What "figures" is that you selectively snip

I selectively quote only what I am commenting.

That's Fidonet Quoting 1.01. You should try it sometimes...



..

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needed as per P4.8.1

What would the IC's role be?

Take a wild guess. 8-)



..

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The concept of power related to a coordinator position, and hence
the abuse of such imagined power, is nothing but a figment of
your imagination. The higher the *C is in the hierarchy, the more
of a victim he/she is. You don't have to take my word for it.
Just ask your own ZC.

Nothing of what you wrote above does anything to address the question/statement that I wrote. Just more diversion and
deception, as usual.

You wrote a blanket statement, Dan, just a statement. You didn't demonstrate anything.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

needed as per P4.8.1

What would the IC's role be?

Take a wild guess. 8-)

Make certain there's enough beer? 8-)

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Make certain there's enough beer? 8-)

I always have more than enough!



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Make certain there's enough beer? 8-)

I always have more than enough!

Hmmmm ... is that a challenge ?

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Coin Tosser?

Terry

On Apr 03, 2019 07:22am, David Drummond wrote to Bj�rn Felten:

On 3/04/2019 06:05, 2:203/2 wrote:

Just for fun ... A number of the powers that used to be, aren't
anymore.
Plus some loudmouthers as well...

OK, let's play.

What are the chances that the present ZC structure can revive the
ZCC and select an IC (needed as per P4.8.1?

What would the IC's role be?

--

Gang warily
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0 * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

Terry - 3:640/1231 (tfb-bbs.org)

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)

Coin Tosser?

Gott wirft keine W�rfel.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello David,

Just for fun ... A number of the powers that used to be, aren't

anymore.

Plus some loudmouthers as well...

OK, let's play.

What are the chances that the present ZC structure can revive the
ZCC and select an IC (needed as per P4.8.1?

What would the IC's role be?

To scratch his own balls?

--Lee

--
It Ain't Payday If It Ain't Nuts In Your Mouth

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Dan,

Unfortunately a bunch of RCs came out of the woodwork and hijacked

our

policy change attempt, adding all kinds of more or less stupid

additional

changes. Needless to say, it all crashed miserably, leaving us with

the

present dinosaur in effect still today.

Yeah what a damn shame that democracy overcame dictatorship, eh?

Huey P. Long was the best dictator Louisiana ever had.
Woulda replaced FDR as president had a mad doctor not shot
his penis off (Long died later at a hospital from loss
of blood).

Earl K. Long was actually the smarter dictator, having run
the governor's office from an insane asylum. Got himself out,
thanks to his stripper girlfriend who reminding him he could
fire the doctor who had put him there.

We could always have another go at it ... 8-)

Wait, aren't you guys that are totally against ANY changes in
FidoNet, NO-MATTER-WHAT?

What we have in office today (as president) is another Huey P. Long.
However, he is much more limited, always dependent on a teleprompter
to tell him what to do or what to say.

I guess it's just that you're against any change that *YOU* don't initiate.

Huey P. Long was impeached.
What did he do about it?
He made sure there was no trial.

Earl K. Long was declared nuts.
What did he do about it?
Ran his office from the nuthouse.
Then got himself out by firing
the guy who put him there.

See how that works?
Dictators know what they are doing.
And never take "No" for an answer.

--Lee

--
Sleep With Someone New

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Ward,

We could always have another go at it ... 8-)

It's almost 20 years too late. :(

Just for fun ... A number of the powers that used to be, aren't anymore. Plus some loudmouthers as well...

Where is Roy Witt when you need him most?

--Lee

--
We Make Your Wet Dreams Come True

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Ward,

Unfortunately a bunch of RCs came out of the woodwork and hijacked our
policy change attempt, adding all kinds of more or less stupid additional
changes. Needless to say, it all crashed miserably, leaving us with the
present dinosaur in effect still today.

We could always have another go at it ... 8-)

The White Flag Principle is what wins wars.

