• that trick never works

    From Maurice Kinal@1:18/200 to BullwInkle Moose on Friday, April 12, 2019 16:20:43
    Hey Bullwinkle!

    Let's try this instead; A M????se once bit my sister ...

    Offhand the above doesn't look promising.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    Greetings, Maurice Kinal

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.7.12 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * Limestone, TN, USA (1:18/200)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Friday, April 12, 2019 16:34:22
    On 2019 Apr 12 16:20:42, you wrote to BullwInkle Moose:

    @CHRS: UTF-8 4
    @MSGID: 1:18/200@fidonet 562f9614
    @PID: MBSE-BBS 1.0.7.12 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
    @TZUTC: -0400
    @TID: MBSE-FIDO 1.0.7.12 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
    Hey Bullwinkle!

    Let's try this instead; A M????se once bit my sister ...

    nope... they're all question marks...

    Offhand the above doesn't look promising.

    how are you entering the characters? on my box i had to specifically assign a modifier key to use so as to be able to enter ""blended"" characters... characters like

    and similar

    then i have to hold the modifier key and hit the " followed by the o for the character...

    i don't know what that system has to do to enter those characters since the old
    CP437 ALT-xxx model doesn't work any more... sean may not have configured that
    yet... i dunno... what i describe is what i had to do on a KDE GUI setup...

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    Greetings, Maurice Kinal

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.7.12 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * Limestone, TN, USA (1:18/200)
    SEEN-BY: 15/2 18/200 123/1970 153/7001 154/10 20 30 40 700 203/0 221/0 6 SEEN-BY: 226/17 227/400 229/107 354 426 452 1014 240/5832 249/206 317 400 SEEN-BY: 280/464 5003 310/31 317/3 322/757 340/800 342/200 393/68 396/45 SEEN-BY: 423/120 633/280 770/1 3634/12 116/116 123/25 150 755 135/300 153/7715
    SEEN-BY: 261/38 3634/15 27 50 123/50 3634/0 18/0 123/0 1/120
    @PATH: 18/200 229/426 280/464 154/10 3634/12



    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... History repeats itself, but each time the price goes up.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Maurice Kinal on Friday, April 12, 2019 21:26:12
    Hey Maurice!

    as well as the correct control codes

    Actually that should be "as well as the correct codes" without the control.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to mark lewis on Friday, April 12, 2019 20:50:05
    Hallo mark!

    on my box i had to specifically assign a modifier key to use so
    as to be able to enter ""blended"" characters...

    By blended do you mean multibyte? Anyhow I won't quote back your modifier keys
    as they show as C1 control codes here. I never use those but perhaps they will work in other editors, maybe even joe. That I don't know.

    what i describe is what i had to do on a KDE GUI setup...

    Ah! Yeah I read something about that somewhere. No KDE here, or anything like
    it, so I cannot confirm nor deny. All I know for sure that on the linux console those tricks won't work. The left <ALT> plus the decimal number does on both the console and in vim, as well as the correct control codes, and I'd imagine the same might be true for codepages. This being a native uft8 enviroment makes things much easier when that is the goal. Also having iconv handy makes it extremely convenient to convert to 8 bit codepages when needed.
    However I try and avoid that since I have yet to see a 8 bit codepage that has
    it all and I am greedy. ;-)

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Friday, April 12, 2019 18:08:22
    On 2019 Apr 12 20:50:04, you wrote to me:

    on my box i had to specifically assign a modifier key to use so as to
    be able to enter ""blended"" characters...

    By blended do you mean multibyte?

    no because even the ones in CP437 that are greater than 127 have to be ""blended""... by blended i mean that i have to hold the modifier button and then hit the two keys, in proper order, to create the character...

    Anyhow I won't quote back your modifier keys as they show as C1
    control codes here. I never use those but perhaps they will work in
    other editors, maybe even joe. That I don't know.

    i dunno... C1?? AFAIK they're just CP437 characters greater than 127...

    what i describe is what i had to do on a KDE GUI setup...

    Ah! Yeah I read something about that somewhere. No KDE here, or anything like it, so I cannot confirm nor deny. All I know for sure that on the linux console those tricks won't work. The left <ALT> plus the decimal number does on both the console and in vim, as well as the correct control codes, and I'd imagine the same might be true for codepages.

    i was never able to create any of the CP437 characters greater than 127 until i
    enabled the ""blended"" character modifier key and then learned a little bit about how to do it properly...

