• ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lie

    From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Zager And Evans on Sunday, March 31, 2019 13:42:54
    Hey Zager And Evans!

    If Fidonet makes it to 2525 then this potentially could be a real message. Let's see how far it goes today.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Maurice Kinal on Sunday, March 31, 2019 11:51:06
    If Fidonet makes it to 2525 then this potentially could be a real message. Let's see how far it goes today.

    Well I'll be.. a blast from the future!

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Alan Ianson on Sunday, March 31, 2019 19:00:39
    Hey Alan!

    Well I'll be.. a blast from the future!

    Heh, heh. Thank you and I note that the 9 nibble hex string didn't cause any grief, nevermind the bogus obsolete FTN datetime string.

    date --date=@$(printf "%d" 0x413ed49c0) = Mon Jan 1 12:00:00 UTC 2525

    The ftn datetime stamp could easily be 2025 but that will still put it in the future. The above is the 'correct' datetime.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Maurice Kinal on Sunday, March 31, 2019 12:36:48
    Heh, heh. Thank you and I note that the 9 nibble hex string didn't cause any grief, nevermind the bogus obsolete FTN datetime string.

    Nope, it looked ok here albeit in the future.

    date --date=@$(printf "%d" 0x413ed49c0) = Mon Jan 1 12:00:00 UTC 2525

    The ftn datetime stamp could easily be 2025 but that will still put it in the future. The above is the 'correct' datetime.

    Yes it is, looks like you are about 7 hours ahead of me.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Alan Ianson on Sunday, March 31, 2019 20:00:44
    Hey Alan!

    Yes it is, looks like you are about 7 hours ahead of me.

    How about on the original (MSGID: 2:280/464.113 413ed49c0)? What is the ftn msgHeader's datetime stamp say? The virgin one I sent claims "01 Jan 25 12:00:00" which is just shy of six years from now ... assuming 2025 that is, which of course is wrong. I noticed on a couple online so-called BBS's it was altered to today's date but that might be just for display purposes. If the header datetime got altered then I have no issue with it given that I figure it
    is bogus even when correct which of course it never is, was or ever will be for all time.

    It would be nice to know.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Maurice Kinal on Sunday, March 31, 2019 13:34:04
    How about on the original (MSGID: 2:280/464.113 413ed49c0)? What is the ftn msgHeader's datetime stamp say? The virgin one I sent claims "01 Jan 25 12:00:00" which is just shy of six years from now ... assuming 2025 that is,
    which of course is wrong. I noticed on a couple online so-called BBS's it was
    altered to today's date but that might be just for display purposes. If the
    header datetime got altered then I have no issue with it given that I figure i >is bogus even when correct which of course it never is, was or ever will be fo
    all time.

    It would be nice to know.

    The message header here says 1st January, 2025 at 12:00.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Alan Ianson on Sunday, March 31, 2019 21:00:02
    Hey Alan!

    The message header here says 1st January, 2025 at 12:00.

    Close enough. Thanks!

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Sunday, March 31, 2019 18:26:26
    On 2025 Jan 01 12:00:00, you wrote to Zager And Evans:

    Hey Zager And Evans!

    If Fidonet makes it to 2525 then this potentially could be a real message.

    do you mean 2025? that's the date in the header...

    Let's see how far it goes today.

    most tossers do allow for forwarded dated posts else those from Oz would be removed for being in the future... i'm not aware of any that have any filters on forward dated posts like they do for old posts...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... I'd buy a turnip of my very own, out in the countryside...
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to mark lewis on Sunday, March 31, 2019 23:40:41
    Hey mark!

    do you mean 2025? that's the date in the header...

    Excellent, except it of course that it is wrong ... in more ways than one.

    I see in your REPLY no issues with my 9 nibble hex string. That tells the true
    tale.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Monday, April 01, 2019 11:22:28
    On 2019 Mar 31 23:40:40, you wrote to me:

    do you mean 2025? that's the date in the header...

    Excellent, except it of course that it is wrong ... in more ways than one.

    i don't know where it got changed if it was and isn't just a display anomaly...

    I see in your REPLY no issues with my 9 nibble hex string. That tells
    the true tale.

    since the MSGID is simply a string, it only indicates there's no problem in the
    path your message took to my systems... there will be problems on systems that
    break the string out into individual parts, though... especially those that only allocate 8 bytes for the serial number portion of the string...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to mark lewis on Monday, April 01, 2019 16:25:46
    Hey mark!

    i don't know where it got changed if it was and isn't just a
    display anomaly...

    It looks like it didn't get changed although I cannot confirm that. I'd need to put the node back online to be able to verify that. The real 'problem' is that the ftn datetime strips the century out of the date and it was originally done here. Technically you should be seeing that datetime stamp in the msgHeader.

    especially those that only allocate 8 bytes for the serial number
    portion of the string

    I'd like to see an example. From what I've observed over the years the MSGID causes more problems when it isn't there than how many nibbles there are in the
    serial number portion. Just for fun I thought it would be interesting to see what happens if I piggy-backed a unixtime from the year 2525 on it not unlike a
    certain nameless software corrupts the address portion of the MSGID. Nothing to worry about since I doubt I'll be around in 2106 and I already have 2036 and
    beyond covered with an 8 nibble unixtime. As far as the ftn msgHeader datetime, that isn't really an issue until around 2080 or so when stored messages from the +1980's start looking like new postings, probably from the embedded devices you brought up in a previous message.

    Fidonet robots run amock in the 2080's. :::evil grin:::

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Maurice Kinal on Monday, April 01, 2019 19:11:27
    Hi Maurice,

    On 2019-04-01 16:25:46, you wrote to mark lewis:

    I'd like to see an example. From what I've observed over the years
    the MSGID causes more problems when it isn't there than how many
    nibbles there are in the serial number portion.

    You might want to test what happens if only the first or last nibble of the 9 nibble ID changes in a new message compared to the first. I won't be surprised if there will be some false positive dupes detected along the route... But how are you going to find out if that happens in some corner of fidonet. You can hardley check every node in fidonet...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Maurice Kinal on Monday, April 01, 2019 10:31:54
    It looks like it didn't get changed although I cannot confirm that. I'd need to put the node back online to be able to verify that.

    If you ever get the bug it would be a simple matter of uncommenting your node in makenl.ctl and changing any details that need changing.

    Just sayin' :)

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Wilfred van Velzen on Monday, April 01, 2019 17:40:58
    Hallo Wilfred!

