Hello Everybody,

It has become obvious that Nick Andre has become burned out
as Z1C, and the need for a replacement must be found ASAP.

Here is what P4 says about the Z1C position and what duties
are required -


6.1 General

A Zone Coordinator for FidoNet has the primary task of maintaining the
nodelist for the Zone, sharing it with the other Zone Coordinators, and ensuring the distribution of the master nodelist (or difference file)
to the Regions in the Zone. The Zone Coordinator is also responsible
for coordinating the distribution of Network Policy documents and
FidoNews to the Regional Coordinators in the zone.

The Zone Coordinator is responsible for the maintenance of the nodelist
for the administrative region. The Administrative Region has the same
number as the zone, and consists of nodes assigned for administrative
purposes not related to the sending and receiving of normal network
mail.

A Zone Coordinator is charged with the task of ensuring the smooth
operation of the Zone, which is done by appointing and supervising the
Regional Coordinators.

If a Zone Coordinator determines that a Regional Coordinator is not
properly performing the duties outlined in section 5, a replacement
should be found.

The Zone Coordinator defines the geographic boundaries of the regions
within the zone and sets the time for the Zone Mail Hour.

The Zone Coordinator is responsible for reviewing and approving any
geographic exemptions as described in section 5.6.

The Zone Coordinator is responsible for insuring the smooth operation
of gates between that zone and all other zones for the transfer of
interzonal mail.

The Zone Coordinators are responsible for the selection of the
International Coordinator from among their ranks.

-=end text=-

No private elist/echolist has any official status in Fidonet.

Wouldn't you agree? After all, you are the duly elected Z1C.

If I'm not doing my job as ZC, I would of been nailed to the cross by now.

The job duties of the Z1C are clearly defined in P4.
Really not much to do -

* maintain the nodelist for the Zone

* share the nodelist with other Zone Coordinators

* ensuring the distribution of the master nodelist (for difference
file) to the Regions in the Zone

* coordinating the distribution of Natwork Policy documents and
Fidonews to the Regional Coordinators in the zone

That's it. Nothing about private elists/echolists. Nothing at all
about echomail. Why is that? Because Zone 1 has no policy at all
concerning echomail. Zippo. And that is exactly how the previous
Z1C, and those before her, wanted it!

Must be the current Z1C also likes it that way.

I agree that I run ZC1 operations on a server system and resources out of

my

own pocket, crank out nodelists, play Netmail-man to the best of my

ability

and exchange witty banter with friends here and in other Zones.

Nick Andre asked for the gig, he got it. As such, he has only
himself to blame. Nobody else.

Let that resonate for a moment please... exchanging mail over a silly message network that a tiny fraction of tech-people worldwide still use today, and volunteering to keep it all running.

Zone 1 only ecompasses a small part of the world, with less than
300 sysops participating. And that is too much for you to handle?
If so, let somebody else who is more interested do the job. I am
sure there are number of very capable sysops who would volunteer
for the gig.

People trying to take me to task over e-lists, echolists, whatever they

are,

I could care less. Thats time being taken away from shameful self-gratification.

Nick

Since you could care less about your fellow sysops, step down.
Please. It would be the honorable thing to do.

--Lee

--
As Good As It Looks

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Nick,

No private elist/echolist has any official status in Fidonet.

Wouldn't you agree? After all, you are the duly elected Z1C.

If I'm not doing my job as ZC, I would of been nailed to the cross by now.

I agree that I run ZC1 operations on a server system and resources out of

my

own pocket, crank out nodelists, play Netmail-man to the best of my

ability

and exchange witty banter with friends here and in other Zones.

Let that resonate for a moment please... exchanging mail over a silly message network that a tiny fraction of tech-people worldwide still use today, and volunteering to keep it all running.

People trying to take me to task over e-lists, echolists, whatever they

are,

I could care less. Thats time being taken away from shameful self-gratification.

Nick

Thanks for admitting Zone 1 has no policy in regards to echomail.
Since it is quite obvious that you are burned out from the job,
and no longer have any interest in continuing to do your duties,
you should do the honorable thing and step down. Resign as Z1C
so that somebody else who really wants the gig can step up to
the plate. I hear little case mark lewis would *love* to fill
in for you until a new election is called. So whattaya say?

