• Is the USA violating the Geneva Convention? :)

    From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to All on Friday, February 15, 2019 17:47:47
    I found this in the Geneva Convention:

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Geneva_Convention_on_Road_Traffic

    Article 9

    1. All vehicular traffic proceeding in the same direction on any road shall keep to the same side of the road, which shall be uniform in each country for all roads.

    Well, the citizens of the U.S Virgin Island are US citizens. Yet they drive on the left side!

    Isn't that a violation of the above Article 9?




    ..

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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Björn Felten on Friday, February 15, 2019 18:21:33
    Well, the citizens of the U.S Virgin Island are US citizens. Yet they
    drive on the left side!

    Isn't that a violation of the above Article 9?

    Can they vote in prez elections ?

    \%/@rd

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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Björn Felten on Friday, February 15, 2019 11:23:00
    Bjrn Felten wrote to All <=-

    I found this in the Geneva Convention:

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Geneva_Convention_on_Road_Traffic

    Article 9

    1. All vehicular traffic proceeding in the same direction on any
    road shall keep to the same side of the road, which shall be
    uniform in each country for all roads.

    Well, the citizens of the U.S Virgin Island are US citizens.
    Yet they drive on the left side!

    Isn't that a violation of the above Article 9?

    No, it isn't.

    Keep your USA-bashing to yourself, and stay on-topic for this
    echo, if you don't mind.



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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Friday, February 15, 2019 20:14:27
    Hello Bjrn,

    I found this in the Geneva Convention:

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Geneva_Convention_on_Road_Traffic

    Article 9

    1. All vehicular traffic proceeding in the same direction on any road
    shall
    keep to the same side of the road, which shall be uniform in each country for all roads.

    Well, the citizens of the U.S Virgin Island are US citizens. Yet they
    drive
    on the left side!

    Isn't that a violation of the above Article 9?

    The US Virgin Islands is not a country. It is a US territory.
    Just like Puerto Rico. Folks can drive on whatever side of the
    road they want. Whenever they want.

    Now it does get a bit confusing when it comes to American Samoa.
    Unlike Puerto Ricans, who are citizens of the USA, American Samoans
    are nationals, and not US citizens. Even though Dwayne "The Rock"
    Johnson can be elected President of the United States.

    Have you ever seen Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson drive a car?
    He can go fast. Really fast. Even faster than Vin Diesel.
    Fast and furious, all over the road ...

    --Lee

    --
    Nobody Beats Our Meat

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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Friday, February 15, 2019 20:37:24
    Can they vote in prez elections ?

    No, but they can vote in the presidential primary elections for delegates to
    the respective national conventions. It's a mess...



    ..

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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Friday, February 15, 2019 20:38:41
    Keep your USA-bashing to yourself, and stay on-topic for this
    echo, if you don't mind.

    Keep your paranoia to yourself. As the moderator *I* decide what's allowed here, not you. If you don't like it, vote with your feet.




    ..

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Friday, February 15, 2019 21:58:14
    Hello Bjrn,

    I found this in the Geneva Convention:

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Geneva_Convention_on_Road_Traffic

    Article 9

    1. All vehicular traffic proceeding in the same direction on any road
    shall
    keep to the same side of the road, which shall be uniform in each country for all roads.

    Well, the citizens of the U.S Virgin Island are US citizens. Yet they
    drive
    on the left side!

    One more time. Not all citizens of the US Virgin Islands are
    residents of a US state. And only residents of a US state (or
    Washington DC) can vote for prez. Even though residents of the
    US Virgin Islands are US citizens. Unnerstan'?

    Isn't that a violation of the above Article 9?

    Of course. But please. Let's not forget about those who ride
    bicycles -

    Article 26

    Every cycle shall be equipped with:
    (a) at least one efficient brake;
    (b) an audible warning device consisting of a bell, to the
    exclusion of any other audible warning device, capable of
    being heard at a reasonable distance;
    (c) a white or yellow light in front and a red light or a red
    reflex reflector in the rear from nightfall and during the
    night or when atmospheric conditions render it necessary.

    Yeah, US citizens are a bunch of lawbreakers. Shame on us!

    --Lee

    --
    Change Is Cumming

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Friday, February 15, 2019 21:58:20
    Hello Dan,

    I found this in the Geneva Convention:

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Geneva_Convention_on_Road_Traffic

    Article 9

    1. All vehicular traffic proceeding in the same direction on any
    road shall keep to the same side of the road, which shall be
    uniform in each country for all roads.

    Well, the citizens of the U.S Virgin Island are US citizens.
    Yet they drive on the left side!

    Isn't that a violation of the above Article 9?

    No, it isn't.

    The US Virgin Islands is not a country.
    Only US citizens who are residents of a US state (or DC) can
    vote for members of Congress or for President of the United States.
    Not all residents of the US Virgin Islands are residents of a US
    state.

    Keep your USA-bashing to yourself, and stay on-topic for this
    echo, if you don't mind.

    What USA-bashing might that be?

    --Lee

    --
    Sleep With Someone New

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Friday, February 15, 2019 21:58:26
    Hello Ward,

    Well, the citizens of the U.S Virgin Island are US citizens. Yet they
    drive on the left side!

    Isn't that a violation of the above Article 9?

    Can they vote in prez elections ?

    Yes. But only if they become a resident of a US state.

    --Lee

    --
    It Ain't Payday If It Ain't Nuts In Your Mouth

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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Lee Lofaso on Friday, February 15, 2019 22:12:58
    Can they vote in prez elections ?

    Yes. But only if they become a resident of a US state.

    OTOH, women could not vote either, just a century ago. But they still had to
    drive on the right side of the road. :)



    ..

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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Björn Felten on Friday, February 15, 2019 16:40:00
    Bjrn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Keep your USA-bashing to yourself, and stay on-topic for this
    echo, if you don't mind.

    Keep your paranoia to yourself. As the moderator *I* decide
    what's allowed here, not you. If you don't like it, vote with
    your feet.

    Paranoia? Where'd you get that? Nothing "paranoid" about my statement/request. That's about all you post here, is negative
    stuff about the US. Can you say "obsession"?

    Yeah, I know you're the moderator. You're not doing your job.



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  • From Joacim Melin@2:201/120 to Bj÷rn Felten on Saturday, February 16, 2019 11:48:14
    To chime in with a earlier post in this echo: let's move this to the politics echo. This has very little, if anything, to do with Fidonews.

    But, to each his own and I guess it's up to the moderator to decide what's right here.


    --- NiKom v2.5.0
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  • From Joacim Melin@2:201/120 to Bj÷rn Felten on Saturday, February 16, 2019 11:49:43
    Keep your USA-bashing to yourself, and stay on-topic for this
    echo, if you don't mind.

