history - something that young people are very bad at. Many kids (thanks to a distorted liberal education) can't even tell you what the capital of our country is or how many states we have. And to forget history is to repeat it. It's important to learn from the country's mistakes.

    people are also generally dumb. the civil war was very complicated. it's easier to teach that it was good guys vs bad guys and it was all about slavery.

    The north fought to stop the emancipation. the south fought because they were being shafted by the govt and they were sick of it.
    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Hustler on Thursday, December 14, 2023 08:18:17
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Hustler to Alonzo on Wed Dec 13 2023 10:01 pm

    I have no idea what they teach kids in school these days. I don't remeber by kids having a history class or what history they were taught? Maybe they were teaching them my generations era 60's - 70's? I know they knew who JFK was and Martin Luther King. But civil war? No way. BTW. Even though the

    yeah they had a history class. there are state laws that mandate what classes need to be taught.
    ---
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  • From Phigan@VERT/TACOPRON to Alonzo on Thursday, December 14, 2023 11:26:53
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Alonzo to esc on Wed Dec 13 2023 11:11 am

    forget history is to repeat it. It's important to learn from the country's mistakes.

    You know, we didn't have toilets for like a thousand years just because some idiots decided they wanted nothing to do with a particular civilization and completely burried all evidence of their toilet tech.

    What would happen if, at the height of cancel culture, there was a rumor that the inventor of the toilet was a racist and a rapist? :D

    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Phigan on Friday, December 15, 2023 07:02:04
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Phigan to Alonzo on Thu Dec 14 2023 11:26 am

    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Alonzo to esc on Wed Dec 13 2023 11:11 am

    forget history is to repeat it. It's important to learn from the country's mistakes.

    You know, we didn't have toilets for like a thousand years just because some idiots decided they wanted nothing to do with a particular civilization and completely burried all evidence of their toilet tech.

    What would happen if, at the height of cancel culture, there was a rumor that the inventor of the toilet was a racist and a rapist? :D

    james t crapper was a racist! rip down all the toilets!
    ---
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  • From The Lizard Master@VERT/NITEEYES to MRO on Friday, December 15, 2023 09:00:15
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: MRO to Alonzo on Thu Dec 14 2023 08:11 am

    people are also generally dumb. the civil war was very complicated. it's easier to teach that it was good guys vs bad guys and it was all about slavery.

    The north fought to stop the emancipation. the south fought because they were being shafted by the govt and they were sick of it.

    lolz

    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to The Lizard Master on Friday, December 15, 2023 10:09:43
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: The Lizard Master to MRO on Fri Dec 15 2023 09:00 am

    Re: Re: going to war
    By: MRO to Alonzo on Thu Dec 14 2023 08:11 am

    people are also generally dumb. the civil war was very complicated.
    it's easier to teach that it was good guys vs bad guys and it was all about slavery.

    The north fought to stop the emancipation. the south fought because they were being shafted by the govt and they were sick of it.

    lolz

    lolz all you want. that's how it went down.
    ---
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to PHIGAN on Friday, December 15, 2023 09:11:00
    What would happen if, at the height of cancel culture, there was a rumor that the inventor of the toilet was a racist and a rapist? :D

    I have a feeling that some of them would be willing to ignore it to keep
    their toilets, but we would have had some wackos (probably the same ones
    that claim that only right-wingers are wackos) that would have started
    going in their backyards (or other people's).

    Come to think of it, maybe that is why so many people crap in the streets
    in SF??


    * SLMR 2.1a * SO WHO NAMED YOU "TASTE POLICE" ANYWAY?

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  • From Kurisu@VERT/FINALZON to Phigan on Friday, December 15, 2023 14:58:12
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Phigan to Alonzo on Thu Dec 14 2023 11:26 am

    You know, we didn't have toilets for like a thousand years just because some idiots decided they wanted nothing to do with a particular civilization and completely burried all evidence of their toilet tech.

    They would most certainly come up with a reason to still use them. Remember, these are the same people who won't ditch Harry Potter even though Rowling is a transphobe, but they sure as hell boycott anything anyone else "problematic" creates.

    Can't separate art from the artist until it's convenient for them to....

    /z
    _____
    www.xadara.com

    ---
    Synchronet final-zone.net
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Kurisu on Friday, December 15, 2023 21:15:00
    Hello Kurisu!

    Remember, these are the same people who won't ditch Harry
    Potter even though Rowling is a transphobe, but they sure
    as hell boycott anything anyone else "problematic" creates.

    It is a shame when having an opinion about <something> makes a
    person labelled as a <something>phobe.

    --- OpenXP 5.0.57
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Kurisu on Saturday, December 16, 2023 05:11:48
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Kurisu to Phigan on Fri Dec 15 2023 02:58 pm


    They would most certainly come up with a reason to still use them. Remember, these are the same people who won't ditch Harry Potter even though Rowling is a transphobe, but they sure as hell boycott anything anyone else "problematic" creates.

    what the fuck is a transphobe.

    someone that believes men cant get periods?

    she said dumbledore was gay so there's that.
    ---
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  • From Kurisu@VERT/FINALZON to Ogg on Saturday, December 16, 2023 06:10:11
    Re: going to war
    By: Ogg to Kurisu on Fri Dec 15 2023 09:15 pm

    It is a shame when having an opinion about <something> makes a
    person labelled as a <something>phobe.