    But how are you going to find out if that happens in some corner
    of fidonet.

    I cannot. The best I can do is to put the node back online which is served 'locally' or another point(s) in different parts of the world and then see where they show up ... or not as the case might be. When I did this in the past a number of messages did go missing but it had nothing to do with MSGID's ... except in one case where there was no MSGID and it didn't go missing but created a bunch of actual dupes to be spit out of questionable setups. That is
    why I always put a MSGID in my messages.

    You can hardley check every node in fidonet...

    Nor am I planning to. I am satisfied that if nothing else at least it found it's way back to BC despite the wrong date(s) and a non-compliant MSGID that actually contains very useful information beyond just being unique.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Alan Ianson on Monday, April 01, 2019 17:52:25
    Hey Alan!

    Just sayin' :)

    That might just fly. What was the node number's name again? Little Mikey's Brain? As far as I am concerned nothing needs to be changed and the IP address
    is exactly as it was.

    I'll get back to you later today.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Maurice Kinal on Monday, April 01, 2019 11:18:30
    That might just fly. What was the node number's name again? Little Mikey's
    Brain? As far as I am concerned nothing needs to be changed and the IP addres
    is exactly as it was.

    This is what 153/7001 looks like in the ctl file..

    ,7001,Little_Mikey's_Brain,Ladysmith_BC,Maurice_Kinal,-Unpublished-,300,CM,MO, INA:184.69.113.90,IBN

    If that is OK, I'll just uncomment it, if it needs changes let me know.

    I'll get back to you later today.

    I'll be heading out to work shortly but I'll keep an eye out. :)

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Nancy Backus@1:229/452 to Maurice Kinal on Wednesday, April 03, 2019 18:19:02
    Quoting Maurice Kinal to Zager And Evans on 01-Jan-2025 12:00 <=-

    Hey Zager And Evans!

    If Fidonet makes it to 2525 then this potentially could be a real
    message. Let's see how far it goes today.

    Interestingly, in this packet I got this message twice... the first time
    with the 2025 date in the header (see the quote header above), and the
    second time with the actual date of 31Mar2019. Other packets, some it
    showed up with the 2025 date, and at least one, only with the 31Mar2019.

    (just a little late with working through the packets, as often the case)

    ttyl neb

    ... Forecast for tonight: Darkness..

    --- EzyBlueWave V3.00 01FB001F
    * Origin: Tiny's BBS - http://www.tinysbbs.com (1:229/452)
  • From Nancy Backus@1:229/452 to Maurice Kinal on Wednesday, April 03, 2019 18:25:00
    Quoting Maurice Kinal to Alan Ianson on 31-Mar-2019 20:00 <=-

    How about on the original (MSGID: 2:280/464.113 413ed49c0)? What is
    the ftn msgHeader's datetime stamp say? The virgin one I sent claims
    "01 Jan 25 12:00:00" which is just shy of six years from now ...
    assuming 2025 that is, which of course is wrong. I noticed on a
    couple online so-called BBS's it was altered to today's date but that might be just for display purposes. If the header datetime got
    altered then I have no issue with it given that I figure it is bogus
    even when correct which of course it never is, was or ever will be for
    all time.
    It would be nice to know.

    I can't see anything but the displayed date/time... don't get to see the
    MSGID line, especially offline, which is how I read the messages.... ;)

    ttyl neb

    ... Things never "hopeless". "Imminently disastrous" might be better.

    --- EzyBlueWave V3.00 01FB001F
    * Origin: Tiny's BBS - http://www.tinysbbs.com (1:229/452)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001.2989 to Nancy Backus on Sunday, April 07, 2019 00:25:39
    Hey Nancy!

    Interestingly, in this packet I got this message twice... the
    first time with the 2025 date in the header (see the quote header
    above), and the second time with the actual date of 31Mar2019.

    Interesting. I am still waiting for it to arrive at the Brain along wirh a couple other test netmails, with or without 'actual' dates, whatever that really means. The so-called 'actual' date of that message was 2525 and the 2025 was the product of the two digit year that the FTSC is so fond of. Also noticed I am missing a couple other messages that have nothing to do with me ... or you for that matter.

    (just a little late with working through the packets, as often
    the case)

    Me too but in my case I delayed replying to this message in case the original showed up as well as tweaking what is now the official platform for messages following a specific path. Looks like I found a job for the raspberry pi thingy.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Cybertoasts of note:
    2020-01-01 is 269 days from now and falls on a Wednesday.
    2024-11-05 is 2039 days from now and falls on a Tuesday.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.2989)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Maurice Kinal on Sunday, April 07, 2019 01:13:16
    Hallo Maurice!

    Looks like I found a job for the raspberry pi thingy.
    Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.2989)

    I like it. However I was first.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Maurice Kinal on Sunday, April 07, 2019 01:35:19
    Hey Maurice!

    I like it. However I was first.

    In more ways than one considering this is a reply to a message that is currently MIA here at the Brain, even though I can see the little board that created it on my desk.

    Good thing for backups eh?

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Maurice Kinal on Saturday, April 06, 2019 18:53:08
    In more ways than one considering this is a reply to a message that is currently MIA here at the Brain, even though I can see the little board that created it on my desk.

    I wonder what happened to it?

    Good thing for backups eh?

    Sometimes yes. I'm going to turn off my tossing for a few minutes so I can grab
    some inbound .pkt files for inspection. Can you post something from the EuroPoint? That way I should recieve some inbounds that should tell us what is happening.

    I may have to send them to you and/or mark lewis since I'm not sure what all the binary stuff is in those pkts.. :)

    OK, tosser off in 3.. 2.. 1..

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Alan Ianson on Sunday, April 07, 2019 02:01:18
    Hallo Alan!

    Can you post something from the EuroPoint?

    Sure thing. Here is a reply to your msg "MSGID: 1:153/757.0 0911e3e5" requesting something from the EuroPoint. As usual there is at least one line (this one) that is really long. Much longer than 80 characters. In fact there
    are 272 characters up to this character ->.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001.2989 to Maurice Kinal on Sunday, April 07, 2019 02:23:49
    Hey Maurice!

    In fact there are 272 characters up to this character ->.

    I can confirm that as I am looking at it from the pkt I recieved from this path; "PATH: 280/464 154/10", which is the entire reason for CanadARM's existance.