    Keep your paranoia to yourself. As the moderator *I* decide what's allowed here, not you. If you don't like it, vote with your feet.




    ..

    Even though my and Dan's political views most likely does not align I have to say I agree - AFAIK you allowing all kinds of political debate here may be in violation of the rules of the echo itself? There is a politics echo - let's use it and focus this echo on Fidonews.


    --- NiKom v2.5.0
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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Joacim Melin on Saturday, February 16, 2019 13:19:33
    To chime in with a earlier post in this echo: let's move this to the politics echo.

    This is not about politics, it's about community information.

    How many people -- even in the USA -- do you think know that people in a US territory drives on the left side. How many do you think even know where the Virgin Islands is located and how things are there...?

    This has very little, if anything, to do with Fidonews.

    As long as nobody writes any articles to discuss, then there would be very quiet in this echo, no?



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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Joacim Melin on Saturday, February 16, 2019 13:21:34
    AFAIK you allowing all kinds of political debate here may be in
    violation of the rules of the echo itself?

    You know wrong:

    3. Discuss only articles printed in the Fidonews Publication. A certain
    amount of straying from this is however expected and encouraged.




    ..

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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Björn Felten on Saturday, February 16, 2019 10:21:00
    Bjrn Felten wrote to Joacim Melin <=-

    To chime in with a earlier post in this echo: let's move this to the politics echo.

    This is not about politics, it's about community information.

    Well actually it's nearly all about politics, USA-bashing, and
    Trump bashing. NOT "community information". Gimme a break.

    How many people -- even in the USA -- do you think know that
    people in a US territory drives on the left side. How many do you
    think even know where the Virgin Islands is located and how
    things are there...?

    How many people.... do you think *CARE*? That's right....

    This has very little, if anything, to do with Fidonews.

    The actual term would be *NOTHING*.

    As long as nobody writes any articles to discuss, then there
    would be very quiet in this echo, no?

    Yes, it would. You seem to think that is a problem, or wrong.



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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Björn Felten on Saturday, February 16, 2019 10:23:00
    Bjrn Felten wrote to Joacim Melin <=-

    AFAIK you allowing all kinds of political debate here may be in
    violation of the rules of the echo itself?

    You know wrong:

    3. Discuss only articles printed in the Fidonews Publication. A
    certain amount of straying from this is however expected and
    encouraged.

    Come on man. A "certain amount of straying..." does NOT even
    REMOTELY cover what goes on here. Don't be ridiculous.

    Please stop violating the echo rules, and do your job as the
    moderator.



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  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to BJƒRN FELTEN on Saturday, February 16, 2019 13:02:00
    I found this in the Geneva Convention:

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Geneva_Convention_on_Road_Traffic

    Article 9

    1. All vehicular traffic proceeding in the same direction on any road
    shall
    keep to the same side of the road, which shall be uniform in each
    country for
    all roads.

    Well, the citizens of the U.S Virgin Island are US citizens. Yet
    they drive
    on the left side!

    Isn't that a violation of the above Article 9?

    Probably not.

    A zillion years ago when I was stationed on Okinawa - then a US
    possession left over from WW II - everybody drove on the right side of
    the road. In 1973 the US turned the island back over to Japan (which had conquered the formerly independent Ryukuan kingdom in the mid 1800s) and overnight everybody had to drive on the left side of the road; caused a
    bit of a problem, because bus's doors were then on the traffic side of
    the bus rather than the curb side
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  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to WARD DOSSCHE on Saturday, February 16, 2019 13:02:32
    Well, the citizens of the U.S Virgin Island are US citizens. Yet they drive on the left side!

    Isn't that a violation of the above Article 9?

    Can they vote in prez elections ?

    If they're US citizens they can
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
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  • From Joacim Melin@2:201/120 to Bj÷rn Felten on Saturday, February 16, 2019 19:38:09
    A certain amount seems to be a helluva lot...


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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Joacim Melin on Saturday, February 16, 2019 21:18:24
    A certain amount seems to be a helluva lot...

    It usually is when compared to zero.




    ..

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  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Björn Felten on Saturday, February 16, 2019 13:01:28
    On 2019 Feb 16 13:19:32, you wrote to Joacim Melin:

    This has very little, if anything, to do with Fidonews.

    As long as nobody writes any articles to discuss, then there would be
    very quiet in this echo, no?

    that would be better than wading through all the political shite posted in here... there are (or were) at least 4 or 5 political oriented echos that are available for that type of drivel... you've let it go on for waaaaayyyy too long and it has not been ""fun"" for at least a decade+...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... I WAS PUT ON THIS EARTH TO MAKE YOUR LIFE MISERABLE.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to mark lewis on Sunday, February 17, 2019 00:50:21
    there are (or were) at least 4 or 5 political oriented echos that are available for that type of drivel...

    And yet, so many prefer this echo. How do you explain that? Surely nobody is
    forced to participate here?




    ..

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Sunday, February 17, 2019 00:59:15
    Hello Bjrn,

    Can they vote in prez elections ?

    No, but they can vote in the presidential primary elections for delegates
    to
    the respective national conventions. It's a mess...

    Clarification is needed here.

    Only US citizens can vote for members of Congress and President.

    Residents of the US Virgin Islands are US citizens.

    Only residents of a US state (or Washington DC) can vote
    for members of Congress and President of the United States.

    Residents of a US state who are living in the US Virgin
    Islands can vote for members of Congress and President
    of the United States.

    Residents of the US Virgin Islands who are not residents
    of a US state can elect delegates who nominate their party's
    candidate for president/vice president.

    If that is not confusing enough, I can make it more so.

    --Lee

    --
    Your Hole Is Our Goal

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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to mark lewis on Saturday, February 16, 2019 23:58:09
    that would be better than wading through all the political shite posted
    in here... there are (or were) at least 4 or 5 political oriented echos that are available for that type of drivel... you've let it go on for waaaaayyyy too long and it has not been ""fun"" for at least a decade+...

    You know what? If I want to post political shite in an echo, I prefer it to be in one moderated by Bjorn Felten....

    Why?

    Have you ever seen him flex his muscle re: moderation? Some people need that though and then become moderator of 40-50 echoes ... not Bjorn.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
    * Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Björn Felten on Sunday, February 17, 2019 11:02:45
    On 17 Feb 2019, Bjrn Felten said the following...

    there are (or were) at least 4 or 5 political oriented echos that are available for that type of drivel...

    And yet, so many prefer this echo. How do you explain that? Surely nobody is forced to participate here?

    It is not a matter of being preferred, it's a matter of what is posted that
    has a emotional reaction to it that keeps it going, at least until there is counter thoughts that offer push back to the original thought.

    These types of messages are usually surrounding politics, but more to the
    point they are often about twisted ideas and values of the radical left.