    This being a native uft8 enviroment makes things much easier when that
    is the goal.

    i don't know what condition this console is in... i tried a lot of things to try to get CP437 working so i could telnet or ssh into a BBS system and be able
    to properly display files with characters greater than 127 in them... especially the "box drawing" characters which we use quite a lot when drawing our ASCII/ANSI menus and other screens... CP437 spoiled a lot of us and it is hard to get away from it...

    Also having iconv handy makes it extremely convenient to convert to 8
    bit codepages when needed.

    that's all fine and good except when we're trying to create nice screens for our BBSes...

    However I try and avoid that since I have yet to see a 8 bit codepage
    that has it all and I am greedy. ;-)

    if only we were all so lucky :)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... It's always easier to see the silver lining in someone else's cloud.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to mark lewis on Friday, April 12, 2019 23:29:16
    Hallo mark!

    by blended i mean that i have to hold the modifier button and
    then hit the two keys, in proper order, to create the character

    Wow. That sounds far too much like work.

    AFAIK they're just CP437 characters greater than 127

    You mean like the 0x8d I sent that went MIA along a certain path? Let's see if
    I can recreate it using utf8 and iconv;

    It's all fun and games until someone loses an .

    On the above line it is U+00EC according to vim but after I exit iconv will convert it to 0x8d which should be the proper cp437 character at your end.

    especially the "box drawing" characters which we use quite a lot
    when drawing our ASCII/ANSI menus and other screens

    Which should be the same codes on CP866, CP850, and other assorted IBM 8 bit codepages. They have *NOTHING* to do with ASCII. There is no such thing as a code higher than 127 in ASCII as ALL ASCII codes are 7 bit characters (ie 0-127). There are exactly zero "box drawing" characters in ASCII.

    if only we were all so lucky

    It has nothing to do with luck. It is all about making the right choices.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001.2989 to Maurice Kinal on Saturday, April 13, 2019 00:23:56
    Hey Maurice!

    Let's see if I can recreate it using utf8 and iconv

    Worked like a charm on here but on this path; "PATH: 280/464 154/10", which has
    only one hop between us. Also not word wrapped.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.2989)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Maurice Kinal on Saturday, April 13, 2019 00:29:30
    Hey Maurice!

    It's all fun and games until someone loses an .

    Loses an ?????

    For the record the 0x8d was stripped along this path; "PATH: 280/464 770/1 153/250 757"

    Isn't that the EXACT character fts-0001 states - and I quote - "should be ignored"? Tsk, tsk.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Friday, April 12, 2019 20:33:10
    On 2019 Apr 12 23:29:16, you wrote to me:

    by blended i mean that i have to hold the modifier button and then
    hit the two keys, in proper order, to create the character

    Wow. That sounds far too much like work.

    that's SOP AFAIK... especially for folks in europe that need to create characters not already on their keyboard... that's how it is now with greater than 4billion glyphs to choose from in this (UGH! i can't believe i'm going to say this) UTF-8/16/32 world...

    AFAIK they're just CP437 characters greater than 127

    You mean like the 0x8d I sent that went MIA along a certain path? Let's see if I can recreate it using utf8 and iconv;

    It's all fun and games until someone loses an .

    On the above line it is U+00EC according to vim but after I exit iconv
    will
    convert it to 0x8d which should be the proper cp437 character at your end.

    i dunno... i see a tilde "~" and a capital "M"... i may not have the UTF-8 -> CP437 conversion stuff right, though...

    especially the "box drawing" characters which we use quite a lot
    when drawing our ASCII/ANSI menus and other screens

    Which should be the same codes on CP866, CP850, and other assorted IBM 8 bit codepages.

    codes, yes... but not the glyphs...

    They have *NOTHING* to do with ASCII. There is no such thing as a
    code higher than 127 in ASCII as ALL ASCII codes are 7 bit characters
    (ie 0-127). There are exactly zero "box drawing" characters in ASCII.

    i really don't need this, ya know? i specifically put ANSI on there to appease you and to try to communicate the characters i was speaking of... WTF do you call those glyphs greater than 127? to everyone who has worked with them for 30+ years, they are valid characters... not control codes or other similar guff...

    if only we were all so lucky

    It has nothing to do with luck. It is all about making the right choices.

    it has everything to do with luck when you're trying to continue to support your hobby and work with it every day and present a nice text interface for your users... especially when you're drowning in the muck and just trying to do
    like you've always done... draw a frame around a menu... draw a box around a section of screen and then fill it with data... draw a damned pot of gold for display on st. patricks day... all without having to fark around with some other 3rd party muckity muck with your fingers crossed that it will come out properly and not be all screwed up...