    Speaking of firsts, you weren't first. The first point here was either/or/both
    points off Janis and/or Carol back around the turn of the century, maybe sooner. When both were running the project was called "Das Both" but then the US Navy torpedoed one of them. :::sigh:::

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.2989)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Maurice Kinal on Saturday, April 06, 2019 20:01:46
    Speaking of firsts, you weren't first. The first point here was either/or/bot
    points off Janis and/or Carol back around the turn of the century, maybe
    sooner. When both were running the project was called "Das Both" but then the
    US Navy torpedoed one of them. :::sigh:::

    I have copies of this message arriving from 153/7715 and 153/250. It appears to
    me that the one coming from 153/250 does have some ^M characters that the one from 153/7715 does not.

    Would you like to inspect those pkt and confirm for me?

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Alan Ianson on Sunday, April 07, 2019 03:29:02
    Hey Alan!

    Would you like to inspect those pkt and confirm for me?

    Yes I would. Please upload them but make sure they are in a tarball so I can differentiate them from regular pkt's.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Maurice Kinal on Saturday, April 06, 2019 20:54:54
    Would you like to inspect those pkt and confirm for me?

    Yes I would. Please upload them but make sure they are in a tarball so I can differentiate them from regular pkt's.

    They are in a file called 757pkts.zip, it's in your inbound.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Alan Ianson on Sunday, April 07, 2019 04:10:24
    Hey Alan!

    They are in a file called 757pkts.zip, it's in your inbound.

    Got it. Looking at them they are exactly as you reported, the one from "PATH: 153/7001 154/10 3634/12 153/7715" is unscathed (long line preserved) while the one from "PATH: 153/7001 154/10 280/464 770/1 153/250" is word wrapped.

    BTW I already knew it wasn't 153/7715 but it is nice to see the confirmation. Judging by these two pkts I still have it narrowed down to either 770/1 or 153/250 but you probably have information that I don't.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Sunday, April 07, 2019 05:15:06
    On 2019 Apr 07 02:01:18, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

    @MSGID: 2:280/464.113 5ca959ee
    @REPLY: 1:153/757.0 0911e3e5
    Hallo Alan!

    Can you post something from the EuroPoint?

    Sure thing. Here is a reply to your msg "MSGID: 1:153/757.0 0911e3e5" requesting something from the EuroPoint. As usual there is at least one line (this one) that is really long. Much longer than 80 characters. In fact there are 272 characters up to this character ->.

    this one arrived here in perfect shape...

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113) SEEN-BY: 153/7001 154/10 20 30 40 700 203/0 221/0 6 227/400 229/426 240/5832
    SEEN-BY: 280/464 464 5003 310/31 340/800 396/45 423/120 770/1 3634/12 116/116
    SEEN-BY: 123/25 150 755 135/300 153/7715 261/38 3634/15 27 50 123/50
    3634/0
    SEEN-BY: 18/0 123/0 1/120
    @PATH: 280/464 154/10 3634/12



    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Change the subject? I thought it was toilet trained!
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Alan Ianson on Sunday, April 07, 2019 05:19:16
    On 2019 Apr 06 20:01:46, you wrote to Maurice Kinal:

    @MSGID: 1:153/757.0 d238b9e4
    @REPLY: 1:153/7001.2989 5ca95f35
    @TZUTC: -0800
    @CHARSET: LATIN-1
    Speaking of firsts, you weren't first. The first point here was
    either/or/bot points off Janis and/or Carol back around the turn of the
    century, maybe sooner. When both were running the project was called "Das
    Both" but then the US Navy torpedoed one of them. :::sigh:::

    I have copies of this message arriving from 153/7715 and 153/250. It appears to me that the one coming from 153/250 does have some ^M
    characters
    that the one from 153/7715 does not.

    this message of yours has been manipulated as maurice has been talking about...

    Would you like to inspect those pkt and confirm for me?

    i would like to see them, if i may, please... please zip them and drop them in my inbound or send them to my wkitty42 account on gmail...

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
    SEEN-BY: 57/0 153/250 7001 154/10 20 30 40 700 203/0 221/0 6 227/400 229/426
    SEEN-BY: 240/5832 267/800 280/464 5003 310/31 317/2 340/800 393/68 396/45 SEEN-BY: 423/120 712/848 770/0 1 10 100 330 340 772/0 1 210 500 3634/12 SEEN-BY: 116/116 123/25 150 755 135/300 153/7715 261/38 3634/15 27 50 123/50
    SEEN-BY: 3634/0 18/0 123/0 1/120
    @PATH: 153/757 250 770/1 280/464 154/10 3634/12



    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Trampled by an army of swarthy, Italian lounge singers.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001.2989 to mark lewis on Sunday, April 07, 2019 15:29:19
    Hey mark!

    this one arrived here in perfect shape...

    How about this reply? It should also bypass the tosser in question from your perspective. This line should be unwrapped and is 178 characters long up to the period at the end.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.2989)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Maurice Kinal on Sunday, April 07, 2019 15:48:55
    Hallo Maurice!

    This line should be unwrapped and is 178 characters long

    Yes it is. The path I see is as follows; "PATH: 153/7001 154/10 280/464". I assume it will be the same for mark except without 280/464.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to mark lewis on Sunday, April 07, 2019 09:40:14
    this message of yours has been manipulated as maurice has been talking about..

    Would you like to inspect those pkt and confirm for me?

    i would like to see them, if i may, please... please zip them and drop them in
    my inbound or send them to my wkitty42 account on gmail...

    757pkts.zip is in your inbound. :)

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Maurice Kinal on Sunday, April 07, 2019 16:04:51
    Hey Maurice!

    This line should be unwrapped and is 178 characters long

    Nope. It is now split into 3 lines in the raw pkt as well as after it got tossed here. What is different in your reply is the extra nodes in the path lines (two of them now) as follows; "PATH: 153/7001 154/10 203/0 221/1 640/1384
    633/280 229/426 393/68 770/1" and "PATH: 153/250 757". There are a bunch there I am uncertain of but I still see both 770/1 and 153/250 in there so none
    of the others help to illuminate the issue for me.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Sunday, April 07, 2019 12:11:32
    On 2019 Apr 07 15:29:18, you wrote to me:

    @MSGID: 1:153/7001.2989 5caa174f
    @REPLY: 1:3634/12.73 5ca9bfbc
    Hey mark!

    this one arrived here in perfect shape...

    How about this reply? It should also bypass the tosser in question from your perspective. This line should be unwrapped and is 178 characters
    long
    up to the period at the end.

    yup, arrived here in good shape... your line went all the way across my 135x54 terminal screen before being visually wrapped... quoting it, of course, reflows
    it...

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada
    (1:153/7001.2989)
    SEEN-BY: 153/7001 154/10 20 30 40 700 227/400 340/800 3634/12 116/116 123/25
    SEEN-BY: 123/150 755 135/300 153/7715 261/38 3634/15 27 50 123/50 3634/0 18/0
    SEEN-BY: 123/0 1/120
    @PATH: 153/7001 154/10 3634/12



    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Monkey + Keyboard
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Sunday, April 07, 2019 12:13:04
    On 2019 Apr 07 15:48:54, you wrote to you:

    @MSGID: 2:280/464.113 5caa1be7
    @REPLY: 1:153/7001.2989 5caa174f
    Hallo Maurice!

    This line should be unwrapped and is 178 characters long

    Yes it is. The path I see is as follows; "PATH: 153/7001 154/10 280/464". I assume it will be the same for mark except without 280/464.

    yup...

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113) SEEN-BY: 1/19 15/0 16/0 19/36 34/999 90/1 104/57 116/18 120/544 123/130
    131
    SEEN-BY: 123/140 153/7715 154/10 203/0 218/700 220/60 221/0 222/2 229/426 SEEN-BY: 230/150 152 240/1120 2100 5138 5832 5853 250/1 261/38 100 1466 SEEN-BY: 266/512 267/155 275/100 280/464 5003 5006 282/1031 1056 291/1 111 SEEN-BY: 310/31 320/119 219 340/400 342/13 396/45 423/120 712/848 770/1 SEEN-BY: 801/161 189 2320/105 2454/119 3634/12 5020/715 1042 116/116
    123/25
    SEEN-BY: 123/150 755 135/300 3634/15 27 50 123/50 3634/0 18/0 123/0 1/120 @PATH: 280/464 240/5832 320/219 261/38 3634/12



    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Coffee conquers all.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Alan Ianson on Sunday, April 07, 2019 13:11:40
    On 2019 Apr 07 09:40:14, you wrote to me:

    Would you like to inspect those pkt and confirm for me?

    i would like to see them, if i may, please... please zip them and drop
    them in my inbound or send them to my wkitty42 account on gmail...

    757pkts.zip is in your inbound. :)

    the problem is confirmed... one of the PKTs has ^M characters which should not be there...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... The mission of the military is to kill people and break things.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Sunday, April 07, 2019 13:19:00
    On 2019 Apr 07 16:04:50, you wrote to you:

    a bunch there I am uncertain of but I still see both 770/1

    we already know what software this one is running...

    and 153/250 in

    we need to find out what software this one is running... if they are behind, they need to update or drop back... we're already aware of one package that has
    problems with the seenbys in its latest alpha/beta/whateveritscalled and the suspicion is they are running that package, too...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... He obviously has his finger on the bleeding edge of high tech.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to mark lewis on Sunday, April 07, 2019 11:04:06
    and 153/250 in

    we need to find out what software this one is running... if they are behind,
    they need to update or drop back... we're already aware of one package that ha
    problems with the seenbys in its latest alpha/beta/whateveritscalled and the suspicion is they are running that package, too...

    That node is running 1.12A42. The current version is 1.12A43 but that node is only a week or two behind the A43 version.

    I'll get together with Paul and I think between the two of us we can get some good info for James. I believe the seen-by problem has already been reported and we'll report this also so I think in coming updates we can get this behind us.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001.2989 to mark lewis on Sunday, April 07, 2019 17:56:54
    Hey mark!

    yup, arrived here in good shape...

    Excellent. I appreciate the reply to it as it helps confirm something to me beyond this particular issue.

    quoting it, of course, reflows it...

    Understood. Same situation here but then again that is due to the editor and has nothing to do with tossing. The raw pkts tell the tale.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.2989)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to mark lewis on Sunday, April 07, 2019 17:02:24
    Hello mark,

    07 Apr 19 13:11 at you wrote to Alan Ianson:

    the problem is confirmed... one of the PKTs has ^M characters which
    should not be there...

    That sounds like a problem Telegard had for a long time...something having to do with soft CRs and different codepages. That was a very long time ago now though.

    Later,
    Sean

    ... What orators lack in depth they make up in length.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * Limestone, TN, USA (1:18/200)
  • From Stephen Walsh@3:633/280 to Maurice Kinal on Monday, April 08, 2019 21:54:54
    Hello Maurice!

    07 Apr 19 16:04, you wrote to you:

    got tossed here. What is different in your reply is the extra nodes
    in the path lines (two of them now) as follows; "PATH: 153/7001 154/10 203/0 221/1 640/1384 633/280 229/426 393/68 770/1" and "PATH: 153/250

    633/280 runs MBSE, and is linked to both 640/1384 and 229/426.
    Due to 770/1 running fe, I haven't linked to Paul's system.




    Stephen


    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair ---:- dragon.vk3heg.net -:--- (3:633/280)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Stephen Walsh on Monday, April 08, 2019 12:23:07
    Hey Stephen!

    633/280 runs MBSE

    I've never noticed any issues with MBSE ... not to say there aren't any. I managed to compile a 64 bit version way back when MBSE was new on the scene but
    never actually used it.

    I haven't linked to Paul's system

    Same here which is the main reason for zeroing in on it as a possible link for the leakage into msg bodies. Again I am not the only one whose messages are getting tainted and I have the evidence of messages that are not word wrapped as well as the word wrapped ones. Despite this I cannot say with absolute certainty that it is 770/1 ... or 153/250 for that matter. I am guessing there
    are nodes better positioned to find out one way or another.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Sean Dennis on Monday, April 08, 2019 11:05:16
    On 2019 Apr 07 17:02:24, you wrote to me:

    the problem is confirmed... one of the PKTs has ^M characters which
    should not be there...

    That sounds like a problem Telegard had for a long time...something
    having to do with soft CRs and different codepages.

    are you thinking of the "" (lower case i with the right leaning accent on top)? alt-161, 0xA1 in the CP437 table? some systems may not display the character after it passes through intermediate systems... IIRC, it was used for, as you say, soft carriage returns and i think mainly with QWK stuff... some tossers do have an option to leave the "" alone and not convert it or act
    on it...

    That was a very long time ago now though.

    it was :)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Ya canna be sayin I speak wi a accent, can ya?
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001.2989 to mark lewis on Monday, April 08, 2019 16:02:49
    Hey mark!

    alt-161, 0xA1 in the CP437 table?

    Are you sure you're not thinking about c1 control codes that range from 0x80 to
    0x9f? On that table there exists a NEL (next line 0x85) that took the place of \r\n. I believe IBM came up and used it back in the day. It (they) still exist but I have never seen anyone actually use them other than 0xa0 (aka nbsp)
    in html docs but that isn't really a c1 control code as such but is a special control code in iso-8859.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.2989)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Monday, April 08, 2019 12:54:18
    On 2019 Apr 08 16:02:48, you wrote to me:

    alt-161, 0xA1 in the CP437 table?

    Are you sure you're not thinking about c1 control codes that range from 0x80 to 0x9f?

    yes, i'm very sure that i'm not thinking about c1 control codes... at least not
    "control codes" per s... but it looks like i grabbed the wrong one in my post... below is the one i was thinking about...

    http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/wiki/FidoNet_message_packet

    ----- snip -----
    [...] while "soft line breaks" inserted by automatic processors (which were supposed to be ignored in favor of reformatting the text at the recipient end) were stored as hex 8D. [...]
    ------ snip ------

    0x8d 0x00ec #LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH GRAVE

    i should have selected the other one with the left leaning accent above it...

    ""

    not sure how that will come out because it is being interpreted as a two byte character here :(

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... A stitch in time would have confused Einstein ...
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001.2989 to mark lewis on Monday, April 08, 2019 17:56:45
    Hey mark!

    http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/wiki/FidoNet_message_packet

    I recall reading that and at the time finding absolutely zero references to back that up. I just tried again with no success. I am not sure where that idea comes from and the closest I could find is the well documented c1 control codes. It wouldn't surprise me if there was some propietary usage for 0x8d as a soft line break but finding a reference to back it up is a bit of a challenge
    if not indeed impossible.

    not sure how that will come out because it is being interpreted
    as a two byte character here :(

    I 'see' it as a nonprintable 8 bit character corresponding to 0x8d which is indeed a c1 control code. Converting it to utf-8 from cp437 yields the character in question which in 8 bit hex-speak corresponds to the two bytes c3ac as demonstrated below;

    -={ '<Esc>:read !echo -e "\u00ec is the same as \xc3\xac"' starts }=-
    ì is the same as ì
    -={ '<Esc>:read !echo -e "\u00ec is the same as \xc3\xac"' ends }=-

    It is too easy.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.2989)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Monday, April 08, 2019 15:03:14
    On 2019 Apr 08 17:56:44, you wrote to me:

    http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/wiki/FidoNet_message_packet

    I recall reading that and at the time finding absolutely zero references
    to
    back that up. I just tried again with no success. I am not sure where that idea comes from

    what idea? using that character as a soft-cr in fidonet?

    and the closest I could find is the well documented c1 control codes.
    It wouldn't surprise me if there was some propietary usage for 0x8d as
    a soft line break but finding a reference to back it up is a bit of a challenge if not indeed impossible.

    i'm not sure but it should be documented somewhere in the FTSC documents... i know i've seen it many times in the past... especially when i was using new software that had an option to recognize them or not... with the option on, they acted like cr... with the option off, you could see them and languages that use them were readable when they were used... they were most often seen as
    what some would call a random sprinking of them but if you counted, you could easily see that it wasn't random...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... There's been alarming increase in the # of things I know nothing about.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Monday, April 08, 2019 15:14:46
    On 2019 Apr 08 15:03:14, I wrote to you:

    and the closest I could find is the well documented c1 control codes.
    It wouldn't surprise me if there was some propietary usage for 0x8d
    as a soft line break but finding a reference to back it up is a bit
    of a challenge if not indeed impossible.

    i'm not sure but it should be documented somewhere in the FTSC documents...

    there is mention of 0x8d in FSC-0079, FSC-0081.01A... more importantly, they are also mentioned in FTS-0001 so they were in use on or before 1995... i'm pretty sure they were in use up to a decade before... they may have been brought in by folks using wordstar and similar editors to write their messages...

    either way, there are here and there was needed some workarounds for them to be
    used as actual visible characters in those languages that use them for such...
    mainly the workarounds being to ignore them and not use them as wordwrap marks... especially since wordwrapping has basically been moved to the reader's
    side of the fence instead of the writer's...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... All hail the Mighty Soybean!
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001.2989 to mark lewis on Monday, April 08, 2019 19:17:10
    Hey mark!

    what idea? using that character as a soft-cr in fidonet?

    Yes. Are you aware of any FTN approved software that actually used that character as a soft line feed? Most, if indeed not all, of the fidonet compatible editors I've seen in action used 8 bit character sets - 99.9% of which were the IBM character sets, CP437 being the number one codepage - which would produce an actual printable character for 0x8d and never a soft line feed, not even the ones that see 0x8d as a control code, such as iso-8859-1.

    i'm not sure but it should be documented somewhere in the FTSC
    documents

    fts-0001.016 states, and I quote;

    So called 'soft' carriage returns, 8DH, may mark a previous
    processor's automatic line wrap, and should be ignored.
    Beware that they may be followed by linefeeds, or may not.

    It doesn't say anywhere that applications that use 0x8d as a control code are FTN compliant or even compatible. I'd guess by the above quote that they aren't given the 'should be ignored' part.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.2989)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Monday, April 08, 2019 16:26:36
    On 2019 Apr 08 19:17:10, you wrote to me:

    what idea? using that character as a soft-cr in fidonet?

    Yes. Are you aware of any FTN approved software that actually used that character as a soft line feed?

    yes, as i've noted in this thread previously... i've seen a lot of messages with the "" spread throughout them... what software put them in i have no idea off hand...

    i'm not sure but it should be documented somewhere in the FTSC
    documents

    fts-0001.016 states, and I quote;

    yes, i found that later...

    So called 'soft' carriage returns, 8DH, may mark a previous
    processor's automatic line wrap, and should be ignored.
    Beware that they may be followed by linefeeds, or may not.

    It doesn't say anywhere that applications that use 0x8d as a control code are FTN compliant or even compatible.

    no it doesn't...

    I'd guess by the above quote that they aren't given the 'should be ignored' part.

    so someone using notepad as their editor is breaking FTN standards? i don't think so... any editor can be used as long as the result is readable in plain text (eg: cat somemessage.txt)...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... He doesn't have ulcers, but he's a carrier.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001.2989 to mark lewis on Monday, April 08, 2019 20:59:25
    Hey mark!

    yes, as i've noted in this thread previously

    I must have missed that but now that you bring it up I will start paying attention to it. Usually when I see 8 bit characters I tend to think of them as printable such as your cp437 example of 0x8d and not control codes. It is easy enough to scan for.

    so someone using notepad as their editor is breaking FTN
    standards?

    That isn't what I meant. All I meant is that 0x8d must not be an approved control code given that if exists in a message it should be ignored. However the mention of it must have meant that there was software that produced 0x8d as
    soft line feeds or soft carriage returns despite there being no indication of what software that was and still might be. The only reference I can find pertains to c1 codes and IBM, specifically 0x85 as a replacement for \r\n which
    are liberally used in MS and DOS-think software to terminate lines. I am betting notepad is one of them that uses \r\n rather than 0x85 ... or 0x8d for that matter.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.2989)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to Maurice Kinal on Monday, April 08, 2019 14:57:55
    Hello Maurice,

    08 Apr 19 12:23 at you wrote to Stephen Walsh:

    I've never noticed any issues with MBSE ... not to say there aren't
    any. I managed to compile a 64 bit version way back when MBSE was new
    on the scene but never actually used it.

    If there are issues, let me know. I am back running MBSE and am on the development team.

    Later,
    Sean

    ... If nobody uses it, there's a reason.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * Limestone, TN, USA (1:18/200)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Sean Dennis on Monday, April 08, 2019 21:54:23
    Hey Sean!

    If there are issues, let me know. I am back running MBSE and am
    on the development team.

    Will do except from this angle it looks like you're using golded. ;-)

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Monday, April 08, 2019 18:24:20
    On 2019 Apr 08 20:59:24, you wrote to me:

    yes, as i've noted in this thread previously

    I must have missed that but now that you bring it up I will start
    paying attention to it. Usually when I see 8 bit characters I tend to think of them as printable such as your cp437 example of 0x8d and not control codes. It is easy enough to scan for.

    not a problem...

    so someone using notepad as their editor is breaking FTN
    standards?

    That isn't what I meant.

    i know... i was being facetious :)

    All I meant is that 0x8d must not be an approved control code given
    that if exists in a message it should be ignored.

    it should be ignored, yes, as far as processing goes... reader software that can act on it may still act... the problem there would be the same as forced wrapping to a certain terminal width... granted, this is not mentioned but we need to look at the given spec in the same level it was written for... by that i mean tossers should not mess with it... mailers won't because they don't look
    at messages at that level... so that leaves BBS software and users' readers...

    However the mention of it must have meant that there was software that produced 0x8d as soft line feeds or soft carriage returns despite
    there being no indication of what software that was and still might
    be.

    true...

    The only reference I can find pertains to c1 codes and IBM,
    specifically 0x85 as a replacement for \r\n which are liberally used
    in MS and DOS-think software to terminate lines. I am betting notepad
    is one of them that uses \r\n rather than 0x85 ... or 0x8d for that matter.

    right but again, we're talking about fidonet... not any docs from IBM, AT&T, USC, RFCs, or other similar so-called ""official"" documentation... remember, some of the folks in fido's heyday were professional programmers and document writers... they brought some of that knowledge to fidonet but they also used their own ideas... the rest of "us" merely followed along and tried to be conformant to what was written and how it was documented...

    i was going to write more and a little better but my meds are kinda kicking in ATM...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Ye didna' tell him how long it would REALLY take, did ye?
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Monday, April 08, 2019 18:31:32
    On 2019 Apr 08 21:54:22, you wrote to Sean Dennis:

    If there are issues, let me know. I am back running MBSE and am on
    the development team.

    Will do except from this angle it looks like you're using golded. ;-)

    that's just the reader/editor he's using... it only means that he is not using the BBS interface to the messages when he wrote that message... others of his may be written via the BBS interface or, if he is so inclined, even via QWK/QWKE or Bluewave...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Honey, it's post-partem... PUT DOWN THE MODEM...
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001.2989 to mark lewis on Monday, April 08, 2019 23:32:32
    Hey mark!

    i was being facetious

    Stop it or you'll go blind.

    so that leaves BBS software and users' readers

    In my case that would be vim and in the case of 0x8d it shows a blue coloured "<8d>" which it does for nonprintable c1 codes or as some call them escape codes. However, given your penchant for a CP437 based editors, they will actually print a character and the same will happen for most (all?) editors everyone and their dog is using in fidonet from my observations ... including the Russians with their CP866 ДОС-думаю (<-my lame attempt at Russian for 'DOS-think' in utf8 characters) editors. Oh those Russians.

    in fido's heyday were professional programmers

    Which is what led me to suspect there was once an editor that actually used 0x8d and if so it would be docuamented somewhere. No such luck.

    i was going to write more and a little better but my meds are
    kinda kicking in ATM..

    No meds here but I have been having more frequent senior's moments lately so I can relate. This seems like a good place to stop.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.2989)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001.2989 to mark lewis on Monday, April 08, 2019 23:58:33
    Hey mark!

    others of his may be written via the BBS interface or, if he is
    so inclined, even via QWK/QWKE or Bluewave...

    Looking forward to seeing more of that. I checked out https://www.mbse.eu/bbsing/mbsebbs/features/ and all the good stuff is there ... and then some.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.2989)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to mark lewis on Monday, April 08, 2019 19:07:19
    Hello mark,

    08 Apr 19 12:54 at you wrote to Maurice Kinal:

    0x8d 0x00ec #LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH GRAVE

    That was it. You'd see that on every line of a message if you used Telegard's internal editor if softCRs were enabled.

    Later,
    Sean

    ... A good scare is worth more to a man than good advice. - E.E. Howe
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * Limestone, TN, USA (1:18/200)
  • From Stephen Walsh@3:633/280 to Maurice Kinal on Tuesday, April 09, 2019 12:42:25
    Hello Maurice!

    08 Apr 19 12:23, you wrote to me:

    I managed to compile a 64 bit version way back when MBSE was new
    on the scene but never actually used it.

    1.0.7.x compiles fin on 64bit systems. This vm is running debian 9 64bit.

    I haven't linked to Paul's system

    this I cannot say with absolute certainty that it is 770/1 ... or
    153/250 for that matter. I am guessing there are nodes better

    You need to track down what software 153/250 is running. If fastecho was the problem it would have been reported many years ago.

    @PATH: 153/7001 757 250 770/1 280/464 221/1 640/1384 633/280

    Intresting path your message took.


    Stephen


    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair ---:- dragon.vk3heg.net -:--- (3:633/280)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Stephen Walsh on Tuesday, April 09, 2019 02:57:33
    Hallo Stephen!

    1.0.7.x compiles fin on 64bit systems. This vm is running debian
    9 64bit.

    Maybe I'll have a looksee in the near future. It has been awhile.

    You need to track down what software 153/250 is running.

    It is being worked on by those more in tune and in a better position to deal with it. I think I've done enough damage ... for now. :::evil grin:::

    Intresting path your message took.

    This one might also be interesting. Also, also I have one more if you're interested. We're just chock full o' paths here.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to Maurice Kinal on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 09:17:55
    Hello Maurice,

    10 Apr 19 00:58 at you wrote to me:

    Understood. In my case there is no BBS to telnet into although I have been ssh'ing to other machines (three in total here) to post and/or
    reply from them. In all three cases vim is the editor of choice.

    If you're ever interested, MBSE does allow SSH connections, so if you create an account on my system, you can use SSH to check on things this side of the pond though MBSE is set up to use joe for its external editor.

    Later,
    Sean

    ... For success: try aspiration, inspiration and perspiration.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * Limestone, TN, USA (1:18/200)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to Maurice Kinal on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 09:18:49
    Hello Maurice,

    10 Apr 19 01:01 at you wrote to me:

    I usually don't do much surfing but every now and then I like to check things out, such as in the case of the "Features" page of MBSE. Good information is always a plus.

    Right now we are focusing on fixing major bugs, such MBSE's lack of falling back to .ASC display files when .ANS files aren't found. I have been going through and trying to fix things I find, such as the Engrish that's interspersed throughout MBSE (English was not Michiel's native language :) ).

    Sounds like a plan. :-)

    There's a lot of stuff we're working on and wanting to do. I am trying to teach myself C through this process.

    Later,
    Sean

    ... Insomnia isn't anything to lose sleep over.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * Limestone, TN, USA (1:18/200)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Sean Dennis on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 16:58:13
    Hey Sean!

    If you're ever interested, MBSE does allow SSH connections,

    Would you like me to test that?

    you can use SSH to check on things this side of the pond

    Errrr ... I am on the same side of the pond as you. We just have a continent between us.

    though MBSE is set up to use joe for its external editor.

    Not a problem. I've used joe before. However if it were me who decided the internal editor I would have gone with nano. Overall I think nano is probably the easiest one for users to learn, and it can properly wordwrap for assorted display sizes. Also, also it can do utf8 but I think joe might be able to do that as well. It has been awhile since I've used joe.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Sean Dennis on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 17:05:26
    Hey Sean!

    Right now we are focusing on fixing major bugs

    Always a good idea.

    I am trying to teach myself C through this process.

    I did that way back when while teaching myself c-shell on a Sparc station. The
    two went hand in hand which is probably why it was called c-shell. ;-)

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to Maurice Kinal on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 14:14:40
    Hello Maurice,

    10 Apr 19 16:58 at you wrote to me:

    Would you like me to test that?

    Sure. Create an account (connect to bbs.outpostbbs.net port 2303) and drop me a line to let me know you're here. I'll verify your account and then you can connect via port 2202 for SSH.

    Errrr ... I am on the same side of the pond as you. We just have a continent between us.

    I know. You're on the Canuckistan side of the pond, not the European. :D

    Not a problem. I've used joe before. However if it were me who
    decided the internal editor I would have gone with nano. Overall I
    think nano is probably the easiest one for users to learn, and it can properly wordwrap for assorted display sizes. Also, also it can do
    utf8 but I think joe might be able to do that as well. It has been
    awhile since I've used joe.

    I think joe is better being scripted than nano. MBSE uses a custom joe configuration that nano (in my experience) would have a much more difficult time with doing. However, few people, besides me, use the MBSE external editor. MBSE does have a decent internal line editor if need be. What I should do is write up a system bulletin with "just the keys that you need". I think I have joe set up for WordStar emulation which I am familiar with.

    joe does have its own internal help; hit CTRL-K H when in joe.

    Later,
    Sean

    ... Drilling for oil is boring.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * Limestone, TN, USA (1:18/200)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001.2989 to Sean Dennis on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 20:13:30
    Hey Sean!

    Create an account

    Done. While we're at it I didn't notice a configuration for screen width. It is getting the legth correctly but not the width. Otherwise everything I saw looks good.

    I am replying to this on the CanadARM as your message hasn't shown up on the Brain yet. Maybe they are working on it.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.2989)
  • From Nancy Backus@1:229/452 to Maurice Kinal on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 15:21:44
    Quoting Maurice Kinal to Nancy Backus on 07-Apr-2019 00:25 <=-

    Interestingly, in this packet I got this message twice... the
    first time with the 2025 date in the header (see the quote header
    above), and the second time with the actual date of 31Mar2019.

    Interesting. I am still waiting for it to arrive at the Brain along
    wirh a couple other test netmails, with or without 'actual' dates, whatever that really means. The so-called 'actual' date of that
    message was 2525 and the 2025 was the product of the two digit year
    that the FTSC is so fond of. Also noticed I am missing a couple other messages that have nothing to do with me ... or you for that matter.

    I think your experiment might have messed up the message base at the bbs
    I got that packet from... in trying to "fix" what it saw as a problem,
    the extra message might have pushed the contents of all subsequent
    messages to show up under the wrong message headers.... the sysop had to
    purge the message base... and we had to figure out how to fix our last
    read pointers to get our messages....

    (just a little late with working through the packets, as often
    the case)

    Me too but in my case I delayed replying to this message in case the original showed up as well as tweaking what is now the official
    platform for messages following a specific path. Looks like I found a
    job for the raspberry pi thingy.

    I see you may have used the time wisely, then.... ;) Or at least profitably.... ;)

    ttyl neb

    ... I try to take one day at a time, but often several days attack at once

    --- EzyBlueWave V3.00 01FB001F
    * Origin: Tiny's BBS - http://www.tinysbbs.com (1:229/452)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001.2989 to Nancy Backus on Thursday, April 11, 2019 04:05:35
    Hey Nancy!

