Hello Everybody,

Funny that Zone 2 has an Echolist Keeper but no Echolist,
and Zone 1 has an Echolist but no Echolist Keeper.

3.4. Echolist Keeper
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It is the duty of the Echolist Keeper to compile and make available a
listing of Echoes on the Backbone whose list they maintain. The content
and format of the list shall be at the sole discretion of the Echolist
Keeper, but shall include the Echo name, Moderator's name and
Moderator's netmail address for each Echo. The Echolist Keeper shall
also hold copies of the requirements applicable to each listed Echo
(The Echo Rules). Ideally the Echolist Keeper should be granted an administrative address by the Zone Nodelist Co-Ordinator.

Of course, no private elist/echolist has any official status in
Fidonet. Isn't that right? But hey. At least Zone 2 does have
an official echomail policy, quite unlike Zone 1, which has no
policy (or moderators) at all.

--Lee

--
Our Nuts, Your Mouth

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 7/03/2019 09:49, Lee Lofaso -> All wrote:

Hello Everybody,

Funny that Zone 2 has an Echolist Keeper but no Echolist,
and Zone 1 has an Echolist but no Echolist Keeper.

3.4. Echolist Keeper
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It is the duty of the Echolist Keeper to compile and make available a listing of Echoes on the Backbone whose list they maintain.

Could it be that Z2 has no Echolist because they have no "backbone" to carry the echoes?

I suspect that this "rule" was written by Z1...

--

Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

On 07 Mar 19 11:18:18, David Drummond said the following to Lee Lofaso:

Could it be that Z2 has no Echolist because they have no "backbone" to carr the echoes?

Ahh David's back! Where have you been?

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

On 6/03/2019 21:26, Nick Andre -> David Drummond wrote:

Could it be that Z2 has no Echolist because they have no "backbone"
to carry the echoes?

Ahh David's back! Where have you been?

Around and about. I retired from the working world a couple of years ago and now I spend some of my time travelling around with my ute and "slide on camper".

While I'm on the road I have limited connectivity - but I find other things out
there to capture my interest day to day.

--

Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

Could it be that Z2 has no Echolist because they have no "backbone" NA>DD> to carr the echoes?

Ahh David's back! Where have you been?

Probably eating dust on his bike while discovering he really lives on an island
and escape is impossible...

You'll find out when you retire ... if you retire ... ever ...

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Could it be that Z2 has no Echolist because they have no "backbone" to carry the echoes?

Sorta, well observed.

I suspect that this "rule" was written by Z1...

Sorta, well observed.

Several Z2 regions dropped the majority of the echoes because they serve no purpose anyway other than the self-gratification of the self-appointed moderator.

My Region has 2 or 3 left with minor traffic, same for R28 where only a few echoes remain and no backbone-system is needed. Likewise for R24, they may have
some more echoes but not many I think... most people linking to eachother you don't need a backbone.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

On 7/03/2019 07:41, Ward Dossche -> Nick Andre wrote:

Could it be that Z2 has no Echolist because they have no "backbone"
to carr the echoes?

Ahh David's back! Where have you been?

Probably eating dust on his bike while discovering he really lives on an island and escape is impossible...

I don't ride any more RSI issues in the elbows...


--

Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

Hi Lee,

On 2019-03-07 00:49:43, you wrote to All:

Funny that Zone 2 has an Echolist Keeper

We do?

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

On 2019 Mar 07 11:18:18, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

3.4. Echolist Keeper
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It is the duty of the Echolist Keeper to compile and make available a
listing of Echoes on the Backbone whose list they maintain.

Could it be that Z2 has no Echolist because they have no "backbone" to carry the echoes?

I suspect that this "rule" was written by Z1...

if that's from the Z1-rejected Echomail Policy 1 (aka EP1) document, then yes, it originated in Z1 with input from moderators and others from all over the network, TTBOMK... Z1 rejected it, as written, for various reasons that i do not recall off hand...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... This message was made with recycled electrons.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

David Drummond wrote to Nick Andre <=-

While I'm on the road I have limited connectivity - but I find other things out there to capture my interest day to day.

Oh, dear - we lost another one to REAL LIFE.



... Have you done something wrong?
--- MultiMail/XT v0.51
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Hello mark,

3.4. Echolist Keeper
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It is the duty of the Echolist Keeper to compile and make available

a

listing of Echoes on the Backbone whose list they maintain.

Could it be that Z2 has no Echolist because they have no "backbone"

to

carry the echoes?

I suspect that this "rule" was written by Z1...

if that's from the Z1-rejected Echomail Policy 1 (aka EP1) document, then yes, it originated in Z1 with input from moderators and others from all over the network, TTBOMK... Z1 rejected it, as written, for various

reasons

that i do not recall off hand...

Zone 1 does not have an echomail policy. Does not need one.
Has a Robot for that purposes. This Backbone Robot Keeper is
appointed by the OBO, and does all things, for all nodelist
clerks, in Zone 1.

This is part of a help file, which explains it all -

Overseer of Backbone Operations (OBO) - Person responsible for the
day-to-day operation of the North American Backbone at the zone
level. He coordinates routing to ensure reliable and efficient
transport of echomail and Backbone-routed netmail while avoiding
creation of duplicate messages. He also serves as liaison to the
ZEC and to other distribution systems.

Backbone Robot Keeper - Person responsible for the maintenance and
operation of the Backbone Robot program. This program automates
certain aspects of Backbone operation, as described in this file.
The Backbone Robot Keeper is appointed by the OBO.

