• Mikolaj Kopernik a priest???

    From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Bj÷rn Felten on Wednesday, May 01, 2019 11:32:40
    Hello Bjrn!

    01 May 19 03:07, Bjrn Felten wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

    Indeed? I was of the impression that Aristarchos' ideas hardly found
    any supporters through the centuries

    How would we know?

    We know many things that happened throughout the centuries. The term "dark age"
    is pretty much obsolete. On the other side, claiming "lost information" to proof your case sounds rather unscientific. You can always claim "lost proof" for anything.

    Referring back to your subject, Kopernikus was indeed capitular of the Prince-Bishopric of Warmia in Prussia, and held a doctorate in canon law. So "priest" may not be the exact term here, but he certainly was a "man of the chruch" (and many of his close relatives were, too). During his lifetime, his work wasn't considered "heretic" but rather a phantasm without any scientific proof.

    The Christians had more than a thousand years
    to hunt down every script they could find, that contradicted their interpretation of their holy book (which trumped all scientific discoveries) and destroy them. Not many managed to survive. So we
    don't really know anything but small fragments that survived this witch-hunt.

    My, are we a bit biased today? May I remind you that there are many reasons why
    historic sources get lost (like war times, migration periods, and other times of socio-cultural changes), not necessarily linked directly to Christianity? Still, we have lots of surviving sources. If Aristarchos' ideas were wide-spread at any time in-between, we would certainly know.
    Again: Just claiming "lost sources" to proof your point is as unscientific as anything.

    Plus of course, scientist in Asia were much earlier, as I've
    already reported. Their religions allowed scientific freedom, so
    their discoveries can often be read still today. Unbiased...

    I'm still waiting for a reference to learn more about the Indian astronomer you
    mentioned.


    Regards,
    Gerrit

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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Gerrit Kuehn on Wednesday, May 01, 2019 16:00:21
    I'm still waiting for a reference to learn more about the Indian astronomer you mentioned.

    Then you'll have to follow me back to my university years 50 years ago. All knowledge doesn't have to come from the world wide web.



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  • From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Bj÷rn Felten on Wednesday, May 01, 2019 19:22:16
    Hello Bjrn!

    01 May 19 16:00, Bjrn Felten wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

    I'm still waiting for a reference to learn more about the Indian
    astronomer you mentioned.

    Then you'll have to follow me back to my university years 50 years ago. All knowledge doesn't have to come from the world wide web.

    No verifiable reference, no science, no argument.

    I recommend reading "The Dragon in my Garage" by Carl Sagan.


    Regards,
    Gerrit

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  • From nathanael culver@3:712/886 to Björn Felten on Wednesday, May 01, 2019 11:34:53
    That's an insult of the first scientist to suggest that the Earth is

    I doubt Copernicus would have felt much insulted. His sister was a
    Benedictine prioress and he himself was a candidate for the episcopate of Warmia, which required ordination.

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  • From nathanael culver@3:712/886 to Björn Felten on Wednesday, May 01, 2019 11:37:29
    Before someone corrects me, that was meant to read 'the first
    scientist in Christian time'.

    He was not even that. Nicole Oresme proposed a heliocentric model back in the 14th century. Oresme was a bishop, just by the way.

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 21:26:22
    Hello Bjrn,

    That's an insult of the first scientist to suggest that the Earth is
    not
    the centre of the universe

    Before someone corrects me, that was meant to read 'the first
    scientist
    in Christian time'.

    Prior to that, almost every scientist knew this already...

    You will soon be corrected about your error.

    Very soon.

    --SuperTroll Lee

    --
    Sleep With Someone New

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  • From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Bj÷rn Felten on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 20:44:44
    Hello Bjrn!

    30 Apr 19 03:14, Bjrn Felten wrote to nathanael culver:


    That's an insult of the first scientist to suggest that the Earth
    is not the centre of the universe, but rather it revolves around the
    Sun.

    Oh, well, I always thought that was Aristarchus of Samos (who lived like 1800 years before Kopernikus).


    Regards,
    Gerrit

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  • From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Bj÷rn Felten on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 20:48:00
    Hello Bjrn!

    30 Apr 19 03:26, Bjrn Felten wrote to Bjrn Felten:


    Before someone corrects me, that was meant to read 'the first scientist in Christian time'.

    Sorry, too late. I was reading through old mail, answering straight away...

    Prior to that, almost every scientist knew this already...

    Indeed? I was of the impression that Aristarchos' ideas hardly found any supporters through the centuries (until Kopernikus came along).


    Regards,
    Gerrit

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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Gerrit Kuehn on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 22:44:17
    Hello Gerrit,

    On Tuesday April 30 2019 20:44, you wrote to Bjrn Felten:

    That's an insult of the first scientist to suggest that the
    Earth is not the centre of the universe, but rather it revolves
    around the Sun.

    Oh, well, I always thought that was Aristarchus of Samos (who lived
    like 1800 years before Kopernikus).

    That too is my understanding. At least he was the first who left records to that effect.


    Cheers, Michiel

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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Gerrit Kuehn on Wednesday, May 01, 2019 03:07:18
    Indeed? I was of the impression that Aristarchos' ideas hardly found any supporters through the centuries

    How would we know? The Christians had more than a thousand years to hunt down every script they could find, that contradicted their interpretation of their holy book (which trumped all scientific discoveries) and destroy them. Not many managed to survive. So we don't really know anything but small fragments that survived this witch-hunt.

    Plus of course, scientist in Asia were much earlier, as I've already reported. Their religions allowed scientific freedom, so their discoveries can often be read still today. Unbiased...




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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to nathanael culver on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 03:14:34
    Copernicus - priest

    (Sorry but I can't let this go uncommented.)

    That's an insult of the first scientist to suggest that the Earth is not the
    centre of the universe, but rather it revolves around the Sun.

    A discovery that he had to keep secret for almost half a century to keep him
    from the stake, because the Church *knew* that Earth, God's creation, *must* be the centre of the universe.

    If Nicolaus Copernicus heard someone calling him a priest half a millennium later, he most certainly would revolve in his grave.

    He was an astronomer, mathematician, lawyer, economist, military strategist,
    interpreter, ambassador and a doctor. Anything but a bloody priest!



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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 03:26:48
    That's an insult of the first scientist to suggest that the Earth is not the centre of the universe

    Before someone corrects me, that was meant to read 'the first scientist in Christian time'.

    Prior to that, almost every scientist knew this already...



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