--Lee

--
Laying Pipe Since '88

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 2019 Feb 19 17:40:04, you wrote to Nick Andre:

I hear little case mark lewis would *love* to fill in for you until a
new election is called.

you're full of shit and i'll thank you to leave my name out of anything you write...

if i had wanted the Z1C job, i would have tossed my name into the hat... instead i actively turned down all inquiries about me possibly running... i don't want that position and never have wanted it, period...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... I have closed my consciousness to all further discussions on that.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 19 Feb 19 17:39:40, Lee Lofaso said the following to All:

If I'm not doing my job as ZC, I would of been nailed to the cross by

The job duties of the Z1C are clearly defined in P4.
Really not much to do -

An interesting amusing open letter, thanks for the laugh, but I'm
interested and fascinated as to why you continue to not have a node number.

There is no more Janis supposedly preventing you from being listed, and no "probationary period" you would need to follow. You sure seem to love to post on Fido a lot, so why not get a listing and be real?

I already voiced my support for you being listed, just as I did for Tim Richardson and others over the years who had misconceptions that "Fido doesn't like them being listed".

Think of the fun you could have, stirring up calls for another ZC1 election and getting access to all the "secret echoes", some of which are so secret,
not even *I* am aware that they exist. At the very least, I hope to
entertain a Policy complaint one day.

What better way to troll yours truly?

FYI I never get "burnt out" from Fido, its always a learning lesson dealing with professional trolls, nodelist police and others who seem to think I'm a diety or messiah with magical wizardly powers.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

I already voiced my support for you being listed, just as I did for Tim Richardson and others over the years who had misconceptions that "Fido doesn't like them being listed".

Kudos to you for that. As you may know, I've exercised my Swedish globally right of Freedom of Speech, to give both Lee and Tim the right to post in almost any echo they like.

No matter how hard I tried Tim never made it, but Lee did (as you can see).

Some of the old Z1 cronies still regard Lee as a paria that should never be allowed Fidonet access. Like you, I disagree. Kudos, our new Z1C, I think we can see a new Fidonet dawning in the near future thanks to you!


..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Bj”rn Felten wrote to Nick Andre <=-

I already voiced my support for you being listed, just as I did for Tim Richardson and others over the years who had misconceptions that "Fido doesn't like them being listed".

Kudos to you for that. As you may know, I've exercised my
Swedish globally right of Freedom of Speech, to give both Lee and
Tim the right to post in almost any echo they like.

No matter how hard I tried Tim never made it, but Lee did (as
you can see).

Some of the old Z1 cronies still regard Lee as a paria that
should never be allowed Fidonet access. Like you, I disagree.
Kudos, our new Z1C, I think we can see a new Fidonet dawning in
the near future thanks to you!

Interesting. I don't know the "history of Lee", but after being
around here only a couple of months, it became clear to me that
he's an argumentative whacko who likes to hear himself jabber.

That (the conclusion I reached without prior knowledge of him)
should tell you something.

No wonder you two are best buddies.


... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

That (the conclusion I reached without prior knowledge of him)
should tell you something.

You reaching a balanced conclusion will be considered a non-event by most participants in this echo.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Hello Bj”rn,

I already voiced my support for you being listed, just as I did for Tim
Richardson and others over the years who had misconceptions that "Fido
doesn't like them being listed".

Kudos to you for that. As you may know, I've exercised my Swedish globally right of Freedom of Speech, to give both Lee and Tim the right to post in almost any echo they like.

So have many other sysops, including many in Zone 1. In fact, I
would say a vast majority. When your board is down for maintenance,
or due to bad weather, or even for no reason at all, I simply log on
to a different board and post away at my pleasure, with no interruption
in service. Sometimes I even post from different boards, including
yours, on the same day.

Many boards in Zone 1 also allow me read/write access to echoes
that not everybody is allowed to read and/or post in. You see,
some sysops truly do believe in freedom of speech. Not a limited
form, but rather an unlimited form.

There are some boards that continue to deny any access to certain
echoes, thus keeping those echoes "secret" for a chosen few. But
the days of "secret" echoes are coming to an end, with more and
more sysops opening access for those echoes to all.

Thanks to those sysops who continue to stand for freedom by
defying the wishes of those who want to control Fidonet by limiting
access to a few. Fidonet is about promoting communication between
individuals and groups, not stifling it.

No matter how hard I tried Tim never made it, but Lee did (as you can

see).

I have not given up on Tim. Nor have I given up on others who might
wish to join Fidonet. I haven't even given up on myself.

Some of the old Z1 cronies still regard Lee as a paria that should never

be

allowed Fidonet access. Like you, I disagree. Kudos, our new Z1C, I think we can see a new Fidonet dawning in the near future thanks to you!

When out of arguments, some folks turn to insults. As an example,
look at our fine president. When others win a debating point, he takes
to twitter and calls them names. To date, I have not earned that honor.
But I hope to do so one day. If only I can find a way to grab his
attention ...

--Lee

--
Get Her Wet Here

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello mark,

I hear little case mark lewis would *love* to fill in for you until a
new election is called.

you're full of shit and i'll thank you to leave my name out of anything

you

write...

It was a rumor. Not one I started. So please. Don't blame me.

if i had wanted the Z1C job, i would have tossed my name into the hat... instead i actively turned down all inquiries about me possibly running...

i

don't want that position and never have wanted it, period...

Nobody said anything about you being elected. Certainly not me.
However, somebody could have volunteered you for the job ...

--Lee

--
Get Her Wet Here

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Nick,

If I'm not doing my job as ZC, I would of been nailed to the cross by

The job duties of the Z1C are clearly defined in P4.
Really not much to do -

An interesting amusing open letter, thanks for the laugh, but I'm interested and fascinated as to why you continue to not have a node

number.

There is no more Janis supposedly preventing you from being listed, and no "probationary period" you would need to follow. You sure seem to love to post
on Fido a lot, so why not get a listing and be real?

I already voiced my support for you being listed, just as I did for Tim Richardson and others over the years who had misconceptions that "Fido doesn't like them being listed".

Think of the fun you could have, stirring up calls for another ZC1

election

and getting access to all the "secret echoes", some of which are so

secret,

not even *I* am aware that they exist. At the very least, I hope to entertain a Policy complaint one day.

What better way to troll yours truly?

FYI I never get "burnt out" from Fido, its always a learning lesson

dealing

with professional trolls, nodelist police and others who seem to think I'm

a

diety or messiah with magical wizardly powers.

Be careful for what you wish for. You might get it.
Sooner, rather than later. And then both of us can start
having some real fun. Even if Tim and Wayne and only god
knows how many others chicken out.

--Lee

--
Your Hole Is Our Goal

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 2019 Feb 21 01:01:44, you wrote to me:

I hear little case mark lewis would *love* to fill in for you until
a new election is called.

you're full of shit and i'll thank you to leave my name out of
anything you write...

It was a rumor. Not one I started. So please. Don't blame me.

i'm not... i'm blaming you for spreading blatant lies...

if i had wanted the Z1C job, i would have tossed my name into the
hat... instead i actively turned down all inquiries about me possibly
running... i don't want that position and never have wanted it,
period...

Nobody said anything about you being elected. Certainly not me.
However, somebody could have volunteered you for the job ...

re-read my statament... i was actively turning down all inquiries and offers of
nomination... if someone had nominated me without asking me first, i would have turned down that nomination, too... possibly quite vociferously...

EOT

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Losers let it happen. Winners make it happen.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Re: New Z1C Needed
By: Lee Lofaso to Nick Andre on Tue Feb 19 2019 05:40 pm

Thanks for admitting Zone 1 has no policy in regards to echomail.

ECHOPOL did not pass here and you know it. What are you blathering about?

xxcarol
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
* Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS (1:275/100)

Carol,

Thanks for admitting Zone 1 has no policy in regards to echomail.

ECHOPOL did not pass here and you know it. What are you blathering
about?

One needs to believe in something if one is to justify the presence and status of moderators.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

ECHOPOL did not pass here and you know it. What are you blathering about?

Probably that without a policy document (e.g. EP1) that defines "moderator" there can be no such ting in the zone that has not ratified such a document? DUH!



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello mark,

I hear little case mark lewis would *love* to fill in for you until
a new election is called.

you're full of shit and i'll thank you to leave my name out of
anything you write...

It was a rumor. Not one I started. So please. Don't blame me.

i'm not... i'm blaming you for spreading blatant lies...

What lies? I read the same posts as you did. Three candidates
were being considered, one of them being yours truly. I was not
privy to the nominating process, and am totally unawares as to
who nominated who, and why.

if i had wanted the Z1C job, i would have tossed my name into the
hat... instead i actively turned down all inquiries about me possibly
running... i don't want that position and never have wanted it,
period...

Nobody said anything about you being elected. Certainly not me.
However, somebody could have volunteered you for the job ...

re-read my statament... i was actively turning down all inquiries and

offers

of nomination... if someone had nominated me without asking me first, i would have turned down that nomination, too... possibly quite vociferously...

Nominations need not be seconded. But can be turned down. At
least that is my understanding of basic parliamentary procedure.
However, since Zone 1 does not have a general policy concerning
election of officers, anything goes.

--Lee

--
As Good As It Looks

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Lee Lofaso <=-

Thanks for admitting Zone 1 has no policy in regards to echomail.

ECHOPOL did not pass here and you know it. What are you
blathering about?

That's what he does. That's *ALL* he does. Blather.

I'm not sure whether he's truly delusional/whacko, or just a
common troll.

Either way, I don't respond to his crap any more.



... Post may contain information unsuitable for overly sensitive persons.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Hi! Dan,

On 21 Feb 19 19:19, you wrote to Carol Shenkenberger:

Thanks for admitting Zone 1 has no policy in regards to echomail.

ECHOPOL did not pass here and you know it. What are you
blathering about?

That's what he does. That's *ALL* he does. Blather.
I'm not sure whether he's truly delusional/whacko, or just a
common troll.

Either way, I don't respond to his crap any more.

Lurking behind curtain #3 is the AI 'bot alternative. There are some who consider that 'he' is an outlet for Uncle Google's "Deep Mind" AI. A tantalising thought, eh? ;)

Cheers,
Paul.

... "My battery is low and it's getting dark", Mars rover Opportunity, 2018
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130515
* Origin: Quinn's Rock - Live from Paul's Xubuntu desktop! (3:640/1384)

On 2019 Feb 22 00:12:24, you wrote to Carol Shenkenberger:

ECHOPOL did not pass here and you know it. What are you blathering
about?

Probably that without a policy document (e.g. EP1) that defines "moderator" there can be no such ting in the zone that has not ratified such a document? DUH!

moderators in fidonet existed LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG before echopol was even a wet spot in someone's groin...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Is a schizophrenic threatened suicide considered a hostage situation?
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 2019 Feb 22 00:59:00, you wrote to me:

I hear little case mark lewis would *love* to fill in for you
until a new election is called.

you're full of shit and i'll thank you to leave my name out of
anything you write...

It was a rumor. Not one I started. So please. Don't blame me.

i'm not... i'm blaming you for spreading blatant lies...

What lies?

the blatant lie above where you state "mark lewis would *love* to fill in for you"...

I read the same posts as you did.

apparently you missed some...

Three candidates were being considered, one of them being yours truly.

you were running? i sure wasn't and actively turned down any requests and/or nominations...

I was not privy to the nominating process, and am totally unawares as
to who nominated who, and why.

then, once again, you have no clue what you are talking about...

if i had wanted the Z1C job, i would have tossed my name into the
hat... instead i actively turned down all inquiries about me
possibly running... i don't want that position and never have
wanted it, period...

Nobody said anything about you being elected. Certainly not me.
However, somebody could have volunteered you for the job ...

re-read my statament... i was actively turning down all inquiries and
offers of nomination... if someone had nominated me without asking me
first, i would have turned down that nomination, too... possibly
quite vociferously...

Nominations need not be seconded.

no one said anything about being seconded... you're trying to throw that in to confuse things, now...

But can be turned down.

of course they can...

At least that is my understanding of basic parliamentary procedure.

fidonet is not a parliment, congress, democracy or any other simulation of the world outside of fidonet...

However, since Zone 1 does not have a general policy concerning
election of officers, anything goes.

you need to work on your reading comprehension...

EOT

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... A vaguely depressed regularly emasculated suburban dad.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

SGID: 1:229/426 47A61EBC
On 19 Feb 19 17:39:40, Lee Lofaso said the following to All:

[...]

An interesting amusing open letter, thanks for the laugh, but I'm interested and fascinated as to why you continue to not have a node
number.

There is no more Janis supposedly preventing you from being listed, and
no "probationary period" you would need to follow. You sure seem to
love to post on Fido a lot, so why not get a listing and be real?

I already voiced my support for you being listed, just as I did for Tim Richardson and others over the years who had misconceptions that "Fido doesn't like them being listed".

Think of the fun you could have, stirring up calls for another ZC1
election and getting access to all the "secret echoes", some of
which are so secret, not even *I* am aware that they exist. At the
very least, I hope to entertain a Policy complaint one day.

What better way to troll yours truly?

FYI I never get "burnt out" from Fido, its always a learning lesson
dealing with professional trolls, nodelist police and others who
seem to think I'm a diety or messiah with magical wizardly powers.

ÚÂÄÄ¿ ÚÂÄÄ¿ ÚÄÂÂÄ¿ ÚÂÄÄ¿ Ú¿ Ú¿
ÃÅÄÂ٠ô ³ ô ÃÅÄ Ã´ ÀÁÙ
ÀÙ À ÀÁÄÄÙ ÀÙ ÀÙ ÀÁÄÄÙ o


Regards,

Roger

--- D'Bridge (SR41)
* Origin: I'll never forget that night over Macho Grande (1:3828/7)

Hello mark,

[..]

But can be turned down.

of course they can...

But only after one has been nominated.

At least that is my understanding of basic parliamentary procedure.

fidonet is not a parliment, congress, democracy or any other simulation of the world outside of fidonet...

Zone 1 has no rules. P4 is not legally binding on anyone
because it does not have the signatures of each party. All
documents, not only legally binding contracts, demand for
an individual's signature. Those who wrote P4 never signed
the document. Also, P4 was never presented to each zone
so as to have a vote. IOW, your signature is required to
seal the deal.

Since nobody signed on to P4, it is null and void.
Not binding on sysops, or individuals. In any zone.

So what do you have in Fidonet? Nothing anybody would call
a form of government. Controlled anarchy, maybe. Chaos would
be the better word.

However, since Zone 1 does not have a general policy concerning
election of officers, anything goes.

you need to work on your reading comprehension...

Chaos rules!

--Lee

--
Erections, That's Our Game

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello mark,

I hear little case mark lewis would *love* to fill in for you
until a new election is called.

you're full of shit and i'll thank you to leave my name out of
anything you write...

It was a rumor. Not one I started. So please. Don't blame me.

i'm not... i'm blaming you for spreading blatant lies...

What lies?

the blatant lie above where you state "mark lewis would *love* to fill in for you"...

I never said elected. Or able to do so. And remember, it was
all rumor, as I did not have access to the echo.

I read the same posts as you did.

apparently you missed some...

Of course I did. Not having access to the echo can do that.

Three candidates were being considered, one of them being yours truly.

you were running?

I have no idea. Somebody might have nominated me without my
knowledege or consent. Not that it bothers me. In fact, I would
be honored if such was the case.

i sure wasn't and actively turned down any requests and/or nominations...

Well, first you have to be nominated in order to turn it down ...

I was not privy to the nominating process, and am totally unawares as
to who nominated who, and why.

then, once again, you have no clue what you are talking about...

Why should I have a clue? I wasn't there!

if i had wanted the Z1C job, i would have tossed my name into the
hat... instead i actively turned down all inquiries about me
possibly running... i don't want that position and never have
wanted it, period...

Nobody said anything about you being elected. Certainly not me.
However, somebody could have volunteered you for the job ...

re-read my statament... i was actively turning down all inquiries and
offers of nomination... if someone had nominated me without asking me
first, i would have turned down that nomination, too... possibly
quite vociferously...

Nominations need not be seconded.

no one said anything about being seconded... you're trying to throw that

in

to confuse things, now...

Apparently you know very little about parliamentary procedure
or how things work.

--Lee

--
It Ain't Payday If It Ain't Nuts In Your Mouth

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 2019 Feb 23 02:33:48, you wrote to me:

What lies?

the blatant lie above where you state "mark lewis would *love* to fill
in for you"...

I never said elected.

i haven't said you did...

Or able to do so. And remember, it was all rumor, as I did not have access to the echo.

hunh... yet the next line in your post, quoted below, says "i read the same messages as you did" so which is it? you read a restricted access echo or you did not...

I read the same posts as you did.

apparently you missed some...

Of course I did. Not having access to the echo can do that.

yet you state "i read the same messages as you did"...

Three candidates were being considered, one of them being yours
truly.

you were running?

I have no idea. Somebody might have nominated me without my
knowledege or consent. Not that it bothers me. In fact, I would
be honored if such was the case.

you most certainly would have had an idea if you were running...

i sure wasn't and actively turned down any requests and/or
nominations...

Well, first you have to be nominated in order to turn it down ...

read that statement again... keywords "requests and/or nominations"...

I was not privy to the nominating process, and am totally unawares
as to who nominated who, and why.

then, once again, you have no clue what you are talking about...

Why should I have a clue? I wasn't there!

then quit sticking your nose into things you don't know anything about...

Nominations need not be seconded.

no one said anything about being seconded... you're trying to throw
that in to confuse things, now...

Apparently you know very little about parliamentary procedure
or how things work.

fidonet is not a parliment and you still don't know what you are talking about...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless, dead.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)