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@CHRS: CP850 2
Ward Dossche’s Corolary on Godwin’s Law
@CHRS: CP850 2
Ward Dosscheãs Corolary on Godwinãs Law
Something seems wrong here...
Something seems wrong here...
No, 7 bit pure ASCII only, would be less complex.
No, 7 bit pure ASCII only, would be less complex.
The second program is the NEWSPREP program that posts the Fidonews in
this and another related echo. I don't have to patch it, because I
have the source code. And I did make a change in it a decade or so
ago, to go for "CHRS 850 2". It was on your request, so that your copyright symbol would show properly...
Something seems wrong here...
Well, if in doubt, there's always the actual Fidonews issue (FNEWTA21.ZIP) to rely on.
No, 7 bit pure ASCII only, would be less complex.
You can please some of the people all of the time.
You can please all of the people some of the time.
But you can't please all the people all of the time.
-- Originally by poet John Lydgate,
made famous by Abraham Lincoln.
apparently the character translation table is broken with regard to apostrophies...
Others still have that stance, beit, that they converted to all Lowercase.
Yeah, right. That would surely increase the number of
contributions.
Oh, BTW, your analysis is totally wrong.
There are two programs involved here.
The first is MAKENEWS.EXE that I indeed patched even before I became editor -- in October 2001 to be exact.
This is the program that produces the actual Fidonews. For obvious
reasons there are no kludges involved here, and neither are there any
in the pure text files of the submitted articles.
The second program is the NEWSPREP program that posts the Fidonews
in this and another related echo. I don't have to patch it, because I
have the source code.
And I did make a change in it a decade or so ago, to go for "CHRS 850
2".
It was on your request, so that your copyright symbol would show properly...
I have the impression, that the majority that prefers Cyrrillic for
their conversation, mainly use other encodings than UTF-8
Those who are able to read UTF-8 encoded messages are free to do so in echo areas that promote that encoding. Publishing UTF-8 encoded
messages in general areas like FIDONEWS, where UTF-8 readers are a minoriity, is even worse than mixing 8-bit encodings in one message.
There have been times, when my stance was, that if my ASR33 does not
support it, it is out of bounds. ;)
Others still have that stance, beit, that they converted to all Lowercase.
Of course not, it's a pure text file FFS! DUH!
Well, if in doubt, there's always the actual Fidonews issue (FNEWTA21.ZIP) to rely on.
Well, if in doubt, there's always the actual Fidonews issue
(FNEWTA21.ZIP) to rely on.
Those who are able to read UTF-8 encoded messages are free to do so in
echo areas that promote that encoding. Publishing UTF-8 encoded
messages in general areas like FIDONEWS, where UTF-8 readers are a
minoriity, is even worse than mixing 8-bit encodings in one message.
It is some time ago, but in my memory all messages in the TELEX system were presented in Uppercase
The use of Morse is not practical in binary fixed word systems.
It was born in a time, where bandwith was a liniting factor. Most
computer encodings were born where memory/storage was a limiting
factor.
Extendible systems have administrative overhead.
MvdV> Baudot code has only one case. Most machines using Baudot code
MvdV> display lower case.
It is some time ago, but in my memory all messages in the TELEX system
were presented in Uppercase
It is some time ago, but in my memory all messages in the TELEX
system were presented in Uppercase
That however was totally dependant on the presentation layer. All telex machines that I have owned and operated did in fact write upper case symbols, but there may very well have been other machines that did not want their machines to shout at their readers. :)
Extendible systems have administrative overhead.
It is some time ago, but in my memory all messages in the TELEX system
were presented in Uppercase
You are confusing TELEGRAM with TELEX.
Telegrams were printed in upper-case. Telex always has been lower-case.
Telegrams were printed in upper-case. Telex always has been lower-case.
You may be right, I have no examples laying around anymore.
It is some time ago, but in my memory all messages in the TELEX
system were presented in Uppercase
You are confusing TELEGRAM with TELEX.
Telegrams were printed in upper-case. Telex always has been
lower-case.
Telegrams were printed in upper-case. Telex always has been
lower-case.
I think you are momentarily confused. I worked in an environment that
used TELEX comms as an art form for 24 years, ...
You think not?
lower-case.Telegrams were printed in upper-case. Telex always has been
You may be right, I have no examples laying around anymore.
I still have rolls upon rolls of old telexes somewhere around here. All in upper case. I have never seen a lower case telex. Maybe it was special to Sweden...?
In various movies (e.g. Good Morning Vietnam) and TV shows depicting the time, telex printouts always seem to be upper case, so maybe it was special to the US as well?
Seriously? Can you see a number of Russian articles,
that only the Russians can read,
in an international publication like the Fidonews? In any
international echo for that matter?
AFAIK, they already have a Russian version -- just like e.g. Sweden
had until our editor passed away.
Get real!