    ==== Begin "03-17.msg" ====


    5 4 3 2 1
    ==== End "03-17.msg" ====


    :SIGH:


    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... I sense alcoholism runs deep in your lineage.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to mark lewis on Saturday, April 13, 2019 01:53:37
    Hallo mark!

    Whoa! Something funky just happened. I am seeing all sorts of weirdness in your reply and that is from all 3 paths, although 1 of the paths has the word wrapping while the other two doesn't. Offhand I don't see how a single 0x8d could have caused it but perhaps it did, which makes the schpiel about it in fts-0001.016 very much foreboding ... if indeed that is what caused what I am seeing.

    i may not have the UTF-8 -> CP437 conversion stuff right

    What's to get right? Just try this on a commandline;

    echo -e "\x8d" | iconv -f cp437 -t utf8

    If you cannot display utf8 characters on your shell then add another pipe such as this;

    echo -e "\x8d" | iconv -f cp437 -t utf8 | xxd

    which will print out this;

    00000000: c3ac 0a ...

    Note the c3ac part. That is the same as u00ec except in 8 bit hex-speak. If you're seeing anything else then something is horribly wrong.

    As for KDE I refuse to speak for or against it. I am indifferent to any GUI apps as far as others usage of them and never use them myself without getting paid extaordinary amounts of pure, hard legal tender by those who would wish me
    to troubleshoot those apps for them. Needless to say that never happens which
    is more reason not to go there.

    all without having to fark around with some other 3rd party
    muckity muck with your fingers crossed that it will come out
    properly and not be all screwed up

    Exactly how is that all working out for you?

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Saturday, April 13, 2019 11:42:02
    On 2019 Apr 13 01:53:36, you wrote to me:

    Hallo mark!

    Whoa! Something funky just happened. I am seeing all sorts of weirdness in your reply and that is from all 3 paths, although 1 of the paths has
    the
    word wrapping while the other two doesn't. Offhand I don't see how a single 0x8d could have caused it but perhaps it did, which makes the schpiel about it in fts-0001.016 very much foreboding ... if indeed that
    is
    what caused what I am seeing.

    if that's the post i think it was, i included a graphic of a rainbow over a pot
    of gold...

    i may not have the UTF-8 -> CP437 conversion stuff right

    What's to get right? Just try this on a commandline;

    we don't do that here... that's all outside of our setup with GoldED and totally alien...

    echo -e "\x8d" | iconv -f cp437 -t utf8

    If you cannot display utf8 characters on your shell then add another pipe such as this;

    i didn't say that i couldn't... i said i had done numerous things to switch to something that would show CP437 properly...

    all without having to fark around with some other 3rd party
    muckity muck with your fingers crossed that it will come out
    properly and not be all screwed up

    Exactly how is that all working out for you?

    as i said, i tried numerous things and nothing seemed to work as expected... not even changing the font to something with more than a 256 position table of glyphs...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Heatless habaneros. That'll benefit society as much as seedless corn.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to mark lewis on Saturday, April 13, 2019 18:00:01
    Hallo mark!

    if that's the post i think it was, i included a graphic of a
    rainbow over a pot of gold...

    Yes that would be the msg in question. However the graphic is definetly grunged even when converted to utf8 from cp437. Is there an original I can have a looksee? If it contains any ansi escape sequences that is what would cause extreme grief as those will not work in fidonet messaging. Anyhow I have
    been able to convert cp437 ansi files to utf8 ansi files in the past and the result is best viewed using stty. Offhand I don't recall exactly how it was achieved but do recall stty has some switches to force the view to 24x80 so that the ansi escape sequences behave themselves on terminals foreign to 'normal' DOS-think terminals. Not sure if the same will work on a KDE terminal
    but perhaps something closer to a 'normal' terminal such as rxvt?

    Sean might be able to test a cp437 ansi file in tmux without the need for stty by sizing it's terminal to 24x80, as he seems to be using cp437 natively.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Saturday, April 13, 2019 17:44:34
    On 2019 Apr 13 18:00:00, you wrote to me:

    if that's the post i think it was, i included a graphic of a rainbow
    over a pot of gold...

    Yes that would be the msg in question. However the graphic is definetly grunged even when converted to utf8 from cp437.

    i don't doubt it... there were also ^A codes as well as ANSI codes...

    Is there an original I can have a looksee?

    i'll have to try to dig one out...

    If it contains any ansi escape sequences that is what would cause
    extreme grief as those will not work in fidonet messaging.

    there were and they do not... i see ANSI graphics posted in one or two of the BBS ads echos all the time...