    Look at the above subject...
    So you see it's not a matter of the echo being preferred.
    You are inviting a political debate, then when these folks get corrected
    common sense, then they cry about this is not the correct echo for such conversations.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A41 2018/12/27 (Windows/64)
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  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Ward Dossche on Sunday, February 17, 2019 11:19:33
    On 16 Feb 2019, Ward Dossche said the following...

    that would be better than wading through all the political shite poste in here... there are (or were) at least 4 or 5 political oriented echo that are available for that type of drivel... you've let it go on for waaaaayyyy too long and it has not been ""fun"" for at least a decade+

    You know what? If I want to post political shite in an echo, I prefer it to be in one moderated by Bjorn Felten....

    Why?

    Because there are some that appreciate the double standard.

    If you are a socialist or communist or on the left, you are agreed with and patted on the back for your brilliance.

    If you are on the right, your a bigot, a Nazi and are not generally not accepted; with a "us vs you" mentality. Then we on the Right hear how
    educated they are on the left and even state that fidonet does not forget,
    all meant to intimidate a person on the right or on the Conservative side of life.

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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Gregory Deyss on Sunday, February 17, 2019 17:42:12
    Greg,

    all meant to intimidate a person on the right or on the Conservative side of life.

    I think it is going to be very difficult to intimidate you.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
    * Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Sunday, February 17, 2019 18:38:55
    Hello Bjrn,

    Can they vote in prez elections ?

    Yes. But only if they become a resident of a US state.

    OTOH, women could not vote either, just a century ago. But they still had
    to
    drive on the right side of the road. :)

    Native Americans did not have the right to vote in all states
    until 1962. Native Americans living on reservations did not have
    the right to vote until the Clinton administration. Many Native
    Americans in North Dakota lost their right to vote in 2018.

    Ex-convicts cannot vote in most states. Even those who are
    no longer on probation or parole. Many ex-convicts will never
    regain their right to vote, even though they pay taxes and
    have jobs and raise families, etc.

    Some states require individuals to have a photo ID - such as
    a driver's license - in order to have the right to vote. Since
    voting is a right, that would be unconstitutional. But try
    explaining that to a poll worker who is denying a US disabled
    veteran with memory problems that he cannot vote because his
    VA card does not have a photo of him on it.

    Voter suppression is all the rage among Republicans in this
    country. Seems to be the only way they have a chance of winning
    is to deny everybody who may not think like them the right to vote.

    --Lee

    --
    Your Hole Is Our Goal

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Sunday, February 17, 2019 18:39:00
    Hello Dan,

    Keep your USA-bashing to yourself, and stay on-topic for this
    echo, if you don't mind.

    Keep your paranoia to yourself. As the moderator *I* decide
    what's allowed here, not you. If you don't like it, vote with
    your feet.

    Paranoia? Where'd you get that? Nothing "paranoid" about my statement/request. That's about all you post here, is negative
    stuff about the US. Can you say "obsession"?

    Yeah, I know you're the moderator. You're not doing your job.

    Job? What job is that?

    Oh, yeah. He's the editor of the Fidonews.
    You want to give him something to do.
    Best way to do that is contribute an article.
    Or recipe. Or puzzle. Or whatever else
    floats your boat.

    As per this echo, the participants make it what it is.
    Not really up to the moderator to decide what anybody should,
    or should not, post. After all, the participants themselves
    are responsible for their own actions. Whatever that might
    be.

    --Lee

    --
    Nobody Beats Our Meat

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Sunday, February 17, 2019 18:39:05
    Hello Bjrn,

    To chime in with a earlier post in this echo: let's move this to the
    politics echo.

    This is not about politics, it's about community information.

    As editor, that makes you a disseminator of public information.

    How many people -- even in the USA -- do you think know that people in a
    US
    territory drives on the left side. How many do you think even know where the Virgin Islands is located and how things are there...?

    There is Samoa, and there is American Samoa. Unlike Puerto Ricans,
    who are US citizens, American Samoans are US nationals. But Samoans
    are British, who drive on the left side of the road ...

    This has very little, if anything, to do with Fidonews.

    As long as nobody writes any articles to discuss, then there would be very quiet in this echo, no?

    Why do Americans drive on the right side of the road?
    Early history shows that Americans used to drive on the
    left side of the road rather than the right. It makes
    sense, since the US used to be a British colony.

    So why the change?

    It took me a while, but I finally figured it out.

    Gunfights. It all started with gunfights.

    You do realize Americans love their guns. It used to be
    that guns were very expensive, and only the wealthy could
    afford them. Those who fought in the Revolutionary War
    used muskets and the like, a rich man's war so-to-speak.
    The poor folks who helped them fight had to use sticks
    and clubs and whatever else they could find.

    After the Revolutionary War, much remained the same,
    with rich folks having most of the guns. But with no
    more war going on, men had to find other ways to play.
    Hence the duel. Rather than using swords, Americans
    much preferred using guns. But muskets to too bulky.
    And also expensive. Much better to use pistols.

    This method was made popular by Aaron Burr and
    Alexander Hamilton. Aaron Burr was Vice President
    under President Thomas Jefferson. Alexander Hamilton
    was US Treasurer, and has his portrait on US currency.

    One day, Hamilton was having a drink at a local bar
    and insulted Burr. Now do keep in mind that Hamilton
    was a nerd, and very drunk, while Burr was a war hero.
    As well as a sharpshooter. One thing led to another,
    and Hamilton challenged Burr to a duel.

    Each contestant then stepped outside, were given a
    single-shot pistol, and walked ten paces away from
    each other before turning around.

    Burr, always the gentleman, allowed Hamilton to
    take the first shot. Hamilton missed, being way
    off the mark, hitting nothing but air. Burr then
    took aim and fired his pistol, shooting Hamilton's
    balls off.

    Now what has this got to do with driving on the
    right side of the road? Well, you see, Burr was
    left-handed and Hamilton was right-handed.

    I am being serious about this.

    Prior to the Burr-Hamilton duel, Americans drove
    their buggies on the left side of the road. After
    the Burr-Hamilton duel, Americans drove their
    buggies on the right side of the road.

    The reason for this is most Americans viewed
    Burr as being guilty of murder, as Hamilton was
    US Treasurer. Even though Burr was acquitted
    on all counts by a jury of his peers.

    This failure to carry out American justice is
    what caused Americans to drive on the right side
    of the road. It was the only way everyday folks
    could show their displeasure of Burr getting
    away with murder.

    Some guys can't win for losing. Even being
    a war hero defending himself from a drunken madman
    isn't enough.

    --Lee

    --
    Your Hole Is Our Goal

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Joacim Melin on Sunday, February 17, 2019 18:39:11
    Hello Joacim,

    To chime in with a earlier post in this echo: let's move this to the politics echo. This has very little, if anything, to do with Fidonews.

    But, to each his own and I guess it's up to the moderator to decide what's right here.

    There are no moderators in Fidonet.

    There is no screening, or pre-screening, of posts made
    by participants. As such, we are all responsible for the
    posts we make.

    Bjrn does not control what others write, or want to write.
    Nobody else does, either. We are responsible for our own actions.
    Free to do as we want, right or wrong.

    If a "moderator" issued an edict to all to twit a participant,
    all are free to ignore the edict and do as they want.

    Participants rule an echo. Not any "moderator" or individual.

    In technical echoes, or administrative echoes, there is an
    obvious need for guidelines. But general chat echoes? That
    is where participants rule.

    --Lee

    --
    Your Hole Is Our Goal

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Joacim Melin on Sunday, February 17, 2019 18:39:16
    Hello Joacim,

    Keep your USA-bashing to yourself, and stay on-topic for this
    echo, if you don't mind.

    Keep your paranoia to yourself. As the moderator *I* decide what's
    allowed here, not you. If you don't like it, vote with your feet.




    ..

    Even though my and Dan's political views most likely does not align I have to say I agree - AFAIK you allowing all kinds of political debate here may be in violation of the rules of the echo itself? There is a politics echo - let's use it and focus this echo on Fidonews.

    The editor is *always* focused on the Fidonews.

    --Lee

    --
    Change Is Cumming

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Sunday, February 17, 2019 18:39:33
    Hello Dan,

    To chime in with a earlier post in this echo: let's move this to the
    politics echo.

    This is not about politics, it's about community information.

    Well actually it's nearly all about politics, USA-bashing, and
    Trump bashing. NOT "community information". Gimme a break.

    In 1984, the Rev. Jesse Jackson and Walter Mondale ran for president.
    Both of them were vying for the Democratic Party nomination, and were
    asked what their occupations were.

    Since the US Constitution forbids having a religious test to
    determine who can be elected to office, neither Jackson nor Mondale
    could run as religious figures. Rev. Jackson is a self-ordained
    Baptist minister, and Mondale's father was a Methodist minister.

    When asked by the media what his occupation was, Rev. Jackson
    described himself as being a "disseminator of public information".
    Mondale described himself in much the same way.

    How many people -- even in the USA -- do you think know that
    people in a US territory drives on the left side. How many do you
    think even know where the Virgin Islands is located and how
    things are there...?

    How many people.... do you think *CARE*? That's right....

    Most people do care. Maybe not all, as there are some sociopaths
    out there. But most folks really do care.

    This has very little, if anything, to do with Fidonews.

    The actual term would be *NOTHING*.

    The echo is our pigpen, to do with as we please.

    As long as nobody writes any articles to discuss, then there
    would be very quiet in this echo, no?

    Yes, it would. You seem to think that is a problem, or wrong.

    There is plenty of dead wood in Fidonet. Sysops should clean
    up their systems by eliminating them from their list. Much
    better to promote active echoes than continue carrying those
    having no content (automated rules posts do not count).

    --Lee

    --
    We Put Big Loads In Tight Places

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Sunday, February 17, 2019 18:39:38
    Hello Dan,

    AFAIK you allowing all kinds of political debate here may be in
    violation of the rules of the echo itself?

    You know wrong:

    3. Discuss only articles printed in the Fidonews Publication. A
    certain amount of straying from this is however expected and
    encouraged.

    Come on man. A "certain amount of straying..." does NOT even
    REMOTELY cover what goes on here. Don't be ridiculous.

    Please stop violating the echo rules, and do your job as the
    moderator.

    He writes the rules.
    He interprets the rules.
    He enforces the rules.

    Claiming he is violating his own rules, which he wrote, interprets,
    and enforces, is kind of silly don't you think?

    Anyway, not to worry.

    Benevolent Ruler has said many times - "I aim to please."

    So. There you go. Contribute to the Fidonews by writing
    an article, recipe, puzzle, or whatever else floats your boat.
    And then we will all talk about it in the echo for at least
    until the next time you do it again.

    --Lee

    --
    We Make Your Wet Dreams Come True

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to BOB ACKLEY on Sunday, February 17, 2019 18:39:44
    Hello Bob,

    Well, the citizens of the U.S Virgin Island are US citizens. Yet they
    drive on the left side!

    Isn't that a violation of the above Article 9?

    Can they vote in prez elections ?

    If they're US citizens they can

    Only if they are residents of a US state.

    --Lee

    --
    It Ain't Payday If It Ain't Nuts In Your Mouth

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Sunday, February 17, 2019 18:39:50
    Hello Bjrn,

    A certain amount seems to be a helluva lot...

    It usually is when compared to zero.

    Like being a little pregnant, it keeps growing.
    Until it pops out. Then starts all over again ...

    --Lee

    --
    As Good As It Looks

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Joacim Melin on Sunday, February 17, 2019 18:39:55
    Hello Joacim,

    A certain amount seems to be a helluva lot...

    So is being a little pregnant.

    --Lee

    --
    I Take A Sheet In The Pool

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Sunday, February 17, 2019 18:40:00
    Hello Bjrn,

    there are (or were) at least 4 or 5 political oriented echos that are
    available for that type of drivel...

    And yet, so many prefer this echo. How do you explain that? Surely nobody
    is
    forced to participate here?

    We need folks like mark to give us something to write about.
    The only one stopping him is himself. But he can change that
    quite easily. By contributing articles to the Fidonews. How
    neat is that? In fact, as editor, you could offer him his
    own column. A regular feature, the main star of Fidonet ...

    --Lee

    --
    It Ain't Payday If It Ain't Nuts In Your Mouth

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to mark lewis on Sunday, February 17, 2019 18:40:06
    Hello mark,

    This has very little, if anything, to do with Fidonews.

    As long as nobody writes any articles to discuss, then there would be
    very quiet in this echo, no?

    that would be better than wading through all the political shite posted in here... there are (or were) at least 4 or 5 political oriented echos that are available for that type of drivel... you've let it go on for
    waaaaayyyy
    too long and it has not been ""fun"" for at least a decade+...

    Then please, by all means, do contribute to the Fidonews by
    writing an article. That will give us all something to write
    about.

    I've done it. Ward has done it. Michiel has done it. Even
    Bjrn has done it. On top of that, Janis has done it as a guest
    editorial. How neat is that? Certainly the great little case
    mark can do what many others already have ...

    --Lee

    --
    Get Her Wet Here

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Björn Felten on Sunday, February 17, 2019 12:58:50
    Re: Is the USA violating the Geneva Convention? :)
    By: Bjrn Felten to mark lewis on Sun Feb 17 2019 00:50:21

    there are (or were) at least 4 or 5 political oriented
    echos that are available for that type of drivel...

    And yet, so many prefer this echo.

    what makes you thing they prefer it?

    How do you explain that?

    i don't and am not going to even try...

    Surely nobody is forced to participate here?

    not AFAIK...

    the fact remains, though, that there's a major amount of off-topic political garbage that should be in some other area or in private... not here in one of the "face of fidonet" echos...


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Ward Dossche on Sunday, February 17, 2019 14:44:58
    all meant to intimidate a person on the right or on the Conservative s of life.

    I think it is going to be very difficult to intimidate you.

    True, but the difficulty for me to be intimidated partly comes from being that I am Conservative. Additionally there are also facts which history provides.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A41 2018/12/27 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to mark lewis on Sunday, February 17, 2019 20:47:46
    the fact remains, though, that there's a major amount of off-topic political
    garbage that should be in some other area or in private... not here in
    one of
    the "face of fidonet" echos...

    That's your opinion.

    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

    -- Voltair


    I guess it can, on my behalf, be contributed to the fact that Sweden was the
    first country in the world to constitutionalize Freedom of Speech (1766).


    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Lee Lofaso on Sunday, February 17, 2019 14:16:00
    Lee Lofaso wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Keep your paranoia to yourself. As the moderator *I* decide
    what's allowed here, not you. If you don't like it, vote with
    your feet.

    Paranoia? Where'd you get that? Nothing "paranoid" about my statement/request. That's about all you post here, is negative
    stuff about the US. Can you say "obsession"?

    Yeah, I know you're the moderator. You're not doing your job.

    Job? What job is that?

    The *moderator* job. That wasn't obvious?

    Oh, yeah. He's the editor of the Fidonews.
    You want to give him something to do.
    Best way to do that is contribute an article.
    Or recipe. Or puzzle. Or whatever else
    floats your boat.

    Distraction attempt noted. I'm not talking about him being the
    editor of Fidonews. I'm talking about him NOT DOING the job of
    moderator.

    As per this echo, the participants make it what it is.
    Not really up to the moderator to decide what anybody should,
    or should not, post. After all, the participants themselves
    are responsible for their own actions. Whatever that might
    be.

    It is *EXACTLY* up to the moderator to decide what is posted, or
    to be more clear, to inform others when they post off-topic and/or unacceptable things. What other *POSSIBLE* definition of a
    Fidonet moderator could there be?

    Instead of attempting to distract/divert, why not address the
    actual problem? In case you still don't understand the problem,
    it is that this echo is full of garbage posts that don't belong
    here and have *NOTHING* to do with FidoNews. The fact that the
    "moderator" is one of the worst offenders of the rules makes it
    something which is probably not fixable.



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Sunday, February 17, 2019 22:28:29
    Job? What job is that?

    The *moderator* job. That wasn't obvious?

    You're out of luck there. In your zone there is no such thing as a moderator, and therefore no related job. It's defined in a policy document that
    your zone has not ratified (e.g. Echopol1).

    Maybe if you lobby your new ZC you eventually can join the rest of the Fido world on this matter...



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Björn Felten on Sunday, February 17, 2019 16:59:00
    Bjrn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Job? What job is that?

    The *moderator* job. That wasn't obvious?

    You're out of luck there. In your zone there is no such thing
    as a moderator, and therefore no related job. It's defined in a
    policy document that your zone has not ratified (e.g. Echopol1).

    Irrelevant to whether or not the moderator is doing his job.
    Another weak attempt at diversion/deflection.

    Maybe if you lobby your new ZC you eventually can join the
    rest of the Fido world on this matter...

    Whether Z1 defines/agrees with it does not change the fact that
    you, as the moderator, are not doing the job as defined in policy.
    If you were, I wouldn't be seeing the political crap in the echo,
    regardless of what zone I'm in. Right?

    Answer that simple question, if you don't mind.

    For a moment, ignore Z1. Are you doing the job as defined in
    policy that Z2,3,4 *DID* ratify?

    Again, answer the simple question, please.

    If your answer is "no", then you are *NOT* doing your job.


    ... Post may contain information unsuitable for overly sensitive persons.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Monday, February 18, 2019 00:37:00
    Hello Ward,

    that would be better than wading through all the political shite posted
    in here... there are (or were) at least 4 or 5 political oriented echos
    that are available for that type of drivel... you've let it go on for
    waaaaayyyy too long and it has not been ""fun"" for at least a decade+...

    You know what? If I want to post political shite in an echo, I prefer it
    to
    be in one moderated by Bjorn Felten....

    Why?

    Have you ever seen him flex his muscle re: moderation? Some people need
    that
    though and then become moderator of 40-50 echoes ... not Bjorn.

    Has a winner been declared yet? I here it was a real
    contest between Bobby Quean, Bob Hoffman, and mark lewis.
    Or maybe mark won by default when the other two got tired
    of playing the game?

    --Lee

    --
    Laying Pipe Since '88

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Monday, February 18, 2019 00:37:12
    Hello Bjrn,

    the fact remains, though, that there's a major amount of off-topic
    political
    garbage that should be in some other area or in private... not here in
    one of
    the "face of fidonet" echos...

    That's your opinion.

    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right
    to
    say it."

    -- Voltair

    The French. Sold us out. Twice. To Spain. And then
    the Americans came. And forced us to accept their ways.
    Including having to adopt English as our language, even
    though French was our native tongue.

    I guess it can, on my behalf, be contributed to the fact that Sweden was
    the
    first country in the world to constitutionalize Freedom of Speech (1766).

    There you go.
    It's all your fault.
    You started it.
    Are you ready to apologize?

    To be fair, the US also consitutionized Freedom of Speech (1791).
    But Cajuns were denied having the right to speak their native
    French in schools and other places, even into the 20th century.

    The state of Louisiana has two official languages, French
    and English, thus allowing Cajuns to have the same rights as
    their English-speaking friends.

    And yet there are some yahoos in the US who want to make
    English the official language, forcing all who do not speak
    English to speak a foreign tongue.

    --Lee

    --
    It Ain't Payday If It Ain't Nuts In Your Mouth

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Gregory Deyss on Monday, February 18, 2019 00:37:18
    Hello Greg,

    all meant to intimidate a person on the right or on the
    Conservative s
    of life.

    I think it is going to be very difficult to intimidate you.

    True, but the difficulty for me to be intimidated partly comes from being that I am Conservative. Additionally there are also facts which history provides.

    Facts? What are facts?

    History is always a reinterpretation of what others claim.
    Not necessarily about anything we know, or think we know.

    Those who know nothing about history are doomed to repeat it.
    But even if we know, or think we know, we will still repeat it.

    Labels, such as conservative or liberal, are meaningless.
    For example, politicians in Europe are far to the left of
    politicians in the US (both conservatives and liberals).
    A liberal in England is a die-hard conservative in the US.
    A conservative in England is a die-hard liberal in the US.
    Can't really pin anything on The Orange One, as I doubt
    he even knows what he is himself.