Echomail Coordinators (ECs) - Echomail Coordinators have been
recognized by Fidonet since 1987. The Zone Echomail Coordinator
(ZEC) coordinates echomail at the zone level. Region Echomail
Coordinators (RECs) coordinate echomail at the region level.
Net Echomail Coordinators (NECs) coordinate echomail at the net
level.

So, this "person" (which is a robot), is a trained puppy to do
the bidding of the Z1C? Who trained it? If never trained, I sure
hope it does not pee or defecate on somebody's carpet ...

--Lee

--
Often Licked, Never Beaten

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello David,

Funny that Zone 2 has an Echolist Keeper but no Echolist,
and Zone 1 has an Echolist but no Echolist Keeper.

3.4. Echolist Keeper
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It is the duty of the Echolist Keeper to compile and make available a
listing of Echoes on the Backbone whose list they maintain.

Could it be that Z2 has no Echolist because they have no "backbone" to

carry

the echoes?

The idea of an Echolist Keeper was a proposal - for Zone 2 only.
The idea of an Echolist was a reality - for a select few in Zone 1.
The idea of any zone needing a "backbone" for a handful of echoes
is just plumb nuts.

I suspect that this "rule" was written by Z1...

More likely by only one nutcase rather than an entire zone ...

--Lee

--
Every Bottom Needs A Top

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Wilfred,

Funny that Zone 2 has an Echolist Keeper

We do?

It was a proposal. Just a proposal. For Zone 2 only.
Apparently never accepted by the Echolist Keeper to be.
Whoever he/she/it was supposed to be.

--Lee

--
We Put Big Loads In Tight Places

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 8/03/2019 09:00, Lee Lofaso -> David Drummond wrote:

Could it be that Z2 has no Echolist because they have no "backbone" to carry
the echoes?

The idea of an Echolist Keeper was a proposal - for Zone 2 only.
The idea of an Echolist was a reality - for a select few in Zone 1.
The idea of any zone needing a "backbone" for a handful of echoes
is just plumb nuts.

I suspect that this "rule" was written by Z1...

More likely by only one nutcase rather than an entire zone ...

Indeed! The chance of all of them agreeing on something would be most unlikely.

--

Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

On 8/03/2019 09:00, Lee Lofaso -> Wilfred van Velzen wrote:

Hello Wilfred,

Funny that Zone 2 has an Echolist Keeper

We do?

It was a proposal. Just a proposal. For Zone 2 only.
Apparently never accepted by the Echolist Keeper to be.
Whoever he/she/it was supposed to be.

Even when there was nothing to "keep"?

--

Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

I suspect that this "rule" was written by Z1...

More likely by only one nutcase rather than an entire zone ...

Indeed! The chance of all of them agreeing on something would be most unlikely.

Having lived "the old days" there was a case to be made for an institution such
as "a backbone".

Then something happened...

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Funny that Zone 2 has an Echolist Keeper

We do?

It was a proposal. Just a proposal. For Zone 2 only.
Apparently never accepted by the Echolist Keeper to be.
Whoever he/she/it was supposed to be.

Even when there was nothing to "keep"?

There was an echolist-keeper in Z2 by the name of Peter Witschi from Switzerland, some 25 years ago or so. It was decided that the Z1 and Z2 echolists would be merged into 1. It would be managed by this Peter Witschi.

Then something happened ...

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

On 08 Mar 19 00:00:12, Lee Lofaso said the following to Mark Lewis:

So, this "person" (which is a robot), is a trained puppy to do
the bidding of the Z1C? Who trained it? If never trained, I sure
hope it does not pee or defecate on somebody's carpet ...

I'm just happy and content with the knowledge that I live inside your head for free and eternally troll you simply by occupying the 1:1/0 address.

The discussions about you, Nodelist Police Commissioner Van Velzen, Alexy "I can't Git No Satisfaction" Vissarionov and others continue at tremendous length in the Zone 1 Secret Society echoes.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hi Lee,

On 2019-03-08 03:37:30, Nick Andre wrote to you:

Nodelist Police Commissioner Van Velzen,

Cool! I have been promoted to Commissioner by the head of "the Zone 1 Secret Society". Of course that was a secret too, so I didn't know that myself untill now...


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

On 07 Mar 19 07:41:16, Ward Dossche said the following to Nick Andre:

Probably eating dust on his bike while discovering he really lives on an island and escape is impossible...

You'll find out when you retire ... if you retire ... ever ...

I'll likely end up having to work for a long, long time.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

On 08 Mar 19 10:52:15, Wilfred Van Velzen said the following to Lee Lofaso:

Nodelist Police Commissioner Van Velzen,

Cool! I have been promoted to Commissioner by the head of "the Zone 1 Secre Society". Of course that was a secret too, so I didn't know that myself unt now...

Its also a big secret why Lee has Nodelist Derangement Syndrome... his tap-dancing around it gets too fast for my eyesight.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

SGID: 1:229/426 231D1BF0
On 07 Mar 19 07:41:16, Ward Dossche said the following to Nick Andre:

Probably eating dust on his bike while discovering he really lives on

an island and escape is impossible...

You'll find out when you retire ... if you retire ... ever ...

I'll likely end up having to work for a long, long time.

I did for a long time, too, and there are many bumps along the way.


Regards,

Roger

--- D'Bridge (SR41)
* Origin: I'll never get over Macho Grande (1:3828/7)

Nick Andre wrote to Lee Lofaso <=-

The discussions about you, Nodelist Police Commissioner Van Velzen,
Alexy "I can't Git No Satisfaction" Vissarionov and others continue at tremendous length in the Zone 1 Secret Society echoes.

