• www.fidonet.io

    From Joacim Melin@2:201/120 to All on Saturday, March 09, 2019 23:14:05
    I made an attempt to create a more up to date Fidonet homepage. I actually created this almost a year ago with the intention of replacing the current fidonet.org page but the move of the domain never seems to happen and I got tired of the site just waiting.

    Enjoy and please report any factual errors and/or suggestions.

    Thanks.


    --- NiKom v2.5.0
    * Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:201/120.0)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Joacim Melin on Saturday, March 09, 2019 18:12:10
    On 09 Mar 19 23:14:05, Joacim Melin said the following to All:

    I made an attempt to create a more up to date Fidonet homepage. I actually created this almost a year ago with the intention of replacing the current fidonet.org page but the move of the domain never seems to happen and I got tired of the site just waiting.

    Enjoy and please report any factual errors and/or suggestions.

    While I appreciate the effort, and understand that the current fidonet.org website may be obsolete - There are two big problems I see with this.

    The first problem is that by registering yet another Fidonet domain,
    you have added to the list of totally unnecessary Fidonet domains, each claiming to be the "right place to come to". Fidonet should only have one official page on its official domain - fidonet.org, so newcomers are not confused and Internet SEO is not all over the map with pages of results for Fidonet pages.

    I am privy to the situation behind fidonet.org. I am quite familiar with the frustration over the situation and understand exactly why changing that coveted WWW record in DNS to point to another site is not straightforward, and one aspect of the domain's operation affects Fidonet in Russia. Its not apparent behind the existing crude site but a lot happens behind the scenes.

    Yes... I "Git" how Fidonet works in Zone 2, but lets wait for the knowitalls to chime in telling me how easy it is to fix the domain.

    The second problem is the content on the site itself. You have completely personified and wrote the site as if to represent the opinions and thoughts of everyone in the network with certain language and phrasing you use.

    I know that was likely not your intention but thats how it comes across. And with that sentence, you can apply that objectively to the vast majority of stupid conversations that happen in almost every Echo in Fidonet.

    The Fidonet website cannot be written with any opinion, and this is probably the most difficult challenge of writing the website. It needs to be
    completely simplistic, factual and without opinions/personification added.

    Other suggestions...

    For example. Look at the massive number of edits to the Wikipedia entry for Fidonet. There is *no way* you, me or anyone can sit down and write a website themselves without taking into account:

    - There exists two distribution models, Nab and FidoWeb, each with their own pros and cons. Explain this on the website why the two came to be.

    - There are many Echomail areas dead and empty with the exception of monthly moderator posts. Explain on a website why this is so.

    - Any discussions on policy or Fido workings is most likely to cause flame and troll fests. Explain on a website or to the newcomer why there is FN_SYSOP and FIDO_SYSOP when both accomplish the same thing.

    Again... I appreciate the effort. But I am not happy yet another Fido domain was registered or a website done without all of these considerations. Your site could easily of been put up on some other hostname or domain.

    Also, there exists the echo FIDONET.ORG which is moderated by myself and Ward where we both welcome suggestions and discussions about that domain or making the kinds of improvements you're shooting for.

    End of rant.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Nick Andre on Sunday, March 10, 2019 01:25:30
    The first problem is that by registering yet another Fidonet domain,

    AFAIK, this is supposed to be a temporary domain, awaiting the resolve of the fidonet.org problem -- whatever that may be.

    As far as the fidonet.org problem goes, maybe you can enlighten us in general and Joacim in particular? Who the hell is sitting on this domain and refuses to render it? What does it take to make him give it up?






    ..

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  • From TERRY ROATI@3:640/1321 to Joacim Melin on Sunday, March 10, 2019 12:08:00
    Nice modern update, job well done.

    Links to each Zone / Region / Net would be nice to see however ensuring those links are active would be an issue. Maybe there is a way to show if a link is active or not.

    Many years back I looked after the Fidonet Philippines site which I have revived for Historical purposes only since Zone 6 is gone.

    tfb-bbs.org/public/f-menu.htm

    On Mar 09, 2019 11:14pm, Joacim Melin wrote to All:

    I made an attempt to create a more up to date Fidonet homepage. I
    actually created this almost a year ago with the intention of replacing the current fidonet.org page but the move of the domain never seems to happen and I got tired of the site just waiting.

    Enjoy and please report any factual errors and/or suggestions.

    Thanks.


