• The 70 character line length limitation

    From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tuesday, February 26, 2019 02:38:58
    MvdV> Blame the Fidonews editor. Articles published in Fidonews are still
    MvdV> limited to a maximum line length of 70 characters. :)

    That is not really true, but I understand why you think so.

    The real fact is, that the program that's compiled the Fidonews from year three(?) -- MAKENEWS.EXE -- originally had several limitations. One of them was
    the line length limit of 70.

    In 2001 the then Fidonews editor Frank Vest an I had many netmail exchanges about the limitations, but then in particular about the ASCII only requirement.
    So I spent several hours in DEBUG, hacking the original EXE file, finding and removing that stupid ASCII only limitation. The result you have been able to enjoy for almost two decades now.

    But I didn't go for any of the printer related code -- line and page length -- because by then it was still quite popular to print out the Snooze on your printer.

    Ergo, the printer related code are still there. If anyone feels like it, feel free to produce a modern MAKENEWS.EXE file, and I'll be happy to not only use it, but just like Frank Vest two decades ago, partly thanks to my hack, pass on the baton to the next Fidonews editor.

    I've now been the editor for much longer than all of the previous Fidonews editors in total, so I think it's about time to contemplate my retirement...




    ..

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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Björn Felten on Friday, March 01, 2019 11:13:41
    Hello Bjrn,

    On Tuesday February 26 2019 02:38, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> Blame the Fidonews editor. Articles published in Fidonews are
    MvdV>> still limited to a maximum line length of 70 characters. :)

    That is not really true, but I understand why you think so.

    It is not? So you previous requests to limit the line length of my articles to 70 bytes are revoked? You do not mind if my next contribution to the Snooze has
    lines > 70 bytes?
    The real fact is, that the program that's compiled the Fidonews
    from year three(?) -- MAKENEWS.EXE -- originally had several
    limitations. One of them was the line length limit of 70.

    Yes...

    In 2001 the then Fidonews editor Frank Vest an I had many netmail exchanges about the limitations, but then in particular about the
    ASCII only requirement. So I spent several hours in DEBUG, hacking the original EXE file, finding and removing that stupid ASCII only
    limitation.

    Yes...

    The result you have been able to enjoy for almost two decades now.

    Not really.

    But I didn't go for any of the printer related code -- line and
    page length -- because by then it was still quite popular to print out
    the Snooze on your printer.

    Ergo, the printer related code are still there.

    I am not questioning the wisdom of your choice. But that does not alter the fact that it was YOUR choice and the 70 character limitation is still in effect.

    So what part of my statement was not really true?

    I've now been the editor for much longer than all of the previous Fidonews editors in total,

    That seems to be a trend in Fidonet. Officials staying in the seat longer than their predecessors. I have been the FTSC chairman for longer than any of my predecessors.

    We will not mention the ZCs... :-(

    so I think it's about time to contemplate my retirement...

    I fully understand you getting tired of it.

    Yes, perhaps it is time to pass the buck. I am not available.


    Cheers, Michiel

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Friday, March 01, 2019 20:21:20
    Hello Michiel,

    MvdV>>> Blame the Fidonews editor. Articles published in Fidonews are
    MvdV>>> still limited to a maximum line length of 70 characters. :)

    That is not really true, but I understand why you think so.

    MvdV> It is not? So you previous requests to limit the line length of my articles
    MvdV> to 70 bytes are revoked? You do not mind if my next contribution to the
    MvdV> Snooze has lines > 70 bytes?

    You do realize how easy it is to fix this problem. Without
    having the editor doing any additional work on our behalf.

    There is a fix. An easy fix. And I know the fix.
    Actually, two fixes. In case one fix does not work.

    I promise to provide the solution(s) to all.

    The real fact is, that the program that's compiled the Fidonews
    from year three(?) -- MAKENEWS.EXE -- originally had several
    limitations. One of them was the line length limit of 70.

    MvdV> Yes...

    And yet you chose to do nothing about it ...

    In 2001 the then Fidonews editor Frank Vest an I had many netmail
    exchanges about the limitations, but then in particular about the
    ASCII only requirement. So I spent several hours in DEBUG, hacking the
    original EXE file, finding and removing that stupid ASCII only
    limitation.