No, dear readers, rest assured that as long as I am the editor, the Fidonews will remain English only. Using CP850.
(I missed this in my previous comment.)
Repeatedly is not true.
But when the zone wars ran at it's peak, I said at some point, that I
was open for articles written in a non-English language just to watch
the reaction.
Alas, I don't remember if any of you who suggested this actually made
such a contribution,
but now that the zone wars are over and done with,
there's no need for such an experiment. Now we are (almost) all one
big family, speaking the same language.
I still prefer e.g. 'humour' over 'humor' though, but that's just me.
8-)
From the few diehards that now remain in R28, nearly all of
them probably speak English, but I would not be surprised if in Germany there is still a significant fraction of paticipants that have not enough English skills to participate in English echos. Same for Latin America.
The ZC4 does not speak English... And then there is Eastern Europe...
jokes ... or when you carefully disect how David Rance expresses
himself.
I have the impression, that the majority that prefers Cyrrillic for
their conversation, mainly use other encodings than UTF-8
Those who are able to read UTF-8 encoded messages are free to do so in
echo areas that promote that encoding. Publishing UTF-8 encoded
messages in general areas like FIDONEWS, where UTF-8 readers are a
minoriity, is even worse than mixing 8-bit encodings in one message.
There have been times, when my stance was, that if my ASR33 does not
support it, it is out of bounds. ;)
Others still have that stance, beit, that they converted to all
Lowercase.
wantIt is some time ago, but in my memory all messages in the TELEX
system were presented in Uppercase
That however was totally dependant on the presentation layer. All telex machines that I have owned and operated did in fact write upper case symbols, but there may very well have been other machines that did not
their machines to shout at their readers. :)
Telegrams were printed in upper-case. Telex always has beenlower-case.
You may be right, I have no examples laying around anymore.
I still have rolls upon rolls of old telexes somewhere around here. All in upper case. I have never seen a lower case telex. Maybe it was special to Sweden...?
In various movies (e.g. Good Morning Vietnam) and TV shows depicting the time, telex printouts always seem to be upper case, so maybe it wasspecial
to the US as well?
It is some time ago, but in my memory all messages in the TELEX system
were presented in Uppercase
You are confusing TELEGRAM with TELEX.
Telegrams were printed in upper-case. Telex always has been lower-case.
You may be right, I have no examples laying around anymore.
It is some time ago, but in my memory all messages in the TELEX
system were presented in Uppercase
You are confusing TELEGRAM with TELEX.
I think you are.
Telegrams were printed in upper-case. Telex always has been
lower-case.
I think you are momentarily confused.
I worked in an environment that used TELEX comms as an art form for 24 years, and they were all in uppercase.
I can produce a .jpg copy of the NASA farewell telex to the Honeysuckle Creek Tracking mob as evidence.
service,Telegrams were printed in upper-case. Telex always has been
lower-case.
I think you are momentarily confused. I worked in an environment that
used TELEX comms as an art form for 24 years, ...
I worked for a few decades in an environment which actually ran the
ran the exchanges, commercialized the teletypes and whatever.
And I can send you jpg-s that I have.
I am not excluding there were other switched non-public networks with teletype devices, but when you use the word "telex" then we are talking about the public switched network run by incumbent national operators following ITU-guidelines.
You think not?
specifyMvdV>> the encoding for submitted articles, From what I gleen the article
wasMvdV>> submitted using CP1252 Aka Centraal-Europees Windows. The articles
areMvdV>> published with a "CHRS 850 2" kludge.
Oh, BTW, your analysis is totally wrong.
There are two programs involved here. The first is MAKENEWS.EXE that I indeed patched even before I became editor -- in October 2001 to be exact.
This is the program that produces the actual Fidonews.
For obvious reasons there are no kludges involved here, and neither are there any in the pure text files of the submitted articles.
The second program is the NEWSPREP program that posts the Fidonews in this and another related echo. I don't have to patch it, because I have the source code.
And I did make a change in it a decade or so ago, to go for "CHRS 850 2".It
was on your request, so that your copyright symbol would show properly...
Yeah, right. That would surely increase the number of contributions.
No, 7 bit pure ASCII only, would be less complex.
You can please some of the people all of the time.
You can please all of the people some of the time.
But you can't please all the people all of the time.
-- Originally by poet John Lydgate,
made famous by Abraham Lincoln.
patchesMvdV>> his software to use a "CHRS UTF-8 4" kludge.
No, 7 bit pure ASCII only, would be less complex.
No, 7 bit pure ASCII only, would be less complex.
(I missed this in my previous comment.)
Repeatedly is not true. But when the zone wars ran at it's peak, I said at some point, that I was open for articles written in a non-English language just to watch the reaction.
Alas, I don't remember if any of you who suggested this actually made sucha
contribution,
but now that the zone wars are over and done with,
there's no need for such an experiment.
Now we are (almost) all one big family, speaking the same language.