    --- NiKom v2.5.0
    * Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:201/120.0)

    Kind regards, Terry Roati -tfb-bbs.org

    ... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
    * Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)
  • From Robert Stinnett@1:290/10 to Nick Andre on Saturday, March 09, 2019 22:00:41
    Re: Re: www.fidonet.io
    By: Nick Andre to Joacim Melin on Sat Mar 09 2019 06:12 pm

    While I appreciate the effort, and understand that the current fidonet.org website may be obsolete - There are two big problems I see with this.

    So as a "end user" and newbie to Fidonet, let me add my two cents to this total nonsense.

    All you read about are these rules and procedures, yet it took me over 2 months to track down CURRENT information on Fidonet to try and join. Fidonet.org is a disaster - it is so out of date it is not funny. It has zero relevance to anyone. I tried to use it to join Fido and after 2 months just gave up because NOONE would respond when I could find a link that even worked. I netmailed folks with no respone until the cows came home. I tried to follow links on fidonet.org that took me to spam/dead/out of date pages. It was a complete joke.

    This guy at least tried - and I applaud his efforts. And I say keep it up. Sitting around just complaining about things is getting nothing done. If there was such a big concern about it, then get Fidonet.org updated! Then you can come back and have a real conversation about it.

    I fail to even comprehend how ANYONE thinks Fidonet is going to grow if all that is available is out of date information.


    dmxrob BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (1:290/10)
  • From Robert Stinnett@1:290/10 to Joacim Melin on Saturday, March 09, 2019 22:03:18
    Re: www.fidonet.io
    By: Joacim Melin to All on Sat Mar 09 2019 11:14 pm

    I made an attempt to create a more up to date Fidonet homepage. I actually created this almost a year ago with the intention of replacing the current fidonet.org page but the move of the domain never seems to happen and I got tired of the site just waiting.

    Enjoy and please report any factual errors and/or suggestions.

    AMAZING job and thank you! Keep it up -- we need current, up to date information. I am tired of hearing about why it cannot be done, and I am glad that someone did it!


    dmxrob BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (1:290/10)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Robert Stinnett on Sunday, March 10, 2019 07:30:24
    yet it took me over 2 months
    to track down CURRENT information on Fidonet to try and join.

    Well, don't you think that you should have started with our magazine, the one that is posted each week in this very echo?




    ..

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  • From Joacim Melin@2:201/120 to Bj÷rn Felten on Sunday, March 10, 2019 09:06:48
    The first problem is that by registering yet another Fidonet domain,

    AFAIK, this is supposed to be a temporary domain, awaiting the
    resolve of the fidonet.org problem -- whatever that may be.

    As far as the fidonet.org problem goes, maybe you can enlighten us
    in general and Joacim in particular? Who the hell is sitting on this domain and refuses to render it? What does it take to make him give
    it up?

    Ward is the (unfortunate) owner of the domain and he kindly sent me a netmail explaining the delay. My goal was never to overtake or replace fidonet.org - that domain can easily be redirected to this site or vice-versa, but what prompted me was discussions in another network about how the current fidonet.org was filled with broken/dangerous links and why no-one did nothing about it.


    --- NiKom v2.5.0
    * Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:201/120.0)
  • From Joacim Melin@2:201/120 to Bj÷rn Felten on Sunday, March 10, 2019 09:10:21
    yet it took me over 2 months
    to track down CURRENT information on Fidonet to try and join.

    Well, don't you think that you should have started with our
    magazine, the one that is posted each week in this very echo?

    When I got my nodenumber from you a couple of years ago it took me days to figure out who to contact and how. My goals with fidonet.io was to explain how to make this easier because there is no way in hell a Fidonet novice will understand that he or she should somehow get access to the Fidonews echo and take it from there. It's like the attitude is "If you want it you have to work for it and figure it out yourself" and I find that very unfortunate.


    --- NiKom v2.5.0
    * Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:201/120.0)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to TERRY ROATI on Sunday, March 10, 2019 11:42:58
    Terry,

    Many years back I looked after the Fidonet Philippines site which I have revived for Historical purposes only since Zone 6 is gone.

    If enough nodes would pop-up wonderful things might be possible ...

    Are you the onlyone left or are there other folks hiding in the woodwork ?

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
    * Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Björn Felten on Sunday, March 10, 2019 07:33:00
    Bjrn Felten wrote to Robert Stinnett <=-

    yet it took me over 2 months
    to track down CURRENT information on Fidonet to try and join.

    Well, don't you think that you should have started with our
    magazine, the one that is posted each week in this very echo?

    No. It's obscure and not even REMOTELY obvious to a newcomer that
    they should look in there. Even then, if they did, is there any
    useful information in the magazine that would help a new
    prospective Sysop get a node number?