I thought the first rule of "Secret Society Echoes" was that you do not
speak about "Secret Society Echoes"?



... How does this work, is there an orientation?
--- MultiMail/XT v0.51
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Having rejoined Fido after 15+ years and moved from Zone 6 Philippines to
Zone 3 Australia it would have made it easier if there were a Z3 echolist for the few echos we have in Z3 when setting up a new system and of course it
helps if there are changes (probably need a blue moon).

Thanks to Paul Quinn it was soon sorted.

Something happened is a great way of saying it.

Terry

On Mar 08, 2019 08:44am, Ward Dossche wrote to David Drummond:

I suspect that this "rule" was written by Z1...

More likely by only one nutcase rather than an entire zone ...

Indeed! The chance of all of them agreeing on something would be most
unlikely.

Having lived "the old days" there was a case to be made for an
institution such as "a backbone".

Then something happened...

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Kind regards, Terry Roati -tfb-bbs.org

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)

TERRY ROATI wrote to Ward Dossche <=-

Having rejoined Fido after 15+ years and moved from Zone 6 Philippines
to Zone 3 Australia it would have made it easier if there were a Z3 echolist for the few echos we have in Z3 when setting up a new system
and of course it helps if there are changes (probably need a blue
moon).

Yeah, there seems to be an aversion to the idea of an echolist, probably because people are averse to giving power to one person to maintain the
list. Who said Anarchy is dead?

I've heard arguments that with multiple feeds that there's no need for an echolist (no backbone, ergo, no echolist) but the point that you need to
find out what's available, somehow, seems to be missed.



... Have you done something wrong?
--- MultiMail/XT v0.51
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Hi Kurt,

On 2019-03-09 08:12:00, you wrote to TERRY ROATI:

I've heard arguments that with multiple feeds that there's no need for
an echolist (no backbone, ergo, no echolist) but the point that you
need to find out what's available, somehow, seems to be missed.

Just follow the STATS area for a couple of weeks. You'll get a pretty good idea
of what's available and has traffic...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Yep, some people forget that there are old sysops and new sysops joining fidonet, it would be difficult and time consuming to setup a BBS without these documents. Of that is why there were so many useful programs made to help do this.

An Echolist keeper should only be an administrative role, information in document out. But your right that some people see power in any role.

Every now again some people need to reminded that this is only a hobby to enjoyed but for some being annoying is their real hobby.

On Mar 09, 2019 08:20am, Kurt Weiske wrote to TERRY ROATI:

TERRY ROATI wrote to Ward Dossche <=-

Having rejoined Fido after 15+ years and moved from Zone 6 Philippines
to Zone 3 Australia it would have made it easier if there were a Z3
echolist for the few echos we have in Z3 when setting up a new system
and of course it helps if there are changes (probably need a blue
moon).

Yeah, there seems to be an aversion to the idea of an echolist, probably because people are averse to giving power to one person to maintain the list. Who said Anarchy is dead?

I've heard arguments that with multiple feeds that there's no need for
an echolist (no backbone, ergo, no echolist) but the point that you
need to find out what's available, somehow, seems to be missed.

... Have you done something wrong?
--- MultiMail/XT v0.51
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech
(1:218/700)

Kind regards, Terry Roati -tfb-bbs.org

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)

On 2019 Mar 09 08:12:00, you wrote to TERRY ROATI:

the point that you need to find out what's available, somehow, seems
to be missed.

completely astounding since that's the whole reason the echolist was created in
the first place...

----- snip -----
FidoNews 5-33 Page 7 15 Aug 1988


Mike Fuchs
1:1/201

EchoList - The EchoMail Conference List
(It's bAAAAaaaack...)

Ever wonder what all those EchoMail conferences are about?
Ever wonder if there was already a conference on some
specific topic? Well that's why the EchoList was originally
created. And that's why I've resurrected it.

For those of you who might not be familiar with it, a little
history...

The EchoList is an informal listing of EchoMail conferences,
as described by each conference's moderator. It is now a
monthly publication which attempts to document certain
interesting information about EchoMail Conferences;
"interesting" to people who would like to participate,
interesting to EchoMail Coordinators and those who route the
conference traffic, and potentially interesting to the
Conference Moderator. The base product of the EchoList
database is the detailed Conference listing. But, as needs
are identified which can be satisfied with the available
information, additional reports and analyses can be
developed.

The EchoList was originated by Thomas Kenny, who maintained
it as a text file completely manually. It was a time
consuming effort, and was updated on a very sporadic and
infrequent basis. The last edition published this way was
December 1987.

Several people (myself included) were working with Thomas on
developing ways to automate the maintenance, and provide a
structured database that could be used for things other than
a simple conference listing. As a result, he assembled a
specification for submitting messages that would be used for
updating the list. Unfortunately, Thomas decided to drop
out of FidoNet before any of the code was completed. He
continues to have my gratitude for all he put in to getting
the EchoList as far as he did.

Since I was interested (for purely personal desire) in
having an EchoList, I picked-up that last 1987 EchoList,
built an R:base database and application, and keyed the
whole thing in. The result is a semi-automated update
application, and some nice report generation facilities.
There's a lot more to be done. It's still a VERY labor-
intensive task. But, I'm happy to say I've been able to
publish all updates received for the last 3 months on-time.
Now, I'm going to try and ruin that by inviting more
updates...

HISTORY LESSON OVER...
That's why I wrote this article. It has been pointed out to

FidoNews 5-33 Page 8 15 Aug 1988


me that there are a lot of people who don't realize the
EchoList is available. Most importantly, there are a lot of
Conference Moderators who don't know, and as a result their
conferences aren't in, or will soon be dropped from, that
list.

You see, one of things that seems to be widely agreed upon
is that, in order to be really useful, an EchoList needs
some control criteria. Hating bureaucracy as I do, I've
only implemented two (at this point). First, in order to be
listed, a conference must have a responsible party to whom
questions can be directed; that person is the Moderator.
Second, since reference information is only valuable if it's
up-to-date, an EchoList conference entry must be updated via
message to me on a regular basis.

So there's the reason for the article. A number of
conferences have already been dropped because they had no
moderator identified. (How anybody's supposed to join a
conference when there's no one identified to contact, I'll
never know, but so be it.) The other thing is that most of
the entries' last-update dates are VERY old. Starting with
this next EchoList, I will start enforcing a purge criteria.
An awful lot of conferences will be dropped as a result.
Many are dead wood anyway. But there are many such
conferences I know are alive and well, and I hope this
article gets the message to those moderators. If you
frequent a conference important to you, how about letting
the moderator know about the EchoList?

Oh yeah, I lied. There is one more control, but it is for
the Moderators themselves. A Moderator can submit an entry
that becomes password protected. From then-on, the
moderator has some feeling of control over the information
listed in the EchoList for their conference.

SO, HOW DO YOU UPDATE THE ECHOLIST?
There are two ARC files that I publish. One is the EchoList
itself--which I'll get back to. The other is ELISTMOD.ARC.
It is essential that you get a copy of this file, as it
contains detailed instructions on the update message format
and contents. This article is going to be too long as it
is, so I can't put the whole thing here. Suffice it to say,
it's a fairly simple, but strictly structured, message
format that has to be NetMailed to me at 1:1/201.

The other file I referred-to is ELISTnnn.ARC, where nnn is
the edition. The August 1, 1988 edition is X03, and it
contains the basic, detailed Conference list, and a few
ancillary cross-reference listings. I ship both of these
files, when updated, to each of the Regional EchoMail
Coordinators in the U.S., plus the Zone Gates for Zones 2,
3, and 7 (in hopes they will pass them along). I have no
idea whether any of these people pass them along, make them
available for download, or what. I just hope they do. If
you can't find them locally, you can use the "magic" file

FidoNews 5-33 Page 9 15 Aug 1988


names (specify them without a period or file extension):

ECHOMOD - to get the latest EchoList update instructions,
ECHOLIST - to get the latest EchoList,

in a SEAdog or WaZoo file request to 1:1/201. They are also
first-time-user downloadable from my BBS at (201)506-0472.

WHAT IS A MODERATOR?
I needed to establish some definitions for the EchoList, so
these are MY definitions and others' may vary. Critical to
the identification of an EchoMail conference is the
identification of its Moderator. A Moderator is the person
who defines a Conference, and keeps it on track; making sure
message content is within reasonable bounds of the topic for
which the conference exists. A Moderator should also set
the base rules of the conference and cut off abuses of the
media when they occur. IF A CONFERENCE HAS NO MODERATOR, IT
WILL NOT BE LISTED IN THE ECHOLIST. If you know of a
conference which you feel is important to the community and
it doesn't have a moderator I seriously suggest you consider
the job. Basically, then, the Moderator "owns" the
CONFERENCE.

This is specifically contrasted with ECHOMAIL COORDINATORS.
A dedicated group of volunteers have identified themselves
as willing to expedite distribution of national EchoMail
conferences. There is (identified at the beginning of the
NodeList) a National EchoMail Coordinator, and one Regional
EchoMail Coordinator for each FidoNet Region. These people
run the National EchoMail Backbone, and facilitate timely
and accurate distribution of the bigger conferences in the
U.S. They "own" that particular distribution channel, not
the Conferences themselves.

There are also nodes who can afford to aggregate a large
number of Conferences and facilitate distribution. They are
frequently referred to as EchoMail Hubs, though it's a
fairly unofficial title, I think.

SO WHAT'S IN IT?
I don't want to make this article too long, but as a brief
overview:

The minimum information required for an EchoList entry
includes: The Symbolic Area Name used by the conference, A
Title or brief descriptive phrase for the conference, the
Moderator's Name and the Moderator's Node Number. Certain
Moderators do not want to publicize the AREA: name, and the
ability to supress the display of the Area Name in the
EchoList is provided. Perhaps the best way to show all the
various fields in the EchoList is to show the format for
submitting additions and updates, so an EchoList update
message would be...

To: ECHOLIST

FidoNews 5-33 Page 10 15 Aug 1988


At: 1:1/201
Subject: MODerator UPDate
or MODerator DELete
or COORdinator UPDate
or PARTicipant UPDate

AREAname <symbolic area name> </NOshow>
TITLe <brief area title for sorting>
DESCription <A full description of the conference,
audience, topics, ...>
MODerator <moderator name>, <moderator node>
PASSword <current password>, <new password>
TOTalnodes <number of nodes carrying this conference>
VOLume <number of messages>/<MONth or DAY or WEEK>
RESTrictions </SYSop> </MOD-apvl> </MEMber>
DISTribution <areas or distribution vehicles of note>
GATEway <gateways to other zones & networks crossed
by the conference>
SEENby <node list>
PATH <node list>

Please don't submit an update based solely on this article,
as there's a lot more documentation in ELISTMOD.ARC. I just
wanted to give you a flavor for what's there. Constructive
criticism, advice, and other butting-in is ALWAYS welcome.

Enjoy,
And have fun with it!