Worked for Germany.
Worked for Japan.
Worked for Italy.
And worked for many others.

Winning by losing is the way to go. Peter Sellers showed us how,
playing three different characters in "The Mouse That Roared".

Okay, the sequel sucked. But still ...

--Lee

--
Your Hole Is Our Goal

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Bj�rn,

Just for fun ... A number of the powers that used to be, aren't
anymore.
Plus some loudmouthers as well...

OK, let's play.

What are the chances that the present ZC structure can revive the ZCC and select an IC (needed as per P4.8.1?

Z4 folds into Z3.
Z3 folds into Z2.
Z2 folds into Z1.

With only Z1 remaining, Nick Andre wins hands down.

Of course, he would then have to revise P4 so that his
victory would count. But other than that ...

--Lee

--
Stop Workin', Start Jerkin'

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 3/04/2019 11:39, Dan Clough -> David Drummond wrote:

What are the chances that the present ZC structure can revive the
ZCC and select an IC (needed as per P4.8.1?

What would the IC's role be?

That is clearly defined in P4.

Only if one has a copy to hand - or do you have the entire document memorised?

I thought you knew everything?

I guess you're wrong again...

--

Gang warily
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

On 3/04/2019 12:35, mark lewis -> David Drummond wrote:

What are the chances that the present ZC structure can revive the ZCC
and select an IC (needed as per P4.8.1?

What would the IC's role be?

really? have you still not read the policy document that defines our network?

I have never considered the document of sufficient importance that I should memorise it. And I did not have a copy immediately to hand.

the ICs role is clearly defined in there...

Pol 4.8 discussed the IC's role as facilitator of Policy changes (yes, I located a copy).

--

Gang warily
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

On 3/04/2019 14:51, 2:203/2 wrote:

needed as per P4.8.1

What would the IC's role be?

Take a wild guess. 8-)

Barman?

I have now located a copy of Pol 4 and understand what role you were alluding to.

--

Gang warily
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

On 3/04/2019 16:49, 2:203/2 wrote:

Make certain there's enough beer? 8-)

I always have more than enough!

Swedish beer?

How does that rate compare with the Belgian stuff?

--

Gang warily
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

On 3/04/2019 17:45, TERRY ROATI -> David Drummond wrote:

Coin Tosser?

Terry

What would the IC's role be?

Or "He who beats his/her head against a wall"?

--

Gang warily
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

On 4/04/2019 01:49, Lee Lofaso -> David Drummond wrote:

OK, let's play.

What are the chances that the present ZC structure can revive the
ZCC and select an IC (needed as per P4.8.1?

What would the IC's role be?

To scratch his own balls?

More likely to have success at that than the "mandated" role.

--

Gang warily
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

On 4/04/2019 01:50, Lee Lofaso -> Ward Dossche wrote:

We could always have another go at it ... 8-)

It's almost 20 years too late. :(

Just for fun ... A number of the powers that used to be, aren't anymore.
Plus some loudmouthers as well...

Where is Roy Witt when you need him most?

Speak to the necromancers.

--

Gang warily
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

David Drummond wrote to Dan Clough <=-

What are the chances that the present ZC structure can revive the
ZCC and select an IC (needed as per P4.8.1?

What would the IC's role be?

That is clearly defined in P4.

Only if one has a copy to hand - or do you have the entire
document memorised?

Your logic is quite flawed. Whether one has a copy at hand or not
does not change the fact that the IC's role is clearly defined in
P4, which is what I said. Read what somebody *SAYS*, not what you
think they said, or what helps you twist things up to make a
point.

Another clue that you missed was where Bjorn even stated where the
IC role is discussed in P4 (even though he got the section wrong).

I thought you knew everything?

I guess you're wrong again...

First time for everything...


... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Another clue that you missed was where Bjorn even stated where the
IC role is discussed in P4 (even though he got the section wrong).

I never get anything P4-related wrong. That can only lead to one conclusion...



..

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Only if one has a copy to hand - or do you have the entire document memorised?

I still do -- and, after almost 30 continuous years as *C (including the heydays when PCs were dropping in like a drizzle), I almost have.



..

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On 4/04/2019 11:55, Dan Clough -> David Drummond wrote:

What would the IC's role be?

That is clearly defined in P4.

Only if one has a copy to hand - or do you have the entire
document memorised?

Your logic is quite flawed. Whether one has a copy at hand or not
does not change the fact that the IC's role is clearly defined in
P4, which is what I said.

And if one does not have a copy to hand nor has the document memorised then how
does one know the documented role?

If a tree falls over in the forest and no-one witnesses it, did it make a noise.

Read what somebody *SAYS*, not what you
think they said, or what helps you twist things up to make a
point.

You would well benefit from the same advice.

Another clue that you missed was where Bjorn even stated where the
IC role is discussed in P4 (even though he got the section wrong).

Read it again = he did have it right.

--

Gang warily
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

On 4/04/2019 18:21, 2:203/2 wrote:

Another clue that you missed was where Bjorn even stated where the
IC role is discussed in P4 (even though he got the section wrong).

I never get anything P4-related wrong. That can only lead to one conclusion...

Dan was mistaken again.

--

Gang warily
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

I never get anything P4-related wrong. That can only lead to one
conclusion...

Dan was mistaken again.

That would be my conclusion, yes. 8-)



..

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* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

David Drummond wrote to Dan Clough <=-

What would the IC's role be?

That is clearly defined in P4.

Only if one has a copy to hand - or do you have the entire
document memorised?

Your logic is quite flawed. Whether one has a copy at hand or not
does not change the fact that the IC's role is clearly defined in
P4, which is what I said.

And if one does not have a copy to hand nor has the document
memorised then how does one know the documented role?

That's a seperate question that was not the topic of discussion.
You seem to have a reading comprehension problem, so I'll try to
lay it out more simply for you:

What you claimed (right there above, since I didn't Bjorn-snip it
out), is that the IC's role is only defined in P4 *IF* one has a copy
of P4 at hand. That is false. The IC's role is clearly defined
in P4 *WHETHER* *OR* *NOT* you have a copy of P4 at hand. See?

If a tree falls over in the forest and no-one witnesses it, did
it make a noise.

Irrelevant diversion attempt noted... the answer is "yes".

Read what somebody *SAYS*, not what you
think they said, or what helps you twist things up to make a
point.

You would well benefit from the same advice.

Could you please point out where I have mis-read what you've said?

Another clue that you missed was where Bjorn even stated where the
IC role is discussed in P4 (even though he got the section wrong).

Read it again = he did have it right.

Nope. Section 8.1 that he references describes how a Policy
change might be initiated.

The *ROLE* of the IC, which is what this whole thread is about
(regardless of the diversion attempts), is described in Section 7.

You're welcome.



... If it weren't for Edison we'd be using computers by candlelight
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Bj�rn Felten wrote to David Drummond <=-

I never get anything P4-related wrong. That can only lead to one
conclusion...

Dan was mistaken again.

That would be my conclusion, yes. 8-)

You're both wrong, again.

The IC's role is layed out in Section 7. Not in 8.1 as you said.

You're welcome.



... Pros are those who do their jobs well, even when they don't feel like it. === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

The IC's role is layed out in Section 7. Not in 8.1 as you said.

Just as David and I both expected -- you jumped into the discussion without realizing what role for the IC the rest of us were discussing.





..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
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Nope. Section 8.1 that he references describes how a Policy
change might be initiated.

WOW! I think he got it without even realizing it.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
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The *ROLE* of the IC, which is what this whole thread is about

Strangely enough, when back-tracing the comments here (you *DO* have a modern FTN editor that does comment linking, don't you?) one of the first comments you made was to Wards comment to my original posting about policy change:

WD> We could always have another go at it ... 8-)

So not only have you forgotten what you wrote just two days ago, you even are making a common mark diversion, claiming that you know what the whole thread is all about?