I still prefer e.g. 'humour' over 'humor' though, but that's just me. 8-)
Seriously? Can you see a number of Russian articles, that only theRussians
can read, in an international publication like the Fidonews? In any international echo for that matter?
AFAIK, they already have a Russian version -- just like e.g. Sweden had until our editor passed away.
Get real!
No, dear readers, rest assured that as long as I am the editor, theFidonews
will remain English only. Using CP850.
Yeah, right. That would surely increase the number of
contributions.
I have the impression, that the majority that prefers Cyrrillic for
their conversation, mainly use other encodings than UTF-8
Those who are able to read UTF-8 encoded messages are free to do so in
echo areas that promote that encoding. Publishing UTF-8 encoded
messages in general areas like FIDONEWS, where UTF-8 readers are a
minoriity, is even worse than mixing 8-bit encodings in one message.
jokes ... or when you carefully disect how David Rance expresses
himself.
Or when FLAK is mispelled. Or, was he really 'channelling' Roberta?
Mmm.
The Baudot code is still common in the European telex system,
You are confusing TELEGRAM with TELEX.
I think you are.
Although using uppercase in telegram is a matter of style, using
uppercase in telex is a must in the international telex network.
jokes ... or when you carefully disect how David Rance expresses
himself.
Or when FLAK is mispelled. Or, was he really 'channelling' Roberta?
Mmm.
Roberta Flack, the singer, or Roberta Flak ... that SS woman ?
The Baudot code is still common in the European telex system,
timesYou are confusing TELEGRAM with TELEX.
I think you are.
Although using uppercase in telegram is a matter of style, using
uppercase in telex is a must in the international telex network.
I'm starting to think there may have been different ITU-Ts at various
past, or different ITU-Ts for each as-yet-unformed-Fidonet zone. I've looked at some guidelines that uncle Google recommended (about six until I gave up), and all the 'letter case' rules and examples are in uppercase ASCII.
TELEX systemIt is some time ago, but in my memory all messages in the
telexwere presented in Uppercase
That however was totally dependant on the presentation layer. All
machines that I have owned and operated did in fact write upper casesymbols,
but there may very well have been other machines that did not wanttheir
machines to shout at their readers. :)
lower-case.Telegrams were printed in upper-case. Telex always has been
here. All inYou may be right, I have no examples laying around anymore.
I still have rolls upon rolls of old telexes somewhere around
upper case. I have never seen a lower case telex. Maybe it wasspecial to
Sweden...?depicting the
In various movies (e.g. Good Morning Vietnam) and TV shows
time, telex printouts always seem to be upper case, so maybe it wasspecial to
the US as well?
jokes ... or when you carefully disect how David Rance
expresses himself.
Or when FLAK is mispelled. Or, was he really 'channelling'
Roberta? Mmm.
Roberta Flack, the singer, or Roberta Flak ... that SS woman ?
AFAIK, they already have a Russian version -- just like e.g. Sweden had
until our editor passed away.
Limiting FidoNet to English only is a problem that needs
correcting. Same as limiting FidoNet to Swedish only would be.
Or any other language. So why keep doing the same stupid thing?
jokes ... or when you carefully disect how David Rance
expresses himself.
Or when FLAK is mispelled. Or, was he really 'channelling'
Roberta? Mmm.
Roberta Flack, the singer, or Roberta Flak ... that SS woman ?
Frankly, my dear fellow, I don't give a damn for either.
had until our editor passed away.AFAIK, they already have a Russian version -- just like e.g. BF>Sweden
Limiting FidoNet to English only is a problem that needs
correcting. Same as limiting FidoNet to Swedish only would be.
Or any other language. So why keep doing the same stupid thing?
If you were the editor of the Snooze, how would you edit an article I submitted written in Maori (supposing that I could include all of the character accents)?
Are you fluent enough in that written language to edit it?
Would you do any better if it was written in Ukrainian?
But you are right, it was a handful of apostrophises that caused all
this brouhaha.
Ah well, CP 850 is the primary code page and default OEM code page
in many countries,
So I think I'll stick to CP 850 when posting the Fidonews in the echoes. Any objections, save from the UTF-8 fanatics?
Ah well, CP 850 is the primary code page and default OEM code page
in many countries,
My guess is that Ward used a "smart" Windows editor that translated the apostrophe character into the closing single quote character. (0X92)
Most likely this was unintentional and he was unaware of it.
Can you verify that? All I've ever said is that I appreciate the
effort it takes to get my name correctly spelled in some countries --
and I highly respect those that do.
Ah well, CP 850 is the primary code page and default OEM code
page in many countries,
In case you didn't know it, Fidonet is and has always been a DOS
based network.
All you have to do is look at all the eight bit structures of all our definitions. Ever since we got 16-bit
and then 32 and now 64-bit systems, I've been fighting with stuff like
big vs. little endians and similar, I happen to know.
| Sysop: | Zazz |
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