- Mike Fuchs, 1:1/201
----- snip -----

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... I don't have the solution, but I admire the problem.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 2019 Mar 09 17:41:14, you wrote to Kurt Weiske:

I've heard arguments that with multiple feeds that there's no need for
an echolist (no backbone, ergo, no echolist) but the point that you
need to find out what's available, somehow, seems to be missed.

Just follow the STATS area for a couple of weeks. You'll get a pretty good idea of what's available and has traffic...

only from those systems that post their statistics to the stats echo and then only if those stats contain data on the echomail they handle... there's only a few systems (3) that even post to the stats echo... plus, how is someone going to find out about the stats echo in the first place? catch-22...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... First thing to go in a zealot? Humor. Second: Perspective.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

Just follow the STATS area for a couple of weeks. You'll get a pretty good idea of what's available and has traffic...

We should all try to look at Fidonet from the point of view of a new/prospective sysop. I've seen some looking and others joining recently.

Othernets do a much better job of showing what their nets have to offer
than we do.


... Where are we now?
--- MultiMail/XT v0.51
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Hello Wilfred,

Nodelist Police Commissioner Van Velzen,

Cool! I have been promoted to Commissioner by the head of "the Zone 1

Secret

Society". Of course that was a secret too, so I didn't know that myself untill now...

Of course, nothing officially exists. You do understand.
As such, we can neither confirm, nor deny, our own existence.
Assuming we exist at all. <written in invisible ink>

--Lee

--
Every Bottom Needs A Top

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Nick,

Probably eating dust on his bike while discovering he really lives on an
island and escape is impossible...

You'll find out when you retire ... if you retire ... ever ...

I'll likely end up having to work for a long, long time.

Nobody should have to work. Ever.

In my view, everything ought to be free. That way, we would
all have the leisure to do whatever want, if and whenever we want.
Nobody would be forced to do a thing for anybody else, as that
would be a form of slavery or indentured servitude.

The idea of having to work 'til you drop is totally anathema
to me. Especially since the wealthiest of the wealthy do nothing
at all to earn their keep, choosing to play golf all day at the
expense of those who have nothing, or next to nothing.

What we have in office today is a liar and a tax cheat, who
has surrounded himself with other liars and tax cheats. Some
of whom have been convicted and sentenced to prison.

And to think he might actually win a second term. How disgusting
a people can we be? A guy who loves dictators more than his own
people, asking for them to reward him by granting him a second
term? He must really take us all to be fools.

And maybe we are. So we do have only ourselves to blame.

--Lee

--
We Make Your Wet Dreams Come True

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Wilfred,

I've heard arguments that with multiple feeds that there's no need for
an echolist (no backbone, ergo, no echolist) but the point that you
need to find out what's available, somehow, seems to be missed.

Just follow the STATS area for a couple of weeks. You'll get a pretty

good

idea of what's available and has traffic...

Why do that when you can run your own?

Bj”rn Felten wrote a message in JAMNNTPD -

30 day statistics from March 2018:

Total number of users: 30
Total connection time: 38d 12h 37m 17s in 5902 connections
Total posted messages: 94

From March 2019:

Total number of users: 93
Total connection time: 19d 17h 6m 17s in 7700 connections
Total posted messages: 214

I used a slightly modified loganalyser.pl by Johan Billing:


http://eljaco.se/FILES/Billing/la.rar

The original:

http://eljaco.se/FILES/Billing/loganalyzer.zip


Nobody is dependent on the STATS area anymore. Both sysops
and probationary sysops can compile their own, thanks to such
programs being freely available.

--Lee

--
Sleep With Someone New

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Kurt,

Having rejoined Fido after 15+ years and moved from Zone 6 Philippines
to Zone 3 Australia it would have made it easier if there were a Z3
echolist for the few echos we have in Z3 when setting up a new system
and of course it helps if there are changes (probably need a blue
moon).

Yeah, there seems to be an aversion to the idea of an echolist, probably because people are averse to giving power to one person to maintain the list. Who said Anarchy is dead?

A cooperative anarchy is something all can strive for, kind of like
herding cats. But how many folks truly believe such a task can ever
be accomplished?

I've heard arguments that with multiple feeds that there's no need for an echolist (no backbone, ergo, no echolist) but the point that you need to find out what's available, somehow, seems to be missed.

A pencil and paper works for me. :)

--Lee

--
Laying Pipe Since '88

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

how is someone going to find out about the stats echo in the first
place? catch-22...

Not really.

1) Hook up to a JamNNTPd based BBS nearby.

2) Spend some time reading up on the echoes sounding relevant. And yes, I know that not all "moderators" are all too eager to name "their" echoes well. Their loss...

3) Register on said JamNNTPd based BBS and start asking questions.

The rest is a walk in the park, far from Catch-22.


..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 2019 Mar 10 18:31:48, you wrote to me:

how is someone going to find out about the stats echo in the first
place? catch-22...

Not really.

yes, really...

1) Hook up to a JamNNTPd based BBS nearby.

how? how can yo find them? catch-22 from the start...

2) Spend some time reading up on the echoes sounding relevant. And
yes,
I know that not all "moderators" are all too eager to name "their" echoes well. Their loss...

3) Register on said JamNNTPd based BBS and start asking questions.

The rest is a walk in the park, far from Catch-22.

you start with a double catch-22...