    I think your experiment might have messed up the message base

    If that is true I will take the rap for it. Just to be on the safe side I won't do it again, not that I was planning to.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Cybertoasts of note:
    2020-01-01 is 265 days from now and falls on a Wednesday.
    2024-11-05 is 2035 days from now and falls on a Tuesday.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.2989)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Maurice Kinal on Saturday, April 13, 2019 11:42:08
    Re: ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lie
    By: Maurice Kinal to Maurice Kinal on Sun Apr 07 2019 02:23 am

    In fact there are 272 characters up to this character ->.

    I can confirm that as I am looking at it from the pkt I recieved from this
    path; "PATH: 280/464 154/10", which is the entire reason for CanadARM's existance.

    Speaking of firsts, you weren't first. The first point here was either/or/both points off Janis and/or Carol back around the turn of the century, maybe sooner. When both were running the project was called "Das Both" but then the US Navy torpedoed one of them. :::sigh:::

    Grin, I started feeding my first point node in 1989. We both applied at the same time and mine came in (sort of) first, so I added him to a local 202 echo.

    Amusingly, my node number doesnt show (had to use .999 nodelists forever) until I think it's 1991. Wild as I'd been a TG beta for 2 years by then. They finally fixed it when I was elected NET202 Cost Recovery Treasurer thereby to handle about 3,000$ a quarter (obviously not something you pick an unknown, unlisted sysop for!)

    xxcarol



    --- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS, shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001.2989 to Carol Shenkenberger on Saturday, April 13, 2019 17:20:40
    Hey Carol!

    I started feeding my first point node in 1989.

    I think I might have been a user that year. The BBS in question was running on
    a DEC server (VAX/VMS) and my access to it was on a dumb terminal residing in a climate controlled room with 9 track tape drive towers. I forget the name of
    the BBS now but later on it was farmed out to a horticulture society. After that I used a 386 with a 4800 baud modem to connect to it. I am not sure how many years that lasted. 1992-ish or so and by then I had totally spoiled by the Sparc machines I had access to and was doing my best to turn a DOS shell into something resembling csh (aka c-shell).

    Them were the days. :::snicker:::

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.2989)
  • From Nancy Backus@1:229/452 to Maurice Kinal on Wednesday, April 17, 2019 16:25:36
    Quoting Maurice Kinal to Nancy Backus on 11-Apr-2019 04:05 <=-

    I think your experiment might have messed up the message base

    If that is true I will take the rap for it. Just to be on the safe
    side I won't do it again, not that I was planning to.

    Already done the damage, found out what you wanted to be knowing... ;)
    All the same, I'm glad to know you won't do it again....

    ttyl neb

    ... Energizer bunny arrested... and locked in a Dura-cell!

    --- EzyBlueWave V3.00 01FB001F
    * Origin: Tiny's BBS - http://www.tinysbbs.com (1:229/452)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Tuesday, April 09, 2019 12:07:48
    On 2019 Apr 08 23:32:32, you wrote to me:

    i was being facetious

    Stop it or you'll go blind.

    too late! :lol:

    in fido's heyday were professional programmers

    Which is what led me to suspect there was once an editor that actually
    used
    0x8d and if so it would be docuamented somewhere. No such luck.

    maybe wordstar or similar from back in the CPM days... those formats may not be
    publicly documented, though...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Excuse me. I have to go take my lungfish for a walk now.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Sean Dennis on Tuesday, April 09, 2019 12:16:54
    On 2019 Apr 08 19:07:18, you wrote to me:

    0x8d 0x00ec #LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH GRAVE

    That was it. You'd see that on every line of a message if you used Telegard's internal editor if softCRs were enabled.

    i thought it was... i just grabbed the wrong one when i first responded... you can still see them today on some messages depending on what software was used to create them... i see them from time to time with GoldED when reading others'
    posts...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... I'm just a simple man.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001.2989 to mark lewis on Tuesday, April 09, 2019 17:04:24
    Hey mark!

    maybe wordstar or similar from back in the CPM days...

    Offhand I don't recall wordstar putting in 0x8d characters but that was 20-ish years ago when I last looked at it. Never did use it as I preferred QEdit back
    in those days. It was teeny-tiny and easily fit onto a boot floppy which made
    it excellent for doing maintenence type activities on so-called PCs. I am almost positive QEdit used the DOS-think \r\n combination to terminate lines as
    I needed to strip out the \r's when porting text files to ye ol' Sparc machines. If you ever run across a message with 0x8d's I'd like to see a copy of it as they stick out like sore thumbs in vim. Anyhow I noticed one of the paths stripped out the 0x8d I sent yesterday. Care to guess which path? ;-)

    That's my story and I am sticking to it.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.2989)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to Maurice Kinal on Tuesday, April 09, 2019 17:19:34
    Maurice Kinal wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

    Will do except from this angle it looks like you're using golded. ;-)

    I do that when I want to send out quick messages instead of telneting
    into the system itself.

    Later,
    Sean


    --- MultiMail/Win
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * Limestone, TN, USA (1:18/200)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to Maurice Kinal on Tuesday, April 09, 2019 17:44:25
    Maurice Kinal wrote to mark lewis <=-

    Looking forward to seeing more of that. I checked out https://www.mbse.eu/bbsing/mbsebbs/features/ and all the good stuff is there ... and then some.

    Andrew and I have set up mbsebbs.org though not much is there at the
    moment. I am working on it myself but am waiting for Andrew to have
    time for us to sit down and work on this together.

    One thing that we are planning on is setting up QWK networking in MBSE
    and a QWK<->FTN gate system also.

    Later,
    Sean


    --- MultiMail/Win
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * Limestone, TN, USA (1:18/200)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Sean Dennis on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 00:58:18
    Hey Sean!

    I do that when I want to send out quick messages instead of
    telneting into the system itself.

    Understood. In my case there is no BBS to telnet into although I have been ssh'ing to other machines (three in total here) to post and/or reply from them.
    In all three cases vim is the editor of choice.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Sean Dennis on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 01:01:45
    Hey Sean!

    Andrew and I have set up mbsebbs.org though not much is there at
    the moment.

    I usually don't do much surfing but every now and then I like to check things out, such as in the case of the "Features" page of MBSE. Good information is always a plus.

    One thing that we are planning on is setting up QWK networking
    in MBSE and a QWK<->FTN gate system also.

    Sounds like a plan. :-)

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)