    NOPE.



    ... Internal Error: The system has been taken over by sheep at line 19960
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    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Joacim Melin on Sunday, March 10, 2019 07:41:00
    Joacim Melin wrote to Bjrn Felten <=-

    When I got my nodenumber from you a couple of years ago it took
    me days to figure out who to contact and how. My goals with
    fidonet.io was to explain how to make this easier because there
    is no way in hell a Fidonet novice will understand that he or she
    should somehow get access to the Fidonews echo and take it from
    there. It's like the attitude is "If you want it you have to work
    for it and figure it out yourself" and I find that very
    unfortunate.

    I agree with this completely. I was a Fidonet sysop back in the
    early 90's, and left in 96 when I had to move and the internet was
    taking over anyway. Recently came back, and although I certainly
    remembered the basics of how Fido works, I had some minor trouble
    contacting my prospective new NC because of simple things like the
    proper addressing syntax of a Netmail. Is it
    "first.last@<address>", or is it "first last@<address>", or.... ?
    Stuff like that could be laid out in an instructional document
    which is made *OBVIOUS* right there on www.fidonet.org under the
    heading of "How to join Fidonet". What's so fuckin hard about
    somebody doing that? Why has that not already been done, YEARS
    ago?

    Is it really any mystery why Fidonet struggles to grow/expand?
    I'm willing to bet there are 2-3 potential sysops who give up for
    every new one that does join. Why can't that be fixed?

    I fully support this new website and screw the ass-draggers who
    want to keep Fidonet back in the 20th century.



    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/6 to Bj÷rn Felten on Sunday, March 10, 2019 15:58:16
    Hi Bjrn.

    10 Mar 19 07:30:24, you wrote to Robert Stinnett:

    yet it took me over 2 months
    to track down CURRENT information on Fidonet to try and join.

    Well, don't you think that you should have started with our magazine, the one that is posted each week in this very echo?

    If someone from the real world wants to find out something about fidonet, what does he do? Look for an echo called fidonews? No, he googles for "fidonet".

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** Finland *** (2:221/6)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Tommi Koivula on Sunday, March 10, 2019 15:14:38
    yet it took me over 2 months


    If someone from the real world wants to find out something about
    fidonet, what does he do? Look for an echo called fidonews? No, he
    googles for "fidonet".

    For more than two months?


    ..

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  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/1 to Björn Felten on Sunday, March 10, 2019 16:29:44
    On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 13:14:38 +0100 Bjrn Felten -> Tommi Koivula :

    yet it took me over 2 months

    If someone from the real world wants to find out something about fidonet, what does he do? Look for an echo called fidonews? No, he googles for "fidonet".

    For more than two months?

    In this case, yes.

    --
    Tommi

    --- Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.30; i686-pc-mingw32)
    * Origin: smapinntpd/linux @ nntps://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/1)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Sunday, March 10, 2019 15:31:56
    No. It's obscure and not even REMOTELY obvious to a newcomer that
    they should look in there.

    On top of the results from Google (for me -- YMMV) is the old, defunct fidonet.org site. Even there it's a link to the likewise defunct fidonews.org site. Doesn't that make you curious if you are really into Fidonet? What better
    place to get information about something than a dedicated magazine?

    Even then, if they did, is there any
    useful information in the magazine that would help a new
    prospective Sysop get a node number?

    Well, maybe you haven't read any recent (as in the latest 500 or so) issue properly? You can for instance try fidonews.eu from where opens up a plethora of fidonet echoes to read before you start asking advice about how to go Full Fidonet Node.

    But rather than complaining, why don't you write an article about it yourself? Don't always expect other people to do things for you...



    ..

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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Björn Felten on Sunday, March 10, 2019 15:26:02
    Hello Bjrn,

    On Sunday March 10 2019 15:14, you wrote to Tommi Koivula:

    yet it took me over 2 months

    If someone from the real world wants to find out something about
    fidonet, what does he do? Look for an echo called fidonews? No,
    he googles for "fidonet".

    For more than two months?

    A lot has changed in Fidonet, but there is one constant factor. We still use a nodelist. So.... If I had been away for no matter how long and wanted to return and needed to find the nearest NC, I would google for "fidonet nodelist".

    Should not take two month...


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sunday, March 10, 2019 16:16:14
    MvdV> We still use a nodelist.

    Amen to that! The glue that keeps our network together.