1. newbies to fidonet won't even know what a JAMNNTPd server/BBS is...
2. where are they going to find these JAMNNTPd systems...

maybe it is a triple catch-22 in that they likely don't even know what a news server or news client is... in other words, some folks are assuming others have
knowledge and/or experience that may not be valid assumptions...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... BBSing ... time's blackhole.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 10.3.2019 17:48, mark lewis -> Bj”rn Felten :

1) Hook up to a JamNNTPd based BBS nearby.

how? how can yo find them?

Read fidonews. The file, you know. :-D

'Tommi

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.
* Origin: smapinntpd/linux @ nntps://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/1)

Re: Echolist Keeper
By: Bj”rn Felten to mark lewis on Sun Mar 10 2019 06:31 pm

The rest is a walk in the park, far from Catch-22.

It is obvious to me that you aren't looking for advice or how to do things better, you have "your way or the highway".

Walk in the park my ass


dmxrob þ BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (1:290/10)

Re: Echolist Keeper
By: Tommi Koivula to mark lewis on Sun Mar 10 2019 08:36 pm

Read fidonews. The file, you know. :-D

fidonews.org - the first thing it shows me is newsletters from 1999.

Real helpful.

dmxrob þ BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (1:290/10)

Kurt Weiske wrote to Wilfred van Velzen <=-

Just follow the STATS area for a couple of weeks. You'll get a pretty good idea of what's available and has traffic...

We should all try to look at Fidonet from the point of view of a new/prospective sysop. I've seen some looking and others joining
recently.

Othernets do a much better job of showing what their nets have to
offer than we do.

Very good point. Most Othernets that I've seen publish (usually
weekly) an "infopack.zip" or similar. It contains *GOOD*
instructions on how to apply for a node number (including *WHO* to
apply to!), a list of echos, a recent nodelist, and more. Really
very helpful in getting setup for a new network, regardless of previous/current Fido experience.



... "42? 7 and a half million years and all you can come up with is 42?!"
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Bj”rn Felten wrote to mark lewis <=-

how is someone going to find out about the stats echo in the first
place? catch-22...

Not really.

Oh yes, really.

1) Hook up to a JamNNTPd based BBS nearby.

How is some newbie going to find such a thing? 99+% of users
(including most Fido sysops) don't even know what the term
JamNNTPd means! Or what NNTP/Usenet means. Or how to access such
a thing, including what client software is available. Or how to
use such software. Or how to find a Usenet server. Or.....

3) Register on said JamNNTPd based BBS and start asking
questions.

The rest is a walk in the park, far from Catch-22.

You assume/presume an awful lot. Virtually nobody could ever do
that. And please, don't cue up the "Well, back in my day, a
'effin potential sysop could do....." bullcrap, either.



... Computer Hacker wanted. Must have own axe.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

On 2019 Mar 10 18:31:48, you wrote to me:

how is someone going to find out about the stats echo in the first
place? catch-22...

Not really.

yes, really...

1) Hook up to a JamNNTPd based BBS nearby.

how? how can yo find them? catch-22 from the start...

2) Spend some time reading up on the echoes sounding relevant. And
yes,
I know that not all "moderators" are all too eager to name "their" echoes

well. Their loss...

3) Register on said JamNNTPd based BBS and start asking questions.

The rest is a walk in the park, far from Catch-22.

you start with a double catch-22...

1. newbies to fidonet won't even know what a JAMNNTPd server/BBS
is...
2. where are they going to find these JAMNNTPd systems...

Do they need to know? Is it essential to know this to obtain a node number and
get connected to Fidonet? I think not.


--- NiKom v2.5.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:201/120.0)

On 10 Mar 19 18:25:51, Lee Lofaso said the following to Nick Andre:

I'll likely end up having to work for a long, long time.

Nobody should have to work. Ever.

In my view, everything ought to be free. That way, we would
all have the leisure to do whatever want, if and whenever we want.
Nobody would be forced to do a thing for anybody else, as that
would be a form of slavery or indentured servitude.

Hahahahahahahahaahahahahaha

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hello Bj”rn,

how is someone going to find out about the stats echo in the first
place? catch-22...

Not really.

1) Hook up to a JamNNTPd based BBS nearby.

2) Spend some time reading up on the echoes sounding relevant. And yes, I know that not all "moderators" are all too eager to name "their" echoes well. Their loss...

3) Register on said JamNNTPd based BBS and start asking questions.

The rest is a walk in the park, far from Catch-22.

Been there. Done that. But no STATS echo found.
Oh. There it is. Do I have to add it first before
I can read it?

--Lee

--
Everybody Loves Our Buns

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Been there. Done that. But no STATS echo found.
Oh. There it is. Do I have to add it first before
I can read it?

Yeah, there is that big problem first, of course.

Never underestimate the newer generations. My six year old grandsons managed
to take over my TV-set from their iPad, and I didn't even have Chromecast running by then.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 2019 Mar 10 21:02:38, you wrote to me:

The rest is a walk in the park, far from Catch-22.

you start with a double catch-22...

1. newbies to fidonet won't even know what a JAMNNTPd server/BBS
is...
2. where are they going to find these JAMNNTPd systems...

Do they need to know? Is it essential to know this to obtain a node

number

and get connected to Fidonet? I think not.

according to BF, everyone is already born with this knowledge... it is so easy anyone can do it in their sleep and wake in the morning with a fully connected and configured FTN setup ;)

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Hard DISK? Gee lady, I misunderstood you.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

  By: Tommi Koivula to mark lewis on Sun Mar 10 2019 08:36 pm

Read fidonews. The file, you know. :-D

fidonews.org - the first thing it shows me is newsletters from 1999.

Real helpful.

Indeed.

Maybe I should start publishing the magazine at fidonews.mine.nu or news.fidonet.fi ...