    MvdV> Yes...

    There you go. Two editors, working hand in hand, trying to fix
    a problem. We don't see much of that anymore in Fidonet.

    The result you have been able to enjoy for almost two decades now.

    MvdV> Not really.

    Why didn't you fix it? Certainly a man of your skills has
    the capability. If I could do it, so can anybody. It really
    is that simple. Almost as simple as plugging in a computer,
    or pressing the on/off switch.

    With all the time you spent as FTSC chairman you could have made
    a bit of room to fix a small problem such as the one Bjrn mentioned.
    In fact, I fixed this problem for myself years ago. Had anybody
    asked, I would have given them the solution(s) right away.

    It really is a simple fix. Both fixes. If one doesn't work,
    the other one will. Just two ways of doing the same thing.

    But I didn't go for any of the printer related code -- line and
    page length -- because by then it was still quite popular to print BF>out
    MvdV> the Snooze on your printer.

    Ergo, the printer related code are still there.

    MvdV> I am not questioning the wisdom of your choice. But that does not alter the
    MvdV> fact that it was YOUR choice and the 70 character limitation
    MvdV> is still in effect.

    There is no 70 character limitation once it has been fixed.
    Easily done by anybody, without the help by/from the editor.

    MvdV> So what part of my statement was not really true?

    You left out the part about your own responsibility.
    This is a problem, easily fixed, by anybody and everybody.
    And then, only a problem for those who wish to print out
    the Fidonews, rather than simply read it on-screen.

    Fidonet is a community of sysops, not a bunch of separate and
    independent sysops living in a jungle. Communication is always
    between more than one person. Even a hermit goes to town once
    in a while, if not only to keep what little sanity he/she might
    have left.

    IOW, this is not a "to each his own" type of thing.
    More like a cooperative anarchy, if one can call it that.

    I've now been the editor for much longer than all of the previous
    Fidonews editors in total,

    MvdV> That seems to be a trend in Fidonet. Officials staying in the seat longer
    MvdV> than their predecessors. I have been the FTSC chairman for longer than any
    MvdV> of my predecessors.

    If an editor is doing a good job, and retains the support of the
    community at large, then why should he/she be forced to leave?

    Ditto for an FTSC chairman. A job well-done should be appreciated
    by all. Why ask the best to leave in favor of an unknown?

    It has been a tradition (not always followed) that the editor
    chooses his/her successor. What happens if an editor drops dead,
    without having named a successor? That has happened before.

    There are no rules as to how the Fidonet community should
    choose an editor of the Fidonews in such a situation. Nor is
    there any mention of a term, or how long a term should be.

    You have been FTSC chairman since forever. Who will succeed
    you whenever the time comes that you step away? How will your
    successor be chosen? Will you be doing the honors, choosing
    your own successor? How long will this term of office be?
    Is it a lifetime term, or just for as long as whoever wants it?

    MvdV> We will not mention the ZCs... :-(

    Elected by yes-men of his/her own choosing. With no term limit.

    so I think it's about time to contemplate my retirement...

    MvdV> I fully understand you getting tired of it.

    Like US President Donald Trump, he asked for the gig.

    MvdV> Yes, perhaps it is time to pass the buck.

    US President Donald Trump will never pass the buck.

    MvdV> I am not available.

    Only because the Netherlands is a monarchy and you are last in line.

    --Lee

    --
    Our Nuts, Your Mouth

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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Lee Lofaso on Saturday, March 02, 2019 16:54:15
    Hello Lee,

    On Friday March 01 2019 20:21, you wrote to me:

    The real fact is, that the program that's compiled the Fidonews
    from year three(?) -- MAKENEWS.EXE -- originally had several
    limitations. One of them was the line length limit of 70.

    MvdV>> Yes...

    And yet you chose to do nothing about it ...

    Why should I do something about it? I am not the one perceiving it as a problem.


    Cheers, Michiel

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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Monday, March 04, 2019 00:52:05
    MvdV> It is not? So you previous requests to limit the line length of my
    MvdV> articles to 70 bytes are revoked? You do not mind if my next
    MvdV> contribution to the Snooze has lines > 70 bytes?

    I don't mind at all. You are free to submit articles with any line length you want. Of course, the publishing program will not accept it, but that's your
    choice.

    I've only alerted you of the limitation that's been in the How to Submit an Article, part a), information for decades.



    ..

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Björn Felten on Wednesday, February 27, 2019 07:00:00
    On 02-26-19 02:38, Bjrn Felten wrote to Michiel van der Vlist <=-

    Ergo, the printer related code are still there. If anyone feels like it, feel free to produce a modern MAKENEWS.EXE file, and I'll be happy
    to not only use it, but just like Frank Vest two decades ago, partly thanks to my hack, pass on the baton to the next Fidonews editor.

    Probably time for a ground up rewrite. A newer version could be ported to multiple platforms. DOS is not exactly the best one to use nowadays.

    I've now been the editor for much longer than all of the previous Fidonews editors in total, so I think it's about time to contemplate my retirement...

    A well deserved retirement, by the sounds of it. :)


    ... Chuck Norris doesn't wear a watch, HE decides what time it is.
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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to All on Wednesday, February 27, 2019 03:44:12
    Hello Everybody,

    The FidoNews editor has finally decided to throw in the towel.
    But like Vikings of old, not before the winning contestant has
    grabbed Thor's hammer.

    [..]

    But I didn't go for any of the printer related code -- line and page
    length
    -- because by then it was still quite popular to print out the Snooze on your printer.

    Ergo, the printer related code are still there. If anyone feels like it, feel free to produce a modern MAKENEWS.EXE file, and I'll be happy to not only use it, but just like Frank Vest two decades ago, partly thanks to my hack, pass on the baton to the next Fidonews editor.

    See there? It's a contest. Whoever passes the grade by producing
    a modern MAKENEWS.EXE file gets the gig! Imagine that! Odin must
    have made him do it!

    I've now been the editor for much longer than all of the previous Fidonews editors in total, so I think it's about time to contemplate my retirement...

    "He'll be back!" ~Janis Kracht

    --Lee

    --
    Sleep With Someone New

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Wednesday, February 27, 2019 03:45:23
    Hello Bjrn,

    MvdV>> Blame the Fidonews editor. Articles published in Fidonews are still
    MvdV>> limited to a maximum line length of 70 characters. :)

    That is not really true, but I understand why you think so.

    Say wha'? The editor of da FidoNews is Pinocchio? Please
    tell me dat ain't so! We all know how much Swedes love George
    Washington and never tell a lie!

    The real fact is, that the program that's compiled the Fidonews from year three(?) -- MAKENEWS.EXE -- originally had several limitations. One of
    them
    was the line length limit of 70.

    Yeah. Always blame the creator, not the user ...

    In 2001 the then Fidonews editor Frank Vest an I had many netmail
    exchanges
    about the limitations, but then in particular about the ASCII only requirement. So I spent several hours in DEBUG, hacking the original EXE file, finding and removing that stupid ASCII only limitation. The result you have been able to enjoy for almost two decades now.

    That is partly my fault, having been a participant on his BBS.
    Drove him nuts posting messages in Cajun French ...

    But I didn't go for any of the printer related code -- line and page
    length
    -- because by then it was still quite popular to print out the Snooze on your printer.

    Today's printers have no problem with all languages being supported.

    Ergo, the printer related code are still there. If anyone feels like it, feel free to produce a modern MAKENEWS.EXE file, and I'll be happy to not only use it, but just like Frank Vest two decades ago, partly thanks to my hack, pass on the baton to the next Fidonews editor.

    Wow! A contest to become the next FidoNews editor! How cool!
    Is this contest open to everybody, or limited to sysops-only?

    I've now been the editor for much longer than all of the previous Fidonews editors in total, so I think it's about time to contemplate my retirement...

    OMG! You really are serious! I'd better update my status from
    probationary sysop to being a fully responsible sysop so I can make
    myself eligible!

    --Lee

    --
    I Take A Sheet In The Pool

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