    Fortunately it seems like the despised Nodelist Police has managed to get at
    least a few coordinators to get their thumbs out of their asses and do what they are supposed to do.

    Maybe we eventually can weed out all the rotten *C plants so that we can have a near perfect nodelist?



    ..

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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sunday, March 10, 2019 16:26:52
    MvdV> If I had been away for no matter how long and wanted to return and
    MvdV> needed to find the nearest NC, I would google for "fidonet nodelist".

    When I first connected my BBS to the BBS-network fidonet in 1989, the first thing I did was downloading the latest nodelist. No Google by then, not even WWW.

    It wasn't until after the download started that I realized that it wasn't 28kB but 280kB. It took 50 minutes to download on a crappy per-minute-cost connection with my non-MNP 2400 modem.

    The new generation don't know how lucky they are... :)



    ..

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  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Dan Clough on Sunday, March 10, 2019 11:23:22
    On 2019 Mar 10 07:41:00, you wrote to Joacim Melin:

    I agree with this completely. I was a Fidonet sysop back in the
    early 90's, and left in 96 when I had to move and the internet was
    taking over anyway. Recently came back, and although I certainly remembered the basics of how Fido works, I had some minor trouble contacting my prospective new NC because of simple things like the
    proper addressing syntax of a Netmail. Is it
    "first.last@<address>", or is it "first last@<address>", or.... ?

    to be fair, this is specifically related to the software being used... most traditional FTN software has separate name and address fields...

    To: some user Addr: 1:0/0

    sometimes that "Addr:" field is not even labeled... it is just another field to
    be filled in manually or automatically after the software has done a nodelist lookup on the name in the "To:" field... it should also be noted that that traditional FTN software only does FTN addressing and doesn't have to parse and
    analyze the target address to determine if it is FTN, email, QWK or some other
    supported-by-that-software private system-to-system mail format...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... I don't like making plans because then the word "premeditated" gets used. ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Björn Felten on Sunday, March 10, 2019 11:17:42
    On 2019 Mar 10 15:14:38, you wrote to Tommi Koivula:

    yet it took me over 2 months


    If someone from the real world wants to find out something about
    fidonet, what does he do? Look for an echo called fidonews? No, he
    googles for "fidonet".

    For more than two months?

    fidonews is the 26th link in a search for "fidonet"... other links higher in the list would seem to be more relevant when one is looking for information on fidonet and how to join...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Check your mind at the door... NONE allowed in this echo! ;*)
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Bj÷rn Felten on Sunday, March 10, 2019 17:16:26
    Hi Bjrn!

    10 Mar 2019 07:30, from Bjrn Felten -> Robert Stinnett:

    yet it took me over 2 months
    to track down CURRENT information on Fidonet to try and join.
    Well, don't you think that you should have started with our
    magazine, the one that is posted each week in this very echo?

    I am not 100% sure ... but I assume that he has only access to this echo AFTER he tracked down somebody that helped him ;)

    CU, Ricsi

    ... There are plenty of ways to enter a pool. The stairs is not one of them. --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: INE Do Not Cross! - TAGLINE Do Not Cross! - TAGL (2:310/31)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Richard Menedetter on Sunday, March 10, 2019 18:25:01
    I assume that he has only access to this echo

    The echo is just an added bonus provided to you by the editor. The actual magazine is distributed as a file by all coordinators that abide to P4.



    ..

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  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/1 to Björn Felten on Sunday, March 10, 2019 20:32:32
    On 10.3.2019 17:25, Bjrn Felten -> Richard Menedetter :

    I assume that he has only access to this echo

    The echo is just an added bonus provided to you by the editor. The
    actual magazine is distributed as a file by all coordinators that
    abide to P4.

    Do you really believe anyone actually reads the file? :-D

    'Tommi

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.
    * Origin: smapinntpd/linux @ nntps://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/1)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Tommi Koivula on Sunday, March 10, 2019 19:50:21
    Do you really believe anyone actually reads the file? :-D

    If not, why do you keep on distributing them?

    But yes, I not only think, but I know that a lot of people read the files.



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  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Björn Felten on Sunday, March 10, 2019 20:54:36
    On 10.3.2019 20:50, Bjrn Felten : Tommi Koivula :

    Do you really believe anyone actually reads the file? :-D

    If not, why do you keep on distributing them?

    But yes, I not only think, but I know that a lot of people read the
    files.

    How do you know?

    Isn't it much easier to read it on the echo?

    'Tommi

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From Robert Stinnett@1:290/10 to Björn Felten on Sunday, March 10, 2019 13:53:29
    Re: www.fidonet.io
    By: Bjrn Felten to Robert Stinnett on Sun Mar 10 2019 07:30 am

    Well, don't you think that you should have started with our magazine, the one that is posted each week in this very echo?

    I'm supposed to have magical powers before I am even a member of Fidonet to find this echo?

    You just don't get it do you? If you aren't Google searchable you don't exist in the modern world. Period. If your information is outdated, leads me to spam pages and dead links you aren't getting 1 character of my information.

    fidonet.org - so outdated it isn't funny, with links to sites that take you to spam pages.

    fidonews.org - Good luck finding the most recent newsletter here! My favorite is how it starts out showing 1999 newsletters. Plenty-o-dead links here too!

    www.z1.fidonet.org - If you are patient, you are starting to get "warm". But wait! The "real" Z1 is apparently fidonet.ca -- Maybe!






    dmxrob BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (1:290/10)
  • From Robert Stinnett@1:290/10 to Joacim Melin on Sunday, March 10, 2019 13:54:36
    Re: Re: www.fidonet.io
    By: Joacim Melin to Bjrn Felten on Sun Mar 10 2019 09:10 am

    When I got my nodenumber from you a couple of years ago it took me days to figure out who to contact and how. My goals with fidonet.io was to explain how to make this easier because there is no way in hell a Fidonet novice will understand that he or she should somehow get access to the Fidonews echo and take it from there. It's like the attitude is "If you want it you have to work for it and figure it out yourself" and I find that very unfortunate.

    Amen brother!


    dmxrob BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (1:290/10)
  • From Robert Stinnett@1:290/10 to Dan Clough on Sunday, March 10, 2019 13:56:32
    Re: Re: www.fidonet.io
    By: Dan Clough to Joacim Melin on Sun Mar 10 2019 07:41 am

    I fully support this new website and screw the ass-draggers who
    want to keep Fidonet back in the 20th century.

    Amen!

    dmxrob BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (1:290/10)
  • From Robert Stinnett@1:290/10 to Björn Felten on Sunday, March 10, 2019 13:59:28
    Re: www.fidonet.io
    By: Bjrn Felten to Dan Clough on Sun Mar 10 2019 03:31 pm

    Well, maybe you haven't read any recent (as in the latest 500 or so) issue properly? You can for instance try fidonews.eu from where opens up a plethora of fidonet echoes to read before you start asking advice about how to go Full Fidonet Node.

    And how in the HELL is someone who is new to Fidonet supposed to know this and find it?

    This isn't 1997 -- it's 2019. I do not have time to spend every waking free moment looking for information in a sea of dead links. Nor do I, or anyone else, have time to go "searching" for an elusive newsletter that might or might not contain information on a website that I don't even know exists.

    dmxrob BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (1:290/10)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Björn Felten on Sunday, March 10, 2019 14:09:00
    Bjrn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    No. It's obscure and not even REMOTELY obvious to a newcomer that
    they should look in there.

    On top of the results from Google (for me -- YMMV) is the old,
    defunct fidonet.org site. Even there it's a link to the likewise
    defunct fidonews.org site. Doesn't that make you curious if you
    are really into Fidonet? What better place to get information
    about something than a dedicated magazine?

    No, it doesn't do that for me. What it does is indicate to me
    that whoever is maintaining the organization (Fidonet) is doing a
    piss-poor job. Dead links and defunct websites would probably
    make most potential new sysops say "screw this, it's unmaintained
    and not worth my time". And if you, in response to that, would
    say something like "Oh well, their loss".... then *YOU* are one of
    the main reasons that Fidonet continues to decline.

    Even then, if they did, is there any
    useful information in the magazine that would help a new
    prospective Sysop get a node number?

    Well, maybe you haven't read any recent (as in the latest 500
    or so) issue properly? You can for instance try fidonews.eu from
    where opens up a plethora of fidonet echoes to read before you
    start asking advice about how to go Full Fidonet Node.

    I've read all recent issues. They are all exactly the same. None
    of them contains *ANY* information on how to apply for a Fidonet
    node number. Just for curiosity, I browsed to fidonews.eu, and
    was presented with a "Login first" page. Most people won't do
    that. Again, my whole point here is that the information needed
    by a prospective new Fidonet member should be *EASY* and *OBVIOUS*
    to obtain. Jumping through hoops makes people not bother.

    But rather than complaining, why don't you write an article
    about it yourself? Don't always expect other people to do things
    for you...

    I may do that, assuming I get some free time in the near future.
    We'll see.



    ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to mark lewis on Sunday, March 10, 2019 14:19:00
    mark lewis wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    I agree with this completely. I was a Fidonet sysop back in the
    early 90's, and left in 96 when I had to move and the internet was
    taking over anyway. Recently came back, and although I certainly remembered the basics of how Fido works, I had some minor trouble contacting my prospective new NC because of simple things like the
    proper addressing syntax of a Netmail. Is it
    "first.last@<address>", or is it "first last@<address>", or.... ?

    to be fair, this is specifically related to the software being
    used... most traditional FTN software has separate name and
    address fields...
    To: some user Addr: 1:0/0

    sometimes that "Addr:" field is not even labeled... it is just
    another field to be filled in manually or automatically after the
    software has done a nodelist lookup on the name in the "To:"
    field... it should also be noted that that traditional FTN
    software only does FTN addressing and doesn't have to parse and
    analyze the target address to determine if it is FTN, email, QWK
    or some other supported-by-that-software private system-to-system
    mail format...

    OK, I get that there is some variation in the mechanics of things.
    I think what I was meaning there above was that there could be a document/instruction that spells that kind of thing out, even give
    examples of how to Netmail your prospective NC with some of the
    more commonly used software. A "How to Join Fidonet" document
    with clear/concise directions, without extra fluff. It could be
    available on any/all FidoNet BBS's, and <GASP> could even be a
    regular feature in the FidoNews magazine!



    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sunday, March 10, 2019 14:24:00
    Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Bjrn Felten <=-

    If someone from the real world wants to find out something about
    fidonet, what does he do? Look for an echo called fidonews? No,
    he googles for "fidonet".

    For more than two months?

    A lot has changed in Fidonet, but there is one constant factor.
    We still use a nodelist. So.... If I had been away for no matter
    how long and wanted to return and needed to find the nearest NC,
    I would google for "fidonet nodelist".

    Should not take two month...

    I don't think the example under discussion was someone who was
    "returning" to Fidonet. It was someone trying to join for the
    first time. Such a person probably doesn't know anything about a
    Nodelist, or what it is, or how it would be useful.

    Even if you did, trying to find a copy of it can be difficult,
    when even the links on fidonet.org that should lead to a nodelist
    are dead.



    ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Robert Stinnett on Sunday, March 10, 2019 20:39:02
    This isn't 1997 -- it's 2019. I do not have time to spend every waking free
    moment looking for information in a sea of dead links. Nor do I, or
    anyone
    else, have time to go "searching" for an elusive newsletter that might
    or might
    not contain information on a website that I don't even know exists.

    Depends of course on how dedicated you are. But still, during more than two months, surely you could end up better than e.g. mailing some dead wood somewhere?

    Needless to say, if you happen to stumble upon the fidonet's dedicated magazine, you should not be more than an email or two away from all the info you need. For you that don't want to "spend every waking free moment".

    Unless of course you expect to have it all served on a silver platter, ready
    to go on an .msi or .msp installer file.



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Sunday, March 10, 2019 20:46:32
    Just for curiosity, I browsed to fidonews.eu, and
    was presented with a "Login first" page. Most people won't do
    that.

    Of course they do not. That's why there is a "Check it out anonymously" link
    at the top left. What most people of yours would not want that, if you are *really* interested in fidonet?



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Joacim Melin@2:201/120 to Robert Stinnett on Sunday, March 10, 2019 21:11:53
    Re: www.fidonet.io
    By: Bjrn Felten to Dan Clough on Sun Mar 10 2019 03:31 pm

    Well, maybe you haven't read any recent (as in the latest 500 or so)
    issue properly? You can for instance try fidonews.eu from where opens up a

    plethora of fidonet echoes to read before you start asking advice about ho
    w
    to go Full Fidonet Node.

    And how in the HELL is someone who is new to Fidonet supposed to know
    this and
    find it?

    This isn't 1997 -- it's 2019. I do not have time to spend every
    waking free
    moment looking for information in a sea of dead links. Nor do I, or anyone
    else, have time to go "searching" for an elusive newsletter that
    might or might
    not contain information on a website that I don't even know exists.

    It's a boys club where the newbies really shouldn't even apply. Compare it to FSXNet where new members get help from other members and the founder of the network, it's all friendly and non of the constant tiresome arguing that's been
    going on here for the last X number of years.

    I had expected some pushback for creating www.fidonet.io and I was prepared for
    it but the discussion, as usual in this and other echos, have taken a turn to absurd and silly by a few of you.

    I tried to help, do some good for the network, and I will continue to do so, with or without your support.


    --- NiKom v2.5.0
    * Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:201/120.0)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Joacim Melin on Sunday, March 10, 2019 15:37:58
    I tried to help, do some good for the network,

    I think you have done so.

    and I will continue to do so, with or without your support.

    You have my support. I know that you and others have been working with a goal of updating the fidonet.org site. I'm hopeful that in time that can be done.

    I don't think the location (fidonet.net, fidonet.org, fidonet.io etc) is as important as getting good and up to date info out there.

    It would be beneficial if the fidonet.org site could be updated but if that can't happen then we just have to move on with something else.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Björn Felten on Sunday, March 10, 2019 17:45:00
    Bjrn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Just for curiosity, I browsed to fidonews.eu, and
    was presented with a "Login first" page. Most people won't do
    that.

    Of course they do not. That's why there is a "Check it out
    anonymously" link at the top left. What most people of yours
    would not want that, if you are *really* interested in fidonet?

    All right, I'll play your little game.

    That link opens up a Usenet client, since it's a "news:<blah>"
    link. In my case, on a Linux box, it opens a client called Knode,
    and there's *NOTHING* there, except a couple of empty folders.
    Nobody would know what to do with that. Hell, I don't even know,
    and I am a regular user of Usenet (with a different client
    application). It would require them to set up your site as a new
    Usenet server.

    So, please explain how that is helpful to a prospective Fidonet
    sysop. The odds of that person knowing how to use/navigate a
    Usenet client is pretty much ZERO. Do you seriously expect them
    to jump through all those hoops?

    Why do you *CHOOSE* to make it such a link? You're not trying to
    make it difficult on purpose, are you?




    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dallas Hinton@1:153/7715 to Dan Clough on Sunday, March 10, 2019 17:26:54
    Hi Dan -- on Mar 10 2019 at 17:45, you wrote:

    That link opens up a Usenet client, since it's a "news:<blah>"

    Since it starts with "www", I opened a browser window and typed "fidonet.io" --
    full page opens with all details as advertised.




    Cheers... Dallas

    --- timEd/NT 1.30+
    * Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, CANADA (1:153/7715)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Monday, March 11, 2019 01:56:48
    The odds of that person knowing how to use/navigate a
    Usenet client is pretty much ZERO. Do you seriously expect them
    to jump through all those hoops?

    Well, I have some 100 registered (and many, many more anonymous ditto) users
    that managed to find the Subscribe button in their news client, so obviously the person you imagine, wanting to take part of Fidonet, is much smarter than you think.



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Dan Clough on Sunday, March 10, 2019 21:25:40
    On 2019 Mar 10 14:19:00, you wrote to me:

    sometimes that "Addr:" field is not even labeled... it is just
    another field to be filled in manually or automatically after the
    software has done a nodelist lookup on the name in the "To:" field...
    it should also be noted that that traditional FTN software only does
    FTN addressing and doesn't have to parse and analyze the target
    address to determine if it is FTN, email, QWK or some other
    supported-by-that-software private system-to-system mail format...

    OK, I get that there is some variation in the mechanics of things.

    yeah, that was my main point... as a seasoned FTNer, i had to learn new methods
    of addressing when looking at and working with other software that does FTN is
    a different manner than traditional FTN does... it was a huge eye opener... an
    eye opener that some other well intentioned FTNers could use...

    I think what I was meaning there above was that there could be a document/instruction that spells that kind of thing out, even give examples of how to Netmail your prospective NC with some of the
    more commonly used software. A "How to Join Fidonet" document
    with clear/concise directions, without extra fluff. It could be
    available on any/all FidoNet BBS's, and <GASP> could even be a
    regular feature in the FidoNews magazine!

    i'm going to try to get my old fidonet related pages back operational with the new server over here... it should be pretty easy but i haven't tried yet... i don't know how they compare with what folks are suggesting, though... i am/was quite happy with them when i developed them but then i got sidetracked with other things and real life... really, the only ones that needed updating would be the links to other zones/regions/nets pages when they change and the IC/ZC and RC lists... i think i had RC lists but maybe not... i certainly remember the joy when i finally got a clickable map working... that was a major PITA to define the "click regions" of the image... especially to do it without expending $$$ for a job that would be done only once or maybe twice...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... God must have loved the poor people, he made so many of them. A. Lincoln ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Joacim Melin on Sunday, March 10, 2019 21:35:42
    On 2019 Mar 10 21:11:52, you wrote to Robert Stinnett:

    I tried to help, do some good for the network, and I will continue to do so, with or without your support.

    ya done good, joacim! you have my support :)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... I prefer my oysters fried. Then I know my oysters died.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Dallas Hinton on Sunday, March 10, 2019 21:39:12
    On 2019 Mar 10 17:26:54, you wrote to Dan Clough:

    That link opens up a Usenet client, since it's a "news:<blah>"

    Since it starts with "www",

    it does? he's talking about the fidonews.eu domain that BF posted... the "check
    it out" link that BF points to is, indeed, a news:// link... specifically news://eljaco.se... the next link is "get your own copy of the server" but there's absolutely no indication what server is being talked about... the 3rd link is to fidonews archives with the latest ones being wwwwaaaaayyyy down at the bottom of the page and having year 119 dates...

    eg:
    FNEWTA10.ZIP 12039 3/11-119 The Fidonews: Vol#36, Issue#10 for Mar. 11, 2019

    in any case, there's no indication at all that fidonews.eu is a frontpage for some news server... we won't even mention that you really end up on fidonews.felten.se instead of fidonews.eu...

    I opened a browser window and typed "fidonet.io" -- full page opens
    with all details as advertised.

    that's the new site that joacim created :)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... I'll be unstoppable when I get started.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to mark lewis on Sunday, March 10, 2019 21:56:00
    mark lewis wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    sometimes that "Addr:" field is not even labeled... it is just
    another field to be filled in manually or automatically after the
    software has done a nodelist lookup on the name in the "To:" field...
    it should also be noted that that traditional FTN software only does
    FTN addressing and doesn't have to parse and analyze the target
    address to determine if it is FTN, email, QWK or some other
    supported-by-that-software private system-to-system mail format...

    OK, I get that there is some variation in the mechanics of things.

    yeah, that was my main point... as a seasoned FTNer, i had to
    learn new methods of addressing when looking at and working with
    other software that does FTN is a different manner than
    traditional FTN does... it was a huge eye opener... an eye opener
    that some other well intentioned FTNers could use...

    Indeed. <grin>

    I think what I was meaning there above was that there could be a document/instruction that spells that kind of thing out, even give examples of how to Netmail your prospective NC with some of the
    more commonly used software. A "How to Join Fidonet" document
    with clear/concise directions, without extra fluff. It could be
    available on any/all FidoNet BBS's, and <GASP> could even be a
    regular feature in the FidoNews magazine!

    i'm going to try to get my old fidonet related pages back
    operational with the new server over here... it should be pretty
    easy but i haven't tried yet... i don't know how they compare
    with what folks are suggesting, though... i am/was quite happy
    with them when i developed them but then i got sidetracked with
    other things and real life... really, the only ones that needed
    updating would be the links to other zones/regions/nets pages
    when they change and the IC/ZC and RC lists... i think i had RC
    lists but maybe not... i certainly remember the joy when i
    finally got a clickable map working... that was a major PITA to
    define the "click regions" of the image... especially to do it
    without expending $$$ for a job that would be done only once or
    maybe twice...

    That would be great. Something to chip away at in your "spare
    time"... Maybe they could become part of the new/improved Fidonet
    website eventually. Appreciate that, and the efforts of everyone
    else who may get involved in this "renovation" project. I'm going
    to try and help also, if I can.

    Maybe we can actually drag, kicking and screaming, the Fidonet
    world into the 21st century!!! :)



    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to mark lewis on Sunday, March 10, 2019 22:15:00
    mark lewis wrote to Joacim Melin <=-

    I tried to help, do some good for the network, and I will continue to do so, with or without your support.

    ya done good, joacim! you have my support :)

    And mine as well.



    ... All the easy problems have been solved.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From TERRY ROATI@3:640/1321 to Ward Dossche on Monday, March 11, 2019 13:37:48
    Hello Ward,

    Only one node active in the Philippines, Eric was around well before I left.

    I am still in touch with most of the Ex-sysops and when I go back later in the year will try to interest some of them. A group of us usually meet up to have lunch or dinner and catch up when I visit.

    We had a very fiendly group of sysops years back and also had a non-profit group called CyberPhil to fund and share the costs, the benefit to users was they got a free email service and address first.last@fidonet.ph when the internet first came out there as ISP costs were quite expensive where as local phone calls were free.

    Cyberphil had around a 100 members who would meet at least once a year to have a social function, play lan games and raise funds. A few of these people later on went to have high positions in the IT industry.

    Those were the days.

    Terry

    On Mar 10, 2019 11:42am, Ward Dossche wