• non-CM nodes

    From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Wilfred van Velzen on Sunday, September 11, 2022 10:05:35
    30 Aug 2022 09:12, you wrote to me:

    How would you do (or are you doing) to make binkd only poll a
    non-CM node at its open hours?

    Do you have a non-CM link? Or is this a theoretical problem? ;)

    Theoretical. :-)

    Besides non-CM nodes, it could be useful for points...

    I can think of a batch/script that, after processing mail,
    renames the node's .?LO file to .HLO at the offline hours.

    That would be difficult to sync with binkd, that probably starts
    handling the files immediately when it's created by the tosser, and
    the .?SY files are deleted.

    I'm testing this with a CM link (renaming to .HLO just after tossing, and after packing netmail) and works fine.

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Tommi Koivula on Sunday, September 11, 2022 10:06:47
    30 Aug 2022 17:17, you wrote to me:

    How would you do (or are you doing) to make binkd only poll a non-CM
    node at its open hours?

    I don't see a problem to have my binkd to try n times and if failed,
    then hold for n minutes, and do that around the clock. It doesn't cost much. ;)

    If you don't mind filling your logs with retries...

    I can think of a batch/script that, after processing mail, renames
    the node's .?LO file to .HLO at the offline hours.

    Sure, why not.

    Seems to work fine.

    I ran a non-CM IP-node once, it was because my internet over ISDN was "free" from 17:00 to 07:00 and 24h weekends.

    Ah yes, for some time I also had an internet access like that, but with POTS.

    But why such a node nowadays?

    Reducing energy consumption (or the electricity bill), who knows...

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to All on Tuesday, August 30, 2022 08:14:20
    How would you do (or are you doing) to make binkd only poll a non-CM node at its open hours?

    I can think of a batch/script that, after processing mail, renames the node's .?LO file to .HLO at the offline hours.

    Any other way?

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Carlos Navarro on Tuesday, August 30, 2022 09:12:59
    Hi Carlos,

    On 2022-08-30 08:14:20, you wrote to All:

    How would you do (or are you doing) to make binkd only poll a non-CM
    node at its open hours?

    Do you have a non-CM link? Or is this a theoretical problem? ;)

    I can think of a batch/script that, after processing mail, renames the node's .?LO file to .HLO at the offline hours.

    That would be difficult to sync with binkd, that probably starts handling the files immediately when it's created by the tosser, and the .?SY files are deleted.

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Carlos Navarro on Tuesday, August 30, 2022 17:17:27
    On 30.8.2022 9.14, Carlos Navarro wrote:

    How would you do (or are you doing) to make binkd only poll a non-CM
    node at its open hours?

    I don't see a problem to have my binkd to try n times and if failed, then hold for n minutes, and do that around the clock. It doesn't cost much. ;)

    I can think of a batch/script that, after processing mail, renames
    the node's .?LO file to .HLO at the offline hours.

    Sure, why not.

    I ran a non-CM IP-node once, it was because my internet over ISDN was "free" from 17:00 to 07:00 and 24h weekends. But why such a node nowadays?

    'Tommi

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.2.0
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Carlos Navarro on Monday, September 12, 2022 10:23:35
    Hi Carlos,

    On 2022-09-11 10:05:35, you wrote to me:

    How would you do (or are you doing) to make binkd only poll a
    non-CM node at its open hours?

    Do you have a non-CM link? Or is this a theoretical problem? ;)

    Theoretical. :-)

    I think non-CM in combination with IBN, most of the time is an error in the nodelist. I never found a non-CM + IBN node that was actually just connectable at ZMH. And it doesn't make sense either. Non-CM used to exist for nodes with 1 phone line, that wanted to reserve the 1 line for BBS users. That doesn't make sense for IBN nodes. Where you can have as many concurrent TCP connections as you like on the "one" IP link.

    Besides non-CM nodes, it could be useful for points...

    Points that are not CM, should just poll their boss. ;-)

    I can think of a batch/script that, after processing mail,
    renames the node's .?LO file to .HLO at the offline hours.

    That would be difficult to sync with binkd, that probably starts
    handling the files immediately when it's created by the tosser, and
    the .?SY files are deleted.

    I'm testing this with a CM link (renaming to .HLO just after tossing, and after packing netmail) and works fine.

    Then you are just lucky, because no .?SY files are used, binkd could just grab the .?LO file, and do it's thing before your scripts rename them to .HLO...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Wilfred van Velzen on Monday, September 12, 2022 17:19:40
    Non-CM used to exist for nodes with 1 phone line, that wanted to reserve the 1 line for BBS users. That doesn't make sense for IBN nodes.

    Have you already forgotten about dial-up internet? :)


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Bjrn Felten on Monday, September 12, 2022 17:30:35
    Hi Bjrn,

    On 2022-09-12 17:19:40, you wrote to me:

    Non-CM used to exist for nodes with 1 phone line, that wanted to
    reserve the 1 line for BBS users. That doesn't make sense for IBN
    nodes.

    Have you already forgotten about dial-up internet? :)

    Does it still exist?

    I don't think those internet connections were used much for binkp connections. Was there even an overlapping time period, when dial-up internet was still a thing, and binkd was develloped already?

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Björn Felten on Monday, September 12, 2022 17:38:53
    Hello Bjrn,

    On Monday September 12 2022 17:19, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

    Non-CM used to exist for nodes with 1 phone line, that wanted to
    reserve the 1 line for BBS users. That doesn't make sense for
    IBN nodes.

    Have you already forgotten about dial-up internet? :)

    Yes, I forgot about it because it no longer exists here. Dial up internet only exists in combination with good old POTS and that is history in most parts of the world. I would not know of any provider here that still offers dial up internet. It makes no sense. Voice telephony is VOIP. Without a digital internet connection, you have no telephone. And that internet connection is a 24/7 connection. Here analog telephony only exist as the last decameter from the ATA next to the cable modem to the telephone on my desk. And that last analog decameter will be history in the near future too.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Bjrn Felten@2:203/2 to Wilfred van Velzen on Monday, September 12, 2022 20:03:45
    Have you already forgotten about dial-up internet? :)

    Does it still exist?

    I don't know. But since single phase 110V electrical installations still is the only available option (except for 2x110V from a mid tapped transformer) even for single home owners in some parts of the world, I would not rule it out. 8-)


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Monday, September 12, 2022 20:16:06
    MvdV> Yes, I forgot about it because it no longer exists here. Dial up
    MvdV> internet only exists in combination with good old POTS and that is
    MvdV> history in most parts of the world. I would not know of any provider
    MvdV> here that still offers dial up internet. It makes no sense. Voice
    MvdV> telephony is VOIP. Without a digital internet connection, you have no
    MvdV> telephone. And that internet connection is a 24/7 connection. Here
    MvdV> analog telephony only exist as the last decameter from the ATA next to
    MvdV> the cable modem to the telephone on my desk. And that last analog
    MvdV> decameter will be history in the near future too.

    I usually don't quote this much, but since I totally agree with everything you say, I couldn't trim the above.

    But I only want to add how easy it is for us Euro Trash Pacifist Shit Pig Pussies to forget how fortunate we are. I've lost count of the fibre adoption in Sweden, but last time I checked it was something like 90% of all households. I guess you in the Netherlands are not far behind?

    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Wilfred van Velzen on Monday, September 19, 2022 21:28:28
    12 Sep 2022 10:23, you wrote to me:

    How would you do (or are you doing) to make binkd only poll a
    non-CM node at its open hours?

    Do you have a non-CM link? Or is this a theoretical problem? ;)

    Theoretical. :-)

    I think non-CM in combination with IBN, most of the time is an error
    in the nodelist. I never found a non-CM + IBN node that was actually
    just connectable at ZMH. And it doesn't make sense either.

    A non-CM node doesn't have to be a ZMH-only node. As you know, it can carry the ,Tyz flag.
    A sysop may not want or need to have her system running 24 hours a day, for whatever reason.

    Besides non-CM nodes, it could be useful for points...

    Points that are not CM, should just poll their boss. ;-)

    IMO a boss and a point can make their connections in any way they agree... (Also, the point can be the sysop.)

    I'm testing this with a CM link (renaming to .HLO just after
    tossing, and after packing netmail) and works fine.

    Then you are just lucky, because no .?SY files are used, binkd could
    just grab the .?LO file, and do it's thing before your scripts rename
    them to .HLO...

    I may do some more tests, to see if can be less lucky... :-)

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Carlos Navarro on Tuesday, September 20, 2022 08:40:59
    Hi Carlos,

    On 2022-09-19 21:28:28, you wrote to me:

    I think non-CM in combination with IBN, most of the time is an error
    in the nodelist. I never found a non-CM + IBN node that was actually
    just connectable at ZMH. And it doesn't make sense either.

    A non-CM node doesn't have to be a ZMH-only node. As you know, it can carry
    the ,Tyz flag. A sysop may not want or need to have her system running 24 hours a day, for whatever reason.

    Either way, I have never seen this working correctly.

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Carlos Navarro on Tuesday, September 20, 2022 21:49:13
    Hello Carlos,

    On Monday September 19 2022 21:28, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

    I think non-CM in combination with IBN, most of the time is an
    error in the nodelist. I never found a non-CM + IBN node that was
    actually just connectable at ZMH. And it doesn't make sense
    either.

    A non-CM node doesn't have to be a ZMH-only node. As you know, it can carry the ,Tyz flag. A sysop may not want or need to have her system running 24 hours a day, for whatever reason.

    Theoretically that is possible and a non CM binkp node is not against the rules. But it is against common sense. Binkp connectibility requires an internet connection and these days internet connetions are up 24/7. It takes EFFORT to configure a binkp system for non CM operation, it strongy reduces connectivity and there are no benefits that I can see.

    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tuesday, September 20, 2022 21:47:09
    Michiel wrote (2022-09-20):

    A non-CM node doesn't have to be a ZMH-only node. As you know, it
    can carry the ,Tyz flag. A sysop may not want or need to have her
    system running 24 hours a day, for whatever reason.

    MvdV> Theoretically that is possible and a non CM binkp node is not against the
    MvdV> rules. But it is against common sense. Binkp connectibility requires an
    MvdV> internet connection and these days internet connetions are up 24/7. It
    MvdV> takes EFFORT to configure a binkp system for non CM operation, it strongy
    MvdV> reduces connectivity and there are no benefits that I can see.

    We have to save energy. I'm not reading my mails after midnight, why not put the computer to sleep as well.

    ---
    * Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (2:280/464.47)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Wilfred van Velzen on Tuesday, September 13, 2022 13:21:06
    Wilfred wrote (2022-09-12):

    Was there even an overlapping time period, when dial-up
    internet was still a thing, and binkd was develloped already?

    Yes, in 1996 internet over dial-up and ISDN was the only option for most users at home.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binkp

    ---
    * Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (2:280/464.47)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Oli on Tuesday, September 13, 2022 14:29:24
    Hi Oli,

    On 2022-09-13 13:21:06, you wrote to me:

    Was there even an overlapping time period, when dial-up
    internet was still a thing, and binkd was develloped already?

    Yes, in 1996 internet over dial-up and ISDN was the only option for most users at home.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binkp

    At that time most bbs's were still dial-up, so users/sysops didn't need the internet to connect to other nodes.

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Björn Felten on Tuesday, September 13, 2022 13:50:11
    Hello Bjrn,

    On Monday September 12 2022 20:16, you wrote to me:

    I usually don't quote this much, but since I totally agree with everything you say, I couldn't trim the above.

    ;-)

    But I only want to add how easy it is for us Euro Trash Pacifist Shit
    Pig Pussies

    ;-)

    to forget how fortunate we are. I've lost count of the fibre adoption
    in Sweden, but last time I checked it was something like 90% of all households. I guess you in the Netherlands are not far behind?

    We are behind but not all that far. 90% fibre adoption is estimated to be reached in 2025. A fibre company is presently digging in my village and they are expected to reach my street in October. With a bit of luck the connection will be operational before Alla helgons dag.

    Until then I have a robust internet connection via cable. Had it for 15 years or so. Before that: ADSL over twisted pair.

    The good old twisted pair originally designed for POTS is being fased out. In new building areas twisted pair is no longer offered, the choice is between cable and fibre. In other places where fibre is installed the twisted pair is decommissioned and the copper is salvaged for reuse wherever practical.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tuesday, September 13, 2022 17:54:45
    MvdV> before Alla helgons dag.

    LOL! Thanks, I love it. <3

    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Michiel van der Vlist on Wednesday, September 14, 2022 20:19:00
    On 09-12-22 17:38, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Bjrn Felten <=-

    analog telephony only exist as the last decameter from the ATA next to the cable modem to the telephone on my desk. And that last analog decameter will be history in the near future too.

    Not even that here, the landline is a DECT handset. While I have a couple of analogue phone ports, they are currently unused.


    ... Operating system overwritten. Terribly sorry.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Tony Langdon on Wednesday, September 14, 2022 16:51:02
    Hello Tony,

    On Wednesday September 14 2022 20:19, you wrote to me:

    analog telephony only exist as the last decameter from the ATA
    next to the cable modem to the telephone on my desk. And that
    last analog decameter will be history in the near future too.

    Not even that here, the landline is a DECT handset.

    That too is a transition step. The next logical step is cordless VOIP telephones that directly connect via the WiFi mesh network in the house.

    While I have a couple of analogue phone ports, they are currently
    unused.

    I still have an analog PABX is use, but it is nearing end of life...


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Michiel van der Vlist on Wednesday, September 21, 2022 19:21:00
    On 09-14-22 16:51, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    analog telephony only exist as the last decameter from the ATA
    next to the cable modem to the telephone on my desk. And that
    last analog decameter will be history in the near future too.

    Not even that here, the landline is a DECT handset.

    That too is a transition step. The next logical step is cordless VOIP telephones that directly connect via the WiFi mesh network in the
    house.

    I have softphones on devices as well that act as cordless wifi handsets.

    While I have a couple of analogue phone ports, they are currently
    unused.

    I still have an analog PABX is use, but it is nearing end of life...

    I've never had one of those. Any PBXs I've played with have been digital (software or embedded).


    ... The truth is the safest lie.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Oli on Wednesday, September 21, 2022 16:59:10
    Hello Oli,

    On Tuesday September 20 2022 21:47, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> Theoretically that is possible and a non CM binkp node is not
    MvdV>> against the rules. But it is against common sense. Binkp
    MvdV>> connectibility requires an internet connection and these days
    MvdV>> internet connetions are up 24/7. It takes EFFORT to configure a
    MvdV>> binkp system for non CM operation, it strongy reduces
    MvdV>> connectivity and there are no benefits that I can see.

    We have to save energy. I'm not reading my mails after midnight, why
    not put the computer to sleep as well.

    Because it would seriously degrade my connectivity. The switch from dial up connection via analog POTS to a "wideband" internet connection brought greater speed, but for Fidonet the main improvement was going to 24/7 connectivity without additional cost. That was a major change for the better and the Fidoweb as we have it now would be impossible without it. Going back to non 24/7 connectivity is not an option for me. I may consider moving from a full desktop to a Raspbery Pi for the node. It only takes 5 Watt.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Angel Ripoll@2:341/66 to Michiel Van Der Vlist on Wednesday, September 21, 2022 18:09:48
    Hola Michiel!

    21 Sep 22 16:59, Michiel van der Vlist dijo a Oli:

    MvdV> brought greater speed, but for Fidonet the main improvement was going to
    MvdV> 24/7 connectivity without additional cost. That was a major change for

    The cost of electricity. A computer to host the system can consume more than 100 KWh per month.

    MvdV> consider moving from a full desktop to a Raspbery Pi for the node. It
    MvdV> only takes 5 Watt.

    Less than that. My node is in a raspi 4 and is consuming an average power of 3.3W, which gives an average consumption of less than 2.5 KWh per month. Much difference. I've been measuring it for over two months.

    Un saludo,
    Angel Ripoll
    aripoll @ zruspas.org

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20220504 + HPT 1.9 + Binkd 1.1 en Debian
    * Origin: Synchronet - bbs.zruspas.org - Zruspa's BBS - (2:341/66)