Sorry son, but methinks you have to stay back when the adults keep discussing matters way above your head.


..

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* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 2019 Apr 04 07:56:38, you wrote to Dan Clough:

What would the IC's role be?

That is clearly defined in P4.

Only if one has a copy to hand

your NC should have it available... oh, wait... you are your NC... hummm...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... The BBC would like to apologize for that last apology.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 2019 Apr 04 07:59:26, you wrote to me:

What would the IC's role be?

really? have you still not read the policy document that defines our
network?

I have never considered the document of sufficient importance that I should memorise it.

no one has said that it should be memorized... only that it should be available
if someone needs a copy or even just to read...

And I did not have a copy immediately to hand.

that can easily be remedied... i have copies of all four policy documents and can easily drop one or more off in your inbound if you like ;)

the ICs role is clearly defined in there...

Pol 4.8 discussed the IC's role as facilitator of Policy changes

yes, that's one part of the role...

(yes, I located a copy).

yay! :)

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Two most common elements: Hydrogen and Stupidity.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Australians throw dice and coins, that's why two up used to be a very popular method of gaming of throwing 3 coins in the air and betting on the result.

Terry

On Apr 03, 2019 02:49pm, Bj�rn Felten wrote to TERRY ROATI:

Coin Tosser?

Gott wirft keine W�rfel.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125 * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Terry - 3:640/1231 (tfb-bbs.org)

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)

On 4/04/2019 22:53, Dan Clough -> David Drummond wrote:

And if one does not have a copy to hand nor has the document
memorised then how does one know the documented role?

That's a seperate question that was not the topic of discussion.
You seem to have a reading comprehension problem, so I'll try to
lay it out more simply for you:

What you claimed (right there above, since I didn't Bjorn-snip it
out), is that the IC's role is only defined in P4 *IF* one has a copy
of P4 at hand. That is false. The IC's role is clearly defined
in P4 *WHETHER* *OR* *NOT* you have a copy of P4 at hand. See?

It might mean that to you, however, if I am unaware of what the role was, and did not have the document to advise me, then I do not acknowledge that supposed
role.

In the imaginary world of Fidonet I am the supreme lord of my system. IF I do not perceive a rule/edict then it does NOT exist at my system.

[...]

Another clue that you missed was where Bjorn even stated where the
IC role is discussed in P4 (even though he got the section wrong).

Read it again = he did have it right.

Nope. Section 8.1 that he references describes how a Policy
change might be initiated.

The *ROLE* of the IC, which is what this whole thread is about
(regardless of the diversion attempts), is described in Section 7.

Bj�rn WAS discussing policy changes at the time he made that comment. Section 8
was the correct answer.

Of course YOU may have been discussing something else entirely.

--

Gang warily
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

On 4/04/2019 22:58, 1:123/115 wrote:

I never get anything P4-related wrong. That can only lead to one
conclusion...

Dan was mistaken again.

That would be my conclusion, yes. 8-)

You're both wrong, again.

So... you know what Bj�rn was alluding to over and above what he thinks he was alluding to?

You are WRONG once more

The IC's role is layed out in Section 7. Not in 8.1 as you said.

Not when it comes to policy changes.

--

Gang warily
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

On 5/04/2019 01:28, mark lewis -> David Drummond wrote:

What would the IC's role be?

That is clearly defined in P4.

Only if one has a copy to hand

your NC should have it available... oh, wait... you are your NC...

hummm...

And surprise, surprise, I did find a copy to hand.

"Seek and ye shall find" is written somewhere, and sometimes it works.

--

Gang warily
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

On 5/04/2019 01:29, mark lewis -> David Drummond wrote:

What would the IC's role be?

really? have you still not read the policy document that defines our
network?