    --Lee

    --
    We Put Big Loads In Tight Places

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Monday, February 18, 2019 01:01:28
    Answer that simple question, if you don't mind.

    I *do* mind! Come back when you have learned how to behave amongst grown-ups.

    In the meantime you can read what Lee wrote about it. He's got it spot on.




    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Björn Felten on Sunday, February 17, 2019 19:47:26
    On 2019 Feb 18 01:01:28, you wrote to Dan Clough:

    Answer that simple question, if you don't mind.

    I *do* mind! Come back when you have learned how to behave amongst grown-ups.

    and you're being a grown-up? you don't know dan's age but you treat him like a child? anyone can tell you that someone in their 50s/60s/70s certainly isn't a child... hell, that goes for anyone over 30, really... 20 is adult by law but they're still learning and have a ways to go... my 30+ yo is just now learning things i learned when i was in my 20s but he also knows a lot of other stuff that i don't...

    In the meantime you can read what Lee wrote about it. He's got it spot
    on.

    he just knows how to please his master ;) :lol:

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Because of the greatness of the Shah, Iran is an island of stability
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Monday, February 18, 2019 03:08:07
    Hello Bjrn,

    Job? What job is that?

    The *moderator* job. That wasn't obvious?

    You're out of luck there. In your zone there is no such thing as a moderator, and therefore no related job. It's defined in a policy document that your zone has not ratified (e.g. Echopol1).

    Maybe if you lobby your new ZC you eventually can join the rest of the
    Fido
    world on this matter...

    # This echo does not recognize any local or regional echomail
    policies such as EP1. This echo originates in Zone 1 and follows
    Zone 1 policies concerning the "echolist".

    # The moderator is the sole person authorized to correct off-topic SD>behavior publically in the echo. You are encouraged to contact the SD>moderator via netmail (preferred) or email privately first.

    The pretender has self-appointed himself as being the elisted
    moderator on a private elist (the "echolist"), thus giving himself
    the authority to act (correct off-topic behavior publically in
    the echo). He furthermore wishes to keep things secret, behind
    closed doors, so that nobody in the echo will know what he does.

    Why should any such insolent behavior be tolerated by anybody?

    If I self-appointed myself as being moderator of this echo, and
    threatened to remove your access, would you not object?
    Would you even recognize me as having any legitimate authority
    to ban you from participating?

    No private elist has any official status in Fidonet.

    Nick Andre has publicly admitted this, in this very echo,
    not too long ago. Would you like him to repeat it?

    I can look up his post, and quote him, saving you the time to ask.

    Or you can just take my word for it.

    That would save both you and me a lot of time.

    Well, not much. If I do a sort by name. :)

    --Lee

    --
    Our Nuts, Your Mouth

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Monday, February 18, 2019 03:08:13
    Hello Dan,

    Keep your paranoia to yourself. As the moderator *I* decide
    what's allowed here, not you. If you don't like it, vote with
    your feet.

    Paranoia? Where'd you get that? Nothing "paranoid" about my
    statement/request. That's about all you post here, is negative
    stuff about the US. Can you say "obsession"?

    Yeah, I know you're the moderator. You're not doing your job.

    Job? What job is that?

    The *moderator* job. That wasn't obvious?

    As defined by?

    You see, the editor of the Fidonews is also the official moderator
    of this echo. As noted in the Rules for this echo, the moderator's
    job is defined by EP1, which the editor/moderator gladly endorses.

    Oh, yeah. He's the editor of the Fidonews.
    You want to give him something to do.
    Best way to do that is contribute an article.
    Or recipe. Or puzzle. Or whatever else
    floats your boat.

    Distraction attempt noted.

    What distraction? Have I not clearly answered your inquiry?

    I'm not talking about him being the editor of Fidonews. I'm talking about him NOT DOING the job of moderator.

    If the editor wishes to hire someone else to serve as moderator
    of this echo he is free to do so. But until then, the editor is
    it, and nobody else.

    The editor/moderator is doing the job of moderator, as defined
    by EP1. He has even noted this in the Rules for this echo.

    As per this echo, the participants make it what it is.
    Not really up to the moderator to decide what anybody should,
    or should not, post. After all, the participants themselves
    are responsible for their own actions. Whatever that might
    be.

    It is *EXACTLY* up to the moderator to decide what is posted, or
    to be more clear, to inform others when they post off-topic and/or unacceptable things. What other *POSSIBLE* definition of a
    Fidonet moderator could there be?

    I do not believe you fully understand basic echomail policy,
    much less the job of a moderator. It is all explained quite
    clearly in EP1, which the editor/moderator fully endorses.

    Instead of attempting to distract/divert, why not address the
    actual problem?

    What is the problem?

    In case you still don't understand the problem, it is that this echo is
    full
    of garbage posts that don't belong here and have *NOTHING* to do with FidoNews.

    How might that be a problem? Not that it is a problem.

    You see, the job of a moderator is to help facilitate discussion.
    Not hinder it. If participants want to talk about the man in
    the moon, or how to row a boat to Mars, so be it. Whether it has
    anything at all to do with FidoNews is irrelevant. A moderator
    has to give the participants what they want. Even if you don't
    like it.

    The fact that the "moderator" is one of the worst offenders of the rules makes it something which is probably not fixable.

    Banning participants is a recipe for disaster. Is that what you want? Certainly not me. And not any editor/moderator worth his salt.

    --Lee

    --
    Get Her Wet Here

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Monday, February 18, 2019 03:08:20
    Hello Dan,

    Job? What job is that?

    The *moderator* job. That wasn't obvious?

    You're out of luck there. In your zone there is no such thing
    as a moderator, and therefore no related job. It's defined in a
    policy document that your zone has not ratified (e.g. Echopol1).

    Irrelevant to whether or not the moderator is doing his job.
    Another weak attempt at diversion/deflection.

    # This echo does not recognize any local or regional echomail
    policies such as EP1. This echo originates in Zone 1 and follows
    Zone 1 policies concerning the "echolist".

    The pretender rejects EP1 and all other Fidonet documents/policies.
    As an excuse for his actions, he writes something about the "echolist."
    Here is a little something for your big brain to figure out -

    No private elist has any official status in Fidonet.

    Now think about what that means.

    That is not only Zone 1 policy, but also Zone 2 policy,
    and Zone 3 policy, and Zone 4 policy.

    IOW, the pretender's claim to fame is based on nothing but
    his own imagination.

    And that makes it all very, very relevant to this discussion.

    Maybe if you lobby your new ZC you eventually can join the
    rest of the Fido world on this matter...

    Whether Z1 defines/agrees with it does not change the fact that
    you, as the moderator, are not doing the job as defined in policy.
    If you were, I wouldn't be seeing the political crap in the echo, regardless of what zone I'm in. Right?