    Anyhow I have been able to convert cp437 ansi files to utf8 ansi files
    in the past and the result is best viewed using stty. Offhand I don't recall exactly how it was achieved but do recall stty has some
    switches to force the view to 24x80 so that the ansi escape sequences

    that should not be needed with what i do... my ANSI screens always save their current cursor position at the end of the data and then move to the beginning of the next line to emit it... in thedraw, it is done with block-save...

    behave themselves on terminals foreign to 'normal' DOS-think
    terminals. Not sure if the same will work on a KDE terminal but
    perhaps something closer to a 'normal' terminal such as rxvt?

    i don't know at this point...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Death: To stop sinning suddenly.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to mark lewis on Saturday, April 13, 2019 22:15:28
    Hallo mark!

    there were also ^A codes as well as ANSI codes...

    Those survived and I wasn't sure they were in your original as such. I didn't count them but there are quite a few of them as well as \r's from hell.

    i see ANSI graphics posted in one or two of the BBS ads echos
    all the time...

    Hm. Maybe I should pick one of those up. Any recommendations?

    i'll have to try to dig one out...

    I'd prefer the St. Patrick's one if available. I now need closure since you brought it up.

    that should not be needed with what i do...

    Sounds great. The little I've done with ansi graphics I've made it a point to follow a similar plan. In my case it was only to colourize messages on a console.

    i don't know at this point...

    Understood. Anyhow back when it mattered to me I found rxvt to be the terminal
    of choice in GUI-land. If I am recalling correctly it was with the -rv and -ls switches turned on by default. Same with xterm now that I think about it.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Maurice Kinal on Saturday, April 13, 2019 16:34:06
    Hello Maurice,

    Those survived and I wasn't sure they were in your original as such. I didn't
    count them but there are quite a few of them as well as \r's from hell.

    This message arrived here via 280/464 and 770/1. Did you get it on the Brain?

    If so can you confirm there are no ^M characters in there that shouldn't be there? I am sure there are not but I need confirmation.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Alan Ianson on Sunday, April 14, 2019 00:39:11
    Hey Alan!

    Did you get it on the Brain?

    Yes to all the messages concerning that particular issue, including the original one with \r's from hell.

    If so can you confirm there are no ^M characters in there that
    shouldn't be there?

    Referencing "MSGID: 2:280/464.113 5cb25f80" where you got the quote from, the answer is that it arrived intact as sent from the EuroPoint where it originated
    from. The path is as follows; "PATH: 280/464 770/1 153/757". There are only the \r's in there that are supposed to be. I have the original pkt as sent from 153/757 to prove it if required and have a backup raw pkt with the same packed msg from a different path on the CanadARM to back up the claim that the packed msg is as it should be and matches the original packed msg resident on the EuroPoint in a backup of the raw pkt sent to the mothership in Lisse, Netherlands. Counting the raw pkt from 153/757, that totals 3 raw pkts which will verify the integrity of "MSGID: 2:280/464.113 5cb25f80".

    Simple answer is everything is as it should be. Thank you.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Maurice Kinal on Saturday, April 13, 2019 18:11:24
    Simple answer is everything is as it should be. Thank you.

    Excellent, I am glad to hear that.. and I think Paul is too.. :)

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001.2989 to Maurice Kinal on Sunday, April 14, 2019 01:09:30
    Hey Maurice!

    Simple answer is everything is as it should be. Thank you.

    Confirmed.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.2989)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Maurice Kinal on Sunday, April 14, 2019 01:23:49
    Hallo Maurice!

    Simple answer is everything is as it should be. Thank you.

    Confirmed.

    Likewise.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Paul Hayton@3:770/100 to Alan Ianson on Sunday, April 14, 2019 13:29:52
    On 13 Apr 2019 at 06:11p, Alan Ianson pondered and said...
    Excellent, I am glad to hear that.. and I think Paul is too.. :)

    Out of interest how does this message look Al?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Saturday, April 13, 2019 21:39:42
    On 2019 Apr 13 22:15:28, you wrote to me:

    there were also ^A codes as well as ANSI codes...

    Those survived and I wasn't sure they were in your original as such. I didn't count them but there are quite a few of them as well as \r's from hell.

    yeah, GoldED trashed it at some point... it didn't remain at the end of the message where i put it... when i read your first post about it, i went back and
    looked and GE has broken it all to hell...

    i see ANSI graphics posted in one or two of the BBS ads echos
    all the time...

    Hm. Maybe I should pick one of those up. Any recommendations?

    not recommendations, per s...

    BBS_ADS
    BBS_PROMOTION

    i'll have to try to dig one out...

    I'd prefer the St. Patrick's one if available. I now need closure since you brought it up.

    would a graphic work instead of the farkled ANSI?

    that should not be needed with what i do...

    Sounds great. The little I've done with ansi graphics I've made it a
    point
    to follow a similar plan. In my case it was only to colourize messages on a console.

    yeah, that's what a lot of folks used to do... in some of the networks that are
    mainly ANSI graphic oriented, there's a lot of that and you almost have to read posts online via an ANSI capable terminal...

    i don't know at this point...

    Understood. Anyhow back when it mattered to me I found rxvt to be the terminal of choice in GUI-land. If I am recalling correctly it was with the -rv and -ls switches turned on by default. Same with xterm now that I think about it.

    i think the term i use is konsole... it comes with KDE and i've just never looked into trying any others... i don't know what the regular text-based console is when i switch over to it via CTRL-ALT-F1 but it is the standard TTY interface... i have six of those there via ALT-F1-6 and ALT-F7 brings me back into the GUI...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Etiquette: Saying "No, thank you," when you want to yell, "GIMME!!!"
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Paul Hayton on Saturday, April 13, 2019 21:50:36
    On 2019 Apr 14 13:29:52, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

    @TID: Mystic BBS 1.12 A43
    @MSGID: 3:770/100 a7d4b33d
    @REPLY: 1:153/757.0 18db6fcf
    @TZUTC: 1200
    On 13 Apr 2019 at 06:11p, Alan Ianson pondered and said...
    Excellent, I am glad to hear that.. and I think Paul is too.. :)

    Out of interest how does this message look Al?

    it looks fine but there's no >80 character lines in it... try a paragraph from this link...

    https://loremipsum.io/generator/?n=1&t=p

    that should generate only one paragraph... the default is 5...

    Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu
    fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in
    culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

    the above is 1 long line wrapped to 2.75 lines at 165x54 in GoldED...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100) SEEN-BY: 57/0 153/250 757 7001 154/10 20 30 40 700 203/0 221/0 6 227/400 SEEN-BY: 229/426 240/5832 267/800 280/464 5003 310/31 317/2 340/800 393/68 SEEN-BY: 396/45 423/120 712/848 770/0 1 10 100 330 340 772/0 1 210 500 3634/12
    SEEN-BY: 116/116 123/25 150 755 135/300 153/7715 261/38 3634/15 27 50 123/50
    SEEN-BY: 3634/0 18/0 123/0 1/120
    @PATH: 770/100 1 280/464 154/10 3634/12



    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... An improperly cooked turkey is a ticking Meat Bomb of Death - USDA
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001.2989 to mark lewis on Sunday, April 14, 2019 03:21:12
    Hey mark!

    i went back and looked and GE has broken it all to hell...

    That sounds like what I see here. I checked it against the other two raw pkts I have and they compared so I was certain it wasn't anything that happened enroute.

    BBS_ADS
    BBS_PROMOTION

    And they both ship out ansi escape sequences in pkts?

    would a graphic work instead of the farkled ANSI?

    By farkled ANSI do you mean what I saw in your msg? If so then maybe a graphic
    might be better. Are we talking jpeg type graphic? I've run across a number of commandline conversion tools to create ansi/ascii art from jpegs, pngs, etc,
    over the years but have never actually tried any.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.2989)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Paul Hayton on Saturday, April 13, 2019 21:28:00
    Excellent, I am glad to hear that.. and I think Paul is too.. :)

    Out of interest how does this message look Al?

    Looks good here.. but it would be intersting if you post a paragraph worth of stuff in just one line and we could see if there was any sort of word wrapping applied to it as mark suggested.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Paul Hayton@3:770/100 to mark lewis on Sunday, April 14, 2019 19:15:50
    On 13 Apr 2019 at 09:50p, mark lewis pondered and said...

    it looks fine but there's no >80 character lines in it... try a
    paragraph from this link...

    https://loremipsum.io/generator/?n=1&t=p

    that should generate only one paragraph... the default is 5...

    Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint
    occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt
    mollit anim id est laborum.

    the above is 1 long line wrapped to 2.75 lines at 165x54 in GoldED...


    Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod
    tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Varius duis at
    consectetur lorem donec massa. Nec feugiat nisl pretium fusce id velit ut tortor pretium. Quis auctor elit sed vulputate mi sit amet mauris. Faucibus pulvinar elementum integer enim neque volutpat. Sollicitudin aliquam ultrices sagittis orci a scelerisque purus semper. Lectus magna fringilla urna
    porttitor rhoncus dolor purus non enim. Vitae tortor condimentum lacinia quis vel. Amet mauris commodo quis imperdiet massa tincidunt nunc. Et malesuada fames ac turpis egestas.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)
  • From Paul Hayton@3:770/100 to Alan Ianson on Sunday, April 14, 2019 19:17:17
    On 13 Apr 2019 at 09:28p, Alan Ianson pondered and said...

    Looks good here.. but it would be intersting if you post a paragraph
    worth of stuff in just one line and we could see if there was any sort
    of word wrapping applied to it as mark suggested.

    Just posting three paras

    Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod
    tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Mi tempus imperdiet nulla malesuada pellentesque elit eget gravida. Nunc congue nisi vitae suscipit tellus mauris a diam maecenas. Purus sit amet volutpat consequat mauris nunc congue nisi vitae. Dignissim enim sit amet venenatis urna cursus eget nunc. Amet dictum sit amet justo donec. Facilisis volutpat est velit egestas dui
    id. At lectus urna duis convallis convallis tellus id interdum. Porttitor leo
    a diam sollicitudin tempor id eu nisl nunc. Felis donec et odio pellentesque diam volutpat. Ipsum dolor sit amet consectetur adipiscing. Malesuada fames
    ac turpis egestas integer eget. Sagittis eu volutpat odio facilisis mauris. Amet porttitor eget dolor morbi non arcu risus quis. Enim tortor at auctor urna. Vulputate ut pharetra sit amet aliquam id diam maecenas. Lacinia at
    quis risus sed vulputate. Turpis egestas sed tempus urna. Facilisis volutpat est velit egestas dui id ornare arcu.

    At in tellus integer feugiat scelerisque varius morbi. Magna ac placerat vestibulum lectus mauris ultrices eros. Ornare arcu dui vivamus arcu felis bibendum ut tristique. Eleifend quam adipiscing vitae proin sagittis nisl rhoncus mattis rhoncus. Neque laoreet suspendisse interdum consectetur libero id faucibus nisl tincidunt. Lectus nulla at volutpat diam ut venenatis tellus in. Semper viverra nam libero justo laoreet sit amet. Vitae tempus quam pellentesque nec nam aliquam sem et tortor. Vestibulum lorem sed risus ultricies tristique nulla. Donec ultrices tincidunt arcu non sodales neque sodales ut. Quis risus sed vulputate odio ut enim blandit volutpat maecenas. Sociis natoque penatibus et magnis dis parturient montes nascetur ridiculus.

    Ac feugiat sed lectus vestibulum. Volutpat odio facilisis mauris sit amet. Mi ipsum faucibus vitae aliquet nec ullamcorper. Donec et odio pellentesque diam volutpat commodo sed. Pretium fusce id velit ut tortor pretium viverra suspendisse potenti. Lectus proin nibh nisl condimentum id. Urna porttitor rhoncus dolor purus non enim praesent. Malesuada fames ac turpis egestas maecenas pharetra convallis. Malesuada pellentesque elit eget gravida cum sociis. Elit sed vulputate mi sit amet mauris. Viverra justo nec ultrices
    dui. Morbi quis commodo odio aenean sed adipiscing diam. Nulla at volutpat
    diam ut venenatis tellus in metus.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Sunday, April 14, 2019 08:17:56
    On 2019 Apr 14 03:21:12, you wrote to me:

    BBS_ADS
    BBS_PROMOTION

    And they both ship out ansi escape sequences in pkts?

    yeah if the BBS posting the ad posts an ANSI screen... there are several that do...

    would a graphic work instead of the farkled ANSI?

    By farkled ANSI do you mean what I saw in your msg?

    yeah, that's a nice way of saying... i really wanted to write it a different way, though...

    s/a/u/
    s/r/c/
    s/l//

    maybe that will help? O:)

    If so then maybe a graphic might be better. Are we talking jpeg type graphic?

    jpg or png, whatever my screen capture takes...

    I've run across a number of commandline conversion tools to create ansi/ascii art from jpegs, pngs, etc, over the years but have never actually tried any.

    i don't worry about them... i can just hit the print screen button and a screen
    capture tool pops up... i can take the whole screen, the window under the cursor, or just a framed portion...

    http://sestar.synchro.net/temp/20190414-st-paddys-day-rainbow-01.jpg

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... EXECdb, Maximum Overkill in EXEC-PC File List Management
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Paul Hayton on Sunday, April 14, 2019 09:05:10
    On 2019 Apr 14 19:15:50, you wrote to me:

    @TID: Mystic BBS 1.12 A43
    @MSGID: 3:770/100 1a36a4c3
    @REPLY: 1:3634/12.73 5cb292bc
    @TZUTC: 1200
    On 13 Apr 2019 at 09:50p, mark lewis pondered and said...

    [...]

    Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Varius duis at consectetur lorem donec massa. Nec feugiat nisl pretium fusce id velit ut tortor pretium. Quis auctor elit sed vulputate mi sit amet mauris.
    Faucibus
    pulvinar elementum integer enim neque volutpat. Sollicitudin aliquam ultrices sagittis orci a scelerisque purus semper. Lectus magna fringilla urna porttitor rhoncus dolor purus non enim. Vitae tortor condimentum lacinia quis vel. Amet mauris commodo quis imperdiet massa tincidunt nunc. Et malesuada fames ac turpis egestas.

    that looks fine... it has forced hard-CRs at like 72 character widths if i counted properly... t'would be better if they were not forced at all but that can be taken care of later ;)

    http://sestar.synchro.net/temp/20190414-paul-hayton-asian_linktest-01.jpg

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100) SEEN-BY: 15/0 19/33 36 34/999 90/1 104/57 116/18 123/140 124/5014 5016 130/803
    SEEN-BY: 153/7715 218/700 220/60 222/2 230/150 152 240/1120 250/1 261/38 100
    SEEN-BY: 261/1466 266/512 267/155 275/100 280/464 282/1031 1056 291/1 111 SEEN-BY: 320/119 219 340/400 342/13 387/21 396/45 712/848 801/161 189 2320/105
    SEEN-BY: 3634/12 5020/715 1042 31999/99 116/116 123/25 150 755 135/300 154/10
    SEEN-BY: 3634/15 27 50 123/50 3634/0 18/0 123/0 1/120
    @PATH: 770/100 1 280/464 396/45 261/38 3634/12

    the one system we were looking at is not in the above path this time...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Shiny. Let's be bad guys.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to mark lewis on Sunday, April 14, 2019 14:28:35
    Hallo mark!

    20190414-st-paddys-day-rainbow-01.jpg

    Got it. Thanks. The characters in there look like all ascii (ie 7 bit) and I don't see any box drawing characters at all, although a few of them could be but they also could be underscores, dashes and the such which are ascii characters.

    That is nice and it would have been great to see the actual ansified version instead but the screenshot has satisfied my curiousity.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to mark lewis on Sunday, April 14, 2019 19:48:07
    mark lewis wrote to Maurice Kinal <=-

    BBS_ADS

    I recommend BBS_ADS. I'm friends with the moderator. ;)

    Later,
    Sean


    ... Internal consistency is more highly valued than efficiency.
    --- MultiMail/Win
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * Limestone, TN, USA (1:18/200)
  • From Paul Hayton@3:770/100 to mark lewis on Monday, April 15, 2019 13:02:41
    On 14 Apr 2019 at 09:05a, mark lewis pondered and said...

    that looks fine... it has forced hard-CRs at like 72 character widths if
    i counted properly... t'would be better if they were not forced at all
    but that can be taken care of later ;)

    @PATH: 770/100 1 280/464 396/45 261/38 3634/12

    the one system we were looking at is not in the above path this time...

    OK so I'm using the latest public release of Mystic and sent my original post via 3:770/1 which we are saying is not doing anything to content. So if I understand you right you're (and others?) are happy with the way my test post came across to you - right? :)

    But.. we're also wondering about another system (running Mystic right? but perhaps earlier version?) that may be adding something to the way content is then displayed after packets pass though it.

    Do I have that summarized correctly? Al?

    Best, Paul

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Paul Hayton on Sunday, April 14, 2019 19:43:48
    OK so I'm using the latest public release of Mystic and sent my original post via 3:770/1 which we are saying is not doing anything to content. So if I understand you right you're (and others?) are happy with the way my test post came across to you - right? :)

    It looks fine here. I wish I would have grabbed that pkt before I tossed it at 757.2, But I have the message I am replying to waiting for 757.2 to pick up.

    Let me have a look..

    Looking at the above in that pkt file there is a ^M at the end of each line. That will cause word wrapping on the readers terminal at that point. I suppose that is OK and since that is the way it originated we don't want to change any of that.

    Perhaps it would be a good thing if lines were not wrapped and just left as one
    long line until the author of the message hits the enter key?

    In that case the line would wrap depending on the terminal the reader is using.

    And of course an important detail here is not to change message content that passes through your node. It looked like some wrapping (added ^M characters) was happening at a Mystic node. Perhaps we should test that with an upto date version of Mystic and see how that goes.

    This is just a bit technical for me though, I think mark, Maurice and probably others can give you better information than I can.

    This thread might get a good going over in the FTSC_PUBLIC area? There are a large number of folks in there that could answer questions more clearly and completely than I can.

    But.. we're also wondering about another system (running Mystic right? but perhaps earlier version?) that may be adding something to the way content is then displayed after packets pass though it.

    Do I have that summarized correctly? Al?

    Yes, I think you are upto speed.

    My summary:

    Mystic appears to be wrapping text when the message is saved. That is best done
    when the message is being viewed on the readers screen.

    Mystic also appears to be wrapping text in messages when it tosses them on to linked nodes. Message content should not be changed in transit.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Alan Ianson on Monday, April 15, 2019 03:41:15
    Hey Alan!

    Maurice and probably others can give you better information than
    I can.

    The only information I can add is that it was never about other's messages (ie the ones they create) but instead the messages I create that somewhere along the line got editted which should never happen. What was happening, and now seems to be fixed, was that \r's were added to my messages that weren't there to start with. That other's editors decide to wrap at 80 columns, or whatever amount of columns, is up to them despite my belief that it should never be done. I think it should be up to the viewer of messages that should decide where to wrap given the display the viewer is reading any particular message.

    That is my story and I am sticking with it.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Maurice Kinal on Sunday, April 14, 2019 21:38:46
    The only information I can add is that it was never about other's messages (ie
    the ones they create) but instead the messages I create that somewhere along the line got editted which should never happen.

    Yep, and not just your messages, any message that passes through.

    What was happening, and now seems to be fixed, was that \r's were added to
    my messages that weren't there to start with.

    Node links are a bit different just to gather information. The problem hasn't been fixed yet but I suspect it soon will be. Links here will soon look as they
    did before.

    That other's editors decide to wrap at 80 columns, or whatever amount of columns, is up to them despite my belief that it should never be done. I think it should be up to the viewer of messages that should decide where to wrap given the display the viewer is reading any particular message.

    Agreed. At one time I think most everyone had an 80 column screen, today they could be bigger or smaller in the case of a phone, tablet, or a wide screen display.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Alan Ianson on Monday, April 15, 2019 04:53:14
    Hey Alan!

    not just your messages, any message that passes through

    Right. I have the evidence to back that up.

    The problem hasn't been fixed yet but I suspect it soon will be.

    From this angle it looks fixed and for those downstream of any outstanding issue I hope your suspicion bears fruit.

    today they could be bigger or smaller in the case of a phone,
    tablet, or a wide screen display.

    It shouldn't be a problem if \r's are only used to terminate paragraphs rather then to hardcode end of line(s) that will only display properly on the 'correct' terminal.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Nancy Backus@1:229/452 to mark lewis on Thursday, April 18, 2019 14:45:06
    Quoting mark lewis to Maurice Kinal on 13-Apr-2019 11:42 <=-

    Jumping in a little late... ;)

    if that's the post i think it was, i included a graphic of a rainbow
    over a pot of gold...

    I saw that message... what showed up at Tiny's was this:

    ==== Begin "03-17.msg" ====


    5 ==== End "03-17.msg" ====

    From the context, and subsequent messages I knew what you were trying to
    do, but it didn't show properly any place I get messages... at least one
    place it was 5 4 3 2 1 in the line above the "End" line, twice (I
    think) it was the same string of numbers with two rectangle smiley faces
    after each number.... but no pot of gold.... sigh... :)

    ttyl neb

    ... When I contemplate the moon, my head aches [Galileo]

    --- EzyBlueWave V3.00 01FB001F
    * Origin: Tiny's BBS - http://www.tinysbbs.com (1:229/452)
  • From Nancy Backus@1:229/452 to Maurice Kinal on Thursday, April 18, 2019 14:53:42
    Quoting Maurice Kinal to mark lewis on 13-Apr-2019 18:00 <=-

    if that's the post i think it was, i included a graphic of a
    rainbow over a pot of gold...

    Yes that would be the msg in question. However the graphic is
    definetly grunged even when converted to utf8 from cp437. Is there an original I can have a looksee? If it contains any ansi escape
    sequences that is what would cause extreme grief as those will not
    work in fidonet messaging. Anyhow I have been able to convert cp437
    ansi files to utf8 ansi files in the past and the result is best
    viewed using stty.

    Not that I understand all that you are saying here, but I do know that
    messages with ansi in them (or composed of) do work in fidonet
    messaging... they are usually viewable as is on the bbs, and when I have
    them in my Bluewave Reader, I can press Alt-V to view it in all its
    glory....

    ttyl neb

    ... A back up in time, may save murder or crime.

    --- EzyBlueWave V3.00 01FB001F
    * Origin: Tiny's BBS - http://www.tinysbbs.com (1:229/452)