'Tommi

---
* Origin: nntps://fidonews.mine.nu - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/6.0)

Lee Lofaso wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

I've heard arguments that with multiple feeds that there's no need for an echolist (no backbone, ergo, no echolist) but the point that you need to find out what's available, somehow, seems to be missed.

A pencil and paper works for me. :)

Again, the point here is regarding new and prospective sysops. Othernets
are attracting new and returning sysops in much greater numbers than
Fidonet, my thinking is in part because of having timely and accurate information about the net available to a prospective sysop.

Pencil and paper may work for you, but you're missing the bigger point.


... Do you know where you are?
--- MultiMail/XT v0.51
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Dan Clough wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

Very good point. Most Othernets that I've seen publish (usually
weekly) an "infopack.zip" or similar. It contains *GOOD*
instructions on how to apply for a node number (including *WHO* to
apply to!), a list of echos, a recent nodelist, and more. Really
very helpful in getting setup for a new network, regardless of previous/current Fido experience.

Contrast with Fidonet - "Find a regional coordinator, set up your system
with a /9999 address, poll them, and wait an indeterminate time for instructions..."

"You want a list of echoes? Google Fidonet echoes, and hopefully you'll
find the updated web page."

Now, I'm liking the idea of a Fidonet infopack with as much timely
information as we can muster and clear instructions.



... What do you think of the guests?
--- MultiMail/XT v0.51
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

  By: Tommi Koivula to mark lewis on Sun Mar 10 2019 08:36 pm >>

Read fidonews. The file, you know. :-D

fidonews.org - the first thing it shows me is newsletters from 1999. >>
Real helpful.

Indeed.

Maybe I should start publishing the magazine at fidonews.mine.nu or

news.fidonet.fi

I think Fidonews should be published whenever there is some actual content to read, then people would actually read it.


--- NiKom v2.5.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:201/120.0)

Hi Joacim.

11 Mar 19 16:30:10, you wrote to me:

I think Fidonews should be published whenever there is some actual content to read, then people would actually read it.

Indeed. Nowadays there's nothing much than all the same shit week by week posted by a robot. Plan to support the current form of fidonews withdrawn.

'Tommi

---
* Origin: ==================================== (2:221/360.8110)

On 11 Mar 19 16:30:11, Joacim Melin said the following to Tommi Koivula:

Maybe I should start publishing the magazine at fidonews.mine.nu or

news.fidonet.fi

I think Fidonews should be published whenever there is some actual content read, then people would actually read it.

Even though I may disagree with Bjorn on some things, I can at least look forward to the snooze being published "on time". It at least lets me know that it has not been forgotten. I'd rather have no content than no snooze at all.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Kurt Weiske wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Very good point. Most Othernets that I've seen publish (usually
weekly) an "infopack.zip" or similar. It contains *GOOD*
instructions on how to apply for a node number (including *WHO* to
apply to!), a list of echos, a recent nodelist, and more. Really
very helpful in getting setup for a new network, regardless of previous/current Fido experience.

Contrast with Fidonet - "Find a regional coordinator, set up your
system with a /9999 address, poll them, and wait an indeterminate
time for instructions..."

Careful, that's a little too clear and concise. I don't think we
should tell a n00b to use /9999, they should have to figure that
out for themselves, like our Grandpas did... :)

"You want a list of echoes? Google Fidonet echoes, and hopefully
you'll find the updated web page."

Yes, but not very likely.

Now, I'm liking the idea of a Fidonet infopack with as much
timely information as we can muster and clear instructions.

Me too. We may have started something here. In fact I'm pretty
sure of that, and more to come.


... A day without sunshine is like night.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

On 11/03/2019 16:30, Joacim Melin -> Tommi Koivula wrote:

Maybe I should start publishing the magazine at fidonews.mine.nu

or news.fidonet.fi

I think Fidonews should be published whenever there is some actual
content to read, then people would actually read it.

Have you considered submitting an article?

--

Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

On 12/03/2019 03:19, Tommi Koivula -> Joacim Melin wrote:

I think Fidonews should be published whenever there is some actual content
to read, then people would actually read it.

Indeed. Nowadays there's nothing much than all the same shit week by
week posted by a robot. Plan to support the current form of fidonews withdrawn.

Bugger! Now I'll never get to read the article you've penned.

--

Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

On 12/03/2019 08:50, Dan Clough -> Kurt Weiske wrote:

Contrast with Fidonet - "Find a regional coordinator, set up your
system with a /9999 address, poll them, and wait an indeterminate
time for instructions..."

Careful, that's a little too clear and concise. I don't think we
should tell a n00b to use /9999, they should have to figure that
out for themselves, like our Grandpas did... :

Could it be that Grandpa managed to read the Fidonet Policy which documented that procedure?

--

Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

Re: Echolist Keeper
By: David Drummond to Dan Clough on Wed Mar 13 2019 08:06 am

Once upon a time Fidonet sysops were "computer enthusiasts". Now they have turned into "point and click"ers.

Everyone has to start somewhere. I've been working in the IT industry all my life, and have programmed in everything from Assembler to C++ to Javascript and beyond. That doesn't mean that I can just sit down in front of any software package and be an expert in it within minutes. Especially one that is not documented, or the documentation is hidden/horrendously out of date.