    By rejecting EP1, the pretender is admitting he has no legitimacy
    to act in any capacity as a "moderator". The pretender further
    undermines his legitmacy by publicly admitting he is a liar,
    falsely claiming a private elisting has an official status in
    Zone 1.

    Answer that simple question, if you don't mind.

    I did. Clearly and concisely.

    For a moment, ignore Z1. Are you doing the job as defined in
    policy that Z2,3,4 *DID* ratify?

    Yes, he is. As defined by EP1.

    Again, answer the simple question, please.

    I did. Clearly and concisely.

    If your answer is "no", then you are *NOT* doing your job.

    The pretender has no job, for two reasons. First, the pretender
    rejects EP1. Second, Zone 1 also rejects EP1. Which means, in a
    nutshell, there are no moderators in Zone 1.

    --Lee

    --
    Sleep With Someone New

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Björn Felten on Sunday, February 17, 2019 20:34:00
    Bjrn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Answer that simple question, if you don't mind.

    I *do* mind! Come back when you have learned how to behave
    amongst grown-ups.

    In the meantime you can read what Lee wrote about it. He's got
    it spot on.

    Yeah..., I didn't think you'd answer. Nice how you also snip out
    all the context.

    I pay no attention to what Lee writes. He appears to be just
    another of your lackeys.



    ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Lee Lofaso on Sunday, February 17, 2019 20:43:00
    Lee Lofaso wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Hello Dan,

    Job? What job is that?

    The *moderator* job. That wasn't obvious?

    You're out of luck there. In your zone there is no such thing
    as a moderator, and therefore no related job. It's defined in a
    policy document that your zone has not ratified (e.g. Echopol1).

    Irrelevant to whether or not the moderator is doing his job.
    Another weak attempt at diversion/deflection.

    # This echo does not recognize any local or regional echomail
    policies such as EP1. This echo originates in Zone 1 and follows
    Zone 1 policies concerning the "echolist".

    The pretender rejects EP1 and all other Fidonet
    documents/policies. As an excuse for his actions, he writes
    something about the "echolist." Here is a little something for
    your big brain to figure out -

    No private elist has any official status in Fidonet.

    Now think about what that means.

    That is not only Zone 1 policy, but also Zone 2 policy,
    and Zone 3 policy, and Zone 4 policy.

    IOW, the pretender's claim to fame is based on nothing but
    his own imagination.

    And that makes it all very, very relevant to this discussion.

    Maybe if you lobby your new ZC you eventually can join the
    rest of the Fido world on this matter...

    Whether Z1 defines/agrees with it does not change the fact that
    you, as the moderator, are not doing the job as defined in policy.
    If you were, I wouldn't be seeing the political crap in the echo, regardless of what zone I'm in. Right?

    By rejecting EP1, the pretender is admitting he has no legitimacy
    to act in any capacity as a "moderator". The pretender further
    undermines his legitmacy by publicly admitting he is a liar,
    falsely claiming a private elisting has an official status in
    Zone 1.

    Answer that simple question, if you don't mind.

    I did. Clearly and concisely.

    For a moment, ignore Z1. Are you doing the job as defined in
    policy that Z2,3,4 *DID* ratify?

    Yes, he is. As defined by EP1.

    Again, answer the simple question, please.

    I did. Clearly and concisely.

    If your answer is "no", then you are *NOT* doing your job.

    The pretender has no job, for two reasons. First, the pretender
    rejects EP1. Second, Zone 1 also rejects EP1. Which means, in a nutshell, there are no moderators in Zone 1.

    I'll not respond to you again, as you make less sense than the
    "moderator" and ramble on incessantly about mumbo-jumbo.

    Stop wasting my time (and yours).



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to mark lewis on Monday, February 18, 2019 04:03:54
    you don't know dan's age but you treat him like a child?

    If it's one thing I've learned during my 70 years, it's that age can't always be counted in years. A certain POTUS springs to mind...




    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Björn Felten on Monday, February 18, 2019 13:00:52
    On 2019 Feb 18 04:03:54, you wrote to me:

    you don't know dan's age but you treat him like a child?

    If it's one thing I've learned during my 70 years, it's that age can't always be counted in years. A certain POTUS springs to mind...

    as does a certain FIDONEWS moderator ;)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Have your service call my service; our services will do lunch.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to mark lewis on Monday, February 18, 2019 21:03:25

    If it's one thing I've learned during my 70 years, it's that age
    can't
    always be counted in years. A certain POTUS springs to mind...

    as does a certain FIDONEWS moderator ;)

    People who nominate themselves for a certain position (out of fear that no-one else might be willing), self-accept the self-nomination and then most likely will vote for oneself ... there must be a name for that ...

    Desperate ??

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
    * Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Ward Dossche on Monday, February 18, 2019 15:19:10
    On 2019 Feb 18 21:03:24, you wrote to me:

    If it's one thing I've learned during my 70 years, it's that age
    can't always be counted in years. A certain POTUS springs to mind...

    as does a certain FIDONEWS moderator ;)

    People who nominate themselves for a certain position (out of fear that no-one else might be willing),

    lovely how you ASSUME to know me and why i do things that i do... fear was not involved and neither was others' willingness...

    self-accept the self-nomination

    i'm not the first and won't be the last...

    and then most likely will vote for oneself ...

    dude, really? you're have future-vision now?

    there must be a name for that ...

    Desperate ??

    in your case, it might fit... not mine, though... i'm not desperate for anything other than the weather to clear so i can get back to work instead of starving in the cold wet...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... If it has tits or tires sooner or later it's going to give you trouble!
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to mark lewis on Monday, February 18, 2019 21:42:02
    Mark,

    in your case, it might fit... not mine, though... i'm not desperate for anything other than the weather to clear so i can get back to work
    instead of starving in the cold wet...

    You talk too much.

    A bit like Ozz.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
    * Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Ward Dossche on Monday, February 18, 2019 16:00:24
    On 2019 Feb 18 21:42:02, you wrote to me:

    in your case, it might fit... not mine, though... i'm not desperate
    for anything other than the weather to clear so i can get back to
    work instead of starving in the cold wet...

    You talk too much.

    so do you... but the thing is you don't know what is real and what isn't... no one does except those close by with intimate knowledge... everything else is projecting, guessing and total bullshit...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Where we operate at a 90 degree angle to reality
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to All on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 02:23:03
    Hello Everybody,

    -=Dan Clough wrote to Bjrn Felten=-

    Job? What job is that?

    The *moderator* job. That wasn't obvious?

    You're out of luck there. In your zone there is no such thing
    as a moderator, and therefore no related job. It's defined in a
    policy document that your zone has not ratified (e.g. Echopol1).

    Irrelevant to whether or not the moderator is doing his job.
    Another weak attempt at diversion/deflection.