    Quite the example of many peoples very black-or-white thinking. There can't be any nuance, it immediately has to be this extremely strong buzzword we've chosen and can't be anything else.

    Ironically that serves my point just as well, because if they treat her opinion as being that level of severity, then the fact they, in this one case, separate art from the artist means they are using one hell of a double standard.
    _____
    www.xadara.com

    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Kurisu on Saturday, December 16, 2023 09:08:10
    Re: going to war
    By: Kurisu to Ogg on Sat Dec 16 2023 06:10 am

    Re: going to war
    By: Ogg to Kurisu on Fri Dec 15 2023 09:15 pm

    It is a shame when having an opinion about <something> makes a
    person labelled as a <something>phobe.

    Quite the example of many peoples very black-or-white thinking. There can't be any nuance, it immediately has to be this extremely strong buzzword we've chosen and can't be anything else.

    Ironically that serves my point just as well, because if they treat her opinion as being that level of severity, then the fact they, in this one case, separate art from the artist means they are using one hell of a double standard.

    There's that and there's another thing they do if you pay attention to mainstream media.

    If someone goes against the agenda they say they are crazy.

    Like Kanye West is totally biopolar yet everything he said is actually true if you step aside and examine current media and look at people who are against what you can call liberal agendas or ACTUALLY just the agenda of the white guys that run everything in the world.

    The media sets the pace to what people should be thinking, and eventually half or more of the people follow along.

    Look at Elon Musk. He bought twitter which was eventually exposed as a propaganda machine. Twitter was a company that was left leaning and one sided. Its job was to squash and shut up the other side. When he exposed it and even showed proof to this he was the evil bad guy and he's oh so crazy.

    Then you go on facebook or instagram and see what looks like people commenting following with the global opinion of things. There's real people but then there's also tons of fucking bots starting the comments and keeping things moving.

    It's really sad what society has become. We are destroying ourselves with technology and hate. Which sucks, because those are 2 things i really love :D
    ---
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to THE LIZARD MASTER on Saturday, December 16, 2023 09:53:00
    people are also generally dumb. the civil war was very complicated. it's easier to teach that it was good guys vs bad guys and it was all about slavery.

    The north fought to stop the emancipation. the south fought because they were being shafted by the govt and they were sick of it.

    lolz

    He isn't far off. As long as there was no emancipation in the South, most
    of the new land to the west was only open to settlement by Northerners,
    which gave them additional opportunity that many in the South didn't have. Later, many Northerners also were not too thrilled by the influx of former slaves, or Southerners in general, into Northern cities.

    So the usual generalizations of good vs. bad really are pretty dumb.


    * SLMR 2.1a * no, I don't have a graduate degree - why do you ask?

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to KURISU on Saturday, December 16, 2023 09:55:00
    They would most certainly come up with a reason to still use them. Remember, these are the same people who won't ditch Harry Potter even though Rowling is transphobe, but they sure as hell boycott anything anyone else "problematic" creates.

    Can't separate art from the artist until it's convenient for them to....

    They continue to be Harry Potter fans because that allows they to escape
    into the fantasy world. So even thought the author may not approve of
    their identifying as something they aren't, the books give them an outlet.

    If she were a writer of some other form of fiction that was more reality
    based, she'd be as cancelled as Mullberry Street.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Penny for your thoughts? SURE, Do I get Change?

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to OGG on Saturday, December 16, 2023 10:01:00
    Remember, these are the same people who won't ditch Harry
    Potter even though Rowling is a transphobe, but they sure
    as hell boycott anything anyone else "problematic" creates.

    It is a shame when having an opinion about <something> makes a
    person labelled as a <something>phobe.

    Indeed. If that is what someone wants to do or, better yet, if they are
    really gender dysphoric, then so be it. I can accept that is what might be right *for them*. However, acceptance is not enough for some... if you don't "celebrate" it, or accept that trans women are "better" than biological
    women, or support biological men playing women's sports, or support children being exposed to it, you are a "phobe."

    Basically, applying any real logic to it makes you a "phobe."


    * SLMR 2.1a * Go softly....it's dark out there

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    Synchronet CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Hustler@VERT/REALITY to Phigan on Wednesday, December 20, 2023 12:42:44
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Phigan to Alonzo on Thu Dec 14 2023 11:26 am

    You know, we didn't have toilets for like a thousand years just because some

    What would happen if, at the height of cancel culture, there was a rumor that the inventor of the toilet was a racist and a rapist? :D

    They'd be shiitin all over each other. :-)


    |12HusTler
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    Synchronet .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Unc0nnected@VERT/REALITY to Arelor on Sunday, March 24, 2024 18:04:18
    Re: Re: going to war
    By: Arelor to unc0nnected on Mon Dec 04 2023 02:29 pm

    Refutation follows:

    https://corporate.britannica.com/britannica_nature_response.pdf

    Thanks for posting, took a bit of a hiatus from the boards but wanted to make you to share my appreciation.

    ...Do you know what this dream means?
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    Synchronet .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.