Many folks I know who are getting back into BBSing are doing it because they want to tinker again -- homelabbers are popping up everywhere. But they all need guidance. Someone to help them, not criticize everything they do. They want and are looking for a community - not some rigid, unchanging, "Well wait 10 years and MAYBE we'll think about it" hierarchy.
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (1:290/10)

David Drummond wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Good point. I know P4 documents that, but the point was that the instructions could be done much better. Many of the Othernets
"infopacks" are great examples of this. I believe there are some
works in progress on trying that for Fidonet... :)

There have been "infopacks" published in the past, time and time
again. They tend to favour particular software and as that
software is "superseded" then the "infopack" becomes obsolete.

I have not seen or heard of a Fidonet infopack. Ever.

Once upon a time Fidonet sysops were "computer enthusiasts". Now
they have turned into "point and click"ers.

That's a pretty broad generalization, perhaps true for the very
youngest who have never known anything else (other than
GUI/point-click). But there are still plenty of "enthusiasts" out
here, including me, who are not that way.



... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Re: Echolist Keeper
By: David Drummond to Dan Clough on Wed Mar 13 2019 08:06 am

Once upon a time Fidonet sysops were "computer enthusiasts". Now they have turned into "point and click"ers.

BBSing has always been about mutual assistance and gets easier as software matures. I could complain that running Synchronet on a multi-user system is "cheating" compared to when I had to set up a DOS BBS, mailer, batch file and FOSSIL, and the generation before who wrote their own BBS software could say the same.
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Once upon a time Fidonet sysops were "computer enthusiasts". Now

they have

turned into "point and click"ers.

The problem I noted when Windows came out was that it allowed people that shouldn't be allowed to be in the same room with a computer to use them -
sort of
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
* Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)

Hello Robert,

Once upon a time Fidonet sysops were "computer enthusiasts". Now they

have

turned into "point and click"ers.

Everyone has to start somewhere. I've been working in the IT industry all my
life, and have programmed in everything from Assembler to C++ to

Javascript

and
beyond. That doesn't mean that I can just sit down in front of any

software

package and be an expert in it within minutes. Especially one that is not documented, or the documentation is hidden/horrendously out of date.

Many folks I know who are getting back into BBSing are doing it because

they

want to tinker again -- homelabbers are popping up everywhere. But they

all

need guidance. Someone to help them, not criticize everything they do.

They

want and are looking for a community - not some rigid, unchanging, "Well wait
10 years and MAYBE we'll think about it" hierarchy.

You are right about the community part.

--Lee

--
Get Her Wet Here

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 14/03/2019 07:08, BOB ACKLEY -> DAVID DRUMMOND wrote:

Once upon a time Fidonet sysops were "computer enthusiasts". Now they have
turned into "point and click"ers.

The problem I noted when Windows came out was that it allowed people that shouldn't be allowed to be in the same room with a computer to use them - sort of

I concur but I won't admit that in public.

Bugger! I just did.

--

Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

Hello Joacim,

Maybe I should start publishing the magazine at fidonews.mine.nu

or news.fidonet.fi

I think Fidonews should be published whenever there is some actual
content to read, then people would actually read it.

Have you considered submitting an article?

When I have something close to being interesting to anyone to read I will consider it.

The web page you created is not interesting?

--Lee

--
Get Her Wet Here

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Bob,'s

Once upon a time Fidonet sysops were "computer enthusiasts". Now

they have

turned into "point and click"ers.

The problem I noted when Windows came out was that it allowed people that shouldn't be allowed to be in the same room with a computer to use them - sort of

Back in the 90's as I was visiting the public library in
Baton Rouge, in the computer section, there was a huge man
typing at one of the terminals. Although everyone was
expected to sign in using their real name, he chose to use
an alias. Not that it mattered, as everybody recognized
him. Shaquille O'Neal. Nicest guy in the world. With
tattoo on arm declaring "The World Is Mine".

The computer in front of him looked tiny. Hard to imagine
how a huge man like that could type on such a tiny keyboard,
much less sit down in a chair that could barely hold his
weight.

Shaq is actually a very bright person, not your usual jock.
Has a PhD. A real one. Nothing fake.

--Lee

--
We Put Big Loads In Tight Places

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 11/03/2019 16:30, Joacim Melin -> Tommi Koivula wrote:

Maybe I should start publishing the magazine at fidonews.mine.nu

or news.fidonet.fi

I think Fidonews should be published whenever there is some actual
content to read, then people would actually read it.

Have you considered submitting an article?

When I have something close to being interesting to anyone to read I will consider it.


--- NiKom v2.5.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:201/120.0)

David Drummond wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Contrast with Fidonet - "Find a regional coordinator, set up your
system with a /9999 address, poll them, and wait an indeterminate
time for instructions..."

Careful, that's a little too clear and concise. I don't think we
should tell a n00b to use /9999, they should have to figure that
out for themselves, like our Grandpas did... :

Could it be that Grandpa managed to read the Fidonet Policy which documented that procedure?

Good point. I know P4 documents that, but the point was that the
instructions could be done much better. Many of the Othernets
"infopacks" are great examples of this. I believe there are some
works in progress on trying that for Fidonet... :)



... Pros are those who do their jobs well, even when they don't feel like it. === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

On 13/03/2019 00:18, Dan Clough -> David Drummond wrote:

Could it be that Grandpa managed to read the Fidonet Policy which
documented that procedure?

Good point. I know P4 documents that, but the point was that the instructions could be done much better. Many of the Othernets
"infopacks" are great examples of this. I believe there are some
works in progress on trying that for Fidonet... :)

There have been "infopacks" published in the past, time and time again. They tend to favour particular software and as that software is "superseded" then the "infopack" becomes obsolete.

Once upon a time Fidonet sysops were "computer enthusiasts". Now they have turned into "point and click"ers.

--

Regards
David

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