    Bjrn Felten supported and substantiated his statement
    by citing EP1, a FidoNet policy document that was passed
    and ratified by Zone 2. He also claimed that Zone 1 has
    never passed and ratified a policy document that does
    the same as EP1.

    Unless Dan can show evidence that Bjrn is mistaken, Bjrn's
    statement is very relevant to the discussion.

    Maybe if you lobby your new ZC you eventually can join the
    rest of the Fido world on this matter...

    Whether Z1 defines/agrees with it does not change the fact that
    you, as the moderator, are not doing the job as defined in policy.
    If you were, I wouldn't be seeing the political crap in the echo,
    regardless of what zone I'm in. Right?

    Bjrn Felten claims Z1 does not have such a policy.
    It is up to Dan Clough to prove him wrong. If he can.

    Answer that simple question, if you don't mind.

    Bjrn answered the question by citing EP1.

    For a moment, ignore Z1. Are you doing the job as defined in
    policy that Z2,3,4 *DID* ratify?

    Again, answer the simple question, please.

    Bjrn answered the question by citing EP1.

    If your answer is "no", then you are *NOT* doing your job.

    Bjrn answered the question by citing EP1.

    Dan has been unable to show how Bjrn has fallen short
    of what has been stated in EP1. If Dan has a case, it is
    up to him to demonstrate by citing evidence. Failure to
    support and substantiate that case means he has nothing.
    Absolutely nothing. Which means he does not have a case.

    But hey. I am not here to argue with anybody.
    Nor am I here to take sides.

    Here is a conversation I overheard the other day,
    between a horse's ass and a little girlie in a restroom stall -

    ... So as a preconceptual scientist, you reach a conclusion
    to a theory *first*, then just ignore all evidence that proves
    you're wrong?

    Yep.

    So you believe you're always right?

    Well, since we don't hear anything to prove us wrong, logic
    dictates we must be right!

    Yeah... But... Just because you won't listen doesn't mean ...

    La-la-la-la-la-la ...

    I give up ...

    See how easy it is?

    [from NON SEQUITOR, by Wiley]

    So, which came first - the chicken or the egg?

    --Lee

    --
    Erections, That's Our Game

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 02:23:15
    Hello Dan,

    Job? What job is that?

    The *moderator* job. That wasn't obvious?

    You're out of luck there. In your zone there is no such thing
    as a moderator, and therefore no related job. It's defined in a
    policy document that your zone has not ratified (e.g. Echopol1).

    Irrelevant to whether or not the moderator is doing his job.
    Another weak attempt at diversion/deflection.

    # This echo does not recognize any local or regional echomail
    policies such as EP1. This echo originates in Zone 1 and follows
    Zone 1 policies concerning the "echolist".

    The pretender rejects EP1 and all other Fidonet
    documents/policies. As an excuse for his actions, he writes
    something about the "echolist." Here is a little something for
    your big brain to figure out -

    No private elist has any official status in Fidonet.

    Now think about what that means.

    That is not only Zone 1 policy, but also Zone 2 policy,
    and Zone 3 policy, and Zone 4 policy.

    IOW, the pretender's claim to fame is based on nothing but
    his own imagination.

    And that makes it all very, very relevant to this discussion.

    Maybe if you lobby your new ZC you eventually can join the
    rest of the Fido world on this matter...

    Whether Z1 defines/agrees with it does not change the fact that
    you, as the moderator, are not doing the job as defined in policy.
    If you were, I wouldn't be seeing the political crap in the echo,
    regardless of what zone I'm in. Right?

    By rejecting EP1, the pretender is admitting he has no legitimacy
    to act in any capacity as a "moderator". The pretender further
    undermines his legitmacy by publicly admitting he is a liar,
    falsely claiming a private elisting has an official status in
    Zone 1.

    Answer that simple question, if you don't mind.

    I did. Clearly and concisely.

    For a moment, ignore Z1. Are you doing the job as defined in
    policy that Z2,3,4 *DID* ratify?

    Yes, he is. As defined by EP1.

    Again, answer the simple question, please.

    I did. Clearly and concisely.

    If your answer is "no", then you are *NOT* doing your job.

    The pretender has no job, for two reasons. First, the pretender
    rejects EP1. Second, Zone 1 also rejects EP1. Which means, in a
    nutshell, there are no moderators in Zone 1.

    I'll not respond to you again, as you make less sense than the
    "moderator" and ramble on incessantly about mumbo-jumbo.

    Stop wasting my time (and yours).

    Twit me.

    Certainly a man of your talents can do that.

    --Lee

    --
    Pork. The One You Love.

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 02:23:48
    Hello Bjrn,

    you don't know dan's age but you treat him like a child?

    If it's one thing I've learned during my 70 years, it's that age can't always be counted in years. A certain POTUS springs to mind...

    Maybe we should start counting people in dog years.
    I mean, this is Fidonet ...

    --Lee

    --
    Get Her Wet Here

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Bjrn Felten@2:203/2 to Lee Lofaso on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 03:12:37
    If it's one thing I've learned during my 70 years, it's that age can't
    always be counted in years. A certain POTUS springs to mind...

    Maybe we should start counting people in dog years.
    I mean, this is Fidonet ...

    Just as long as zero is the time you entered our network, I can go for that.





    ..

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    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to mark lewis on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 03:20:42
    If it's one thing I've learned during my 70 years, it's that age can't
    always be counted in years. A certain POTUS springs to mind...

    as does a certain FIDONEWS moderator ;)

    Thank you kindly!



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 03:26:11
    I pay no attention to what Lee writes. He appears to be just
    another of your lackeys.

    If your definition of lackey means that he has understood what you obviously
    have missed during the soon to be 20 years of editor/moderator of my time, yeah, he sure appears to be far more attentious than at least you.


    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to All on Friday, July 26, 2019 03:12:59
    Hello Everybody,

    Lee is posting in an echo, and from a BBS, legally covered by
    Swedish law. In Sweden we still allow a lot of leniency regarding BF>>freedom of speech.

    But hi is off topic.

    We have nothing, yet, in Swedish law that limits the freedom of
    speech based on being on topic or not. I usually tell him when he's
    too far off limit, and he always respects my request. Good enough
    for me.

    Freedom of speech is a binary freedom, like every other freedom.
    Either you have it or you don't. As soon as you apply even a minor BF>restriction, that binary goes into NOT -- hey presto, you no longer
    have it at all.

    The same goes for every freedom you can think of. Either you
    have it or you don't. There is no middle way here, you only are BF>manipulated to think so...

    Reporters Without Borders, Rankings 2018, USA at 45

    Reporters Without Borders, Rankings 2019, USA at 48

    Reporters Without Borders, Rankings last ten years, Scandinavian
    countries Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark ranked in Top 5.

    --Lee

    --
    Change Is Cumming

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)