I have never considered the document of sufficient importance that I
should memorise it.

no one has said that it should be memorized... only that it should be available if someone needs a copy or even just to read...

Considering that my system does not entertain freqs then there are no documents
available there-on.

Maybe Fidonet.io should have an HTML version there-of.

And I did not have a copy immediately to hand.

that can easily be remedied... i have copies of all four policy
documents and can easily drop one or more off in your inbound if you
like ;)

I am nearly always remote from my system so ...

the ICs role is clearly defined in there...

Pol 4.8 discussed the IC's role as facilitator of Policy changes

yes, that's one part of the role...

Indeed, the exact part that Bj�rn was referencing.

If not for arbitrating proposed policy changes we don't need an IC so any other
supposed role is redundant.

(yes, I located a copy).

yay! :)

Ask me about it again next month and it will have hidden itself again :(

--

Gang warily
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

Bj�rn Felten -> Ward Dossche skrev 2019-04-02 09:26:

Just make sure they're not taking P4 too seriously.

Whenever I hear that bullshit statement quoted my stomach turns ...

Then you are breaking Felten's Rule #4 (as per above).

In case anyone should wonder how this rule came to be, this quote from Fidonews Vol. 9 No. 52 (28 December 1992) will explain it:


/*********************************************************************
* IMPORTANT NOTE: The FidoNet address for FidoNews has been changed. *
* The new address is: *
* *
* FidoNews = 1:1/23 *
* *
* Starting January 1993 email sent to the old address will not be *
* forwarded! You were warned! * *********************************************************************/

It took just two and a half years to start ignoring P4, that says that the Fidonews should be at 1:1/1.

When I became Fidonews Editor in 2002, it became even more obvious why hard coding the Fidonews address into P4 was a mistake. By then it was unthinkable that anyone but someone from zone 1 could ever be the editor. And yes, for a few months there was one, a handful of years before me, but he never really acted as one.

With the help from Ward we tried to make the first change to P4 for more than a decade, suggesting that the Fidonews Editor should have the ZIN node number z:z/z rather than the 1:1/1. Even in 2002 the idea about Zone Gates were
totally obsolete, but a few ZCs hadn't realized it yet.

The z:z/z node numbers were reserved for Zone Gates. If you look at today's Zone 4 entry, you can see how it used to be 20 years ago. Hey Manuel, welcome to the 21st century.

Unfortunately a bunch of RCs came out of the woodwork and hijacked our policy change attempt, adding all kinds of more or less stupid additional changes. Needless to say, it all crashed miserably, leaving us with the present
dinosaur in effect still today.





..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Unfortunately a bunch of RCs came out of the woodwork and hijacked our policy change attempt, adding all kinds of more or less stupid additional changes. Needless to say, it all crashed miserably, leaving us with the present dinosaur in effect still today.

We could always have another go at it ... 8-)

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

We could always have another go at it ... 8-)

It's almost 20 years too late. :(



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On Tue Apr-02-2019 10:09, Bj�rn Felten (2:203/2) wrote to Bj�rn Felten:

Bj�rn Felten -> Ward Dossche skrev 2019-04-02 09:26:

[...]

Unfortunately a bunch of RCs came out of the woodwork and
hijacked our policy change attempt, adding all kinds of more or
less stupid additional changes. Needless to say, it all crashed
miserably, leaving us with the present dinosaur in effect still
today.

Was it as bad as The Hut Sut song?


Regards,

Roger (-:
--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LoUiSiAna - (1:3828/7)

We could always have another go at it ... 8-)

It's almost 20 years too late. :(

Just for fun ... A number of the powers that used to be, aren't anymore. Plus some loudmouthers as well...

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Ward Dossche wrote to Bj�rn Felten <=-

Unfortunately a bunch of RCs came out of the woodwork and hijacked our policy change attempt, adding all kinds of more or less stupid additional changes. Needless to say, it all crashed miserably, leaving us with the present dinosaur in effect still today.

Yeah what a damn shame that democracy overcame dictatorship, eh?

We could always have another go at it ... 8-)

Wait, aren't you guys that are totally against ANY changes in
FidoNet, NO-MATTER-WHAT?

I guess it's just that you're against any change that *YOU* don't
initiate.



... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
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Yeah what a damn shame that democracy overcame dictatorship, eh?

Let me see now. The dictators overcame all the grunt sysops and you call *that* democracy? Figures...



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

We could always have another go at it ... 8-)

Wait, aren't you guys that are totally against ANY changes in
FidoNet, NO-MATTER-WHAT?

I guess it's just that you're against any change that *YOU* don't
initiate.

The success, or lack of it, in a Fidonet context has always been decided by people voting with their feet. They either went one way or they went another way.

The concept of power related to a coordinator position, and hence the abuse of such imagined power, is nothing but a figment of your imagination. The higher the *C is in the hierarchy, the more of a victim he/she is. You don't have to take my word for it. Just ask your own ZC.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Just for fun ... A number of the powers that used to be, aren't anymore. Plus some loudmouthers as well...

OK, let's play.

What are the chances that the present ZC structure can revive the ZCC and select an IC (needed as per P4.8.1?




..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 3/04/2019 06:05, 2:203/2 wrote:

Just for fun ... A number of the powers that used to be, aren't anymore.
Plus some loudmouthers as well...

OK, let's play.

What are the chances that the present ZC structure can revive the
ZCC and select an IC (needed as per P4.8.1?

What would the IC's role be?

--

Gang warily
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

What are the chances that the present ZC structure can revive the ZCC
and select an IC (needed as per P4.8.1?

The ZCC does not need reviving as it is 'alive and kicking'. It could just proceed like that with the election of an IC tomorrow if it so wanted.

Shouldn't take that long. 3 of the 4 ZC are reading here ...

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

David,

What are the chances that the present ZC structure can revive the DD>BF> ZCC and select an IC (needed as per P4.8.1?

What would the IC's role be?

Bjorn already said it ... P4.8.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

David Drummond wrote to Bj�rn Felten <=-

What are the chances that the present ZC structure can revive the
ZCC and select an IC (needed as per P4.8.1?

What would the IC's role be?

That is clearly defined in P4.

I thought you knew everything?



... Internal Error: The system has been taken over by sheep at line 19960
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Bj�rn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Yeah what a damn shame that democracy overcame dictatorship, eh?

Let me see now. The dictators overcame all the grunt sysops
and you call *that* democracy? Figures...

What "figures" is that you selectively snip so the context is
missing. Again. To twist things the way you want them to be.

I won't bother re-quoting what the relevant part is/was, because
you already know.



... Internal Error: The system has been taken over by sheep at line 19960
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Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

>WD> We could always have another go at it ... 8-)

Wait, aren't you guys that are totally against ANY changes in
FidoNet, NO-MATTER-WHAT?

I guess it's just that you're against any change that *YOU* don't initiate.

The success, or lack of it, in a Fidonet context has always been
decided by people voting with their feet. They either went one
way or they went another way.

The concept of power related to a coordinator position, and hence
the abuse of such imagined power, is nothing but a figment of
your imagination. The higher the *C is in the hierarchy, the more
of a victim he/she is. You don't have to take my word for it.
Just ask your own ZC.

Nothing of what you wrote above does anything to address the question/statement that I wrote. Just more diversion and
deception, as usual.

<YAWN>



... Internal Error: The system has been taken over by sheep at line 19960
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* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

On 2019 Apr 03 07:22:54, you wrote to Bj�rn Felten:

What are the chances that the present ZC structure can revive the ZCC
and select an IC (needed as per P4.8.1?

What would the IC's role be?

really? have you still not read the policy document that defines our network? the ICs role is clearly defined in there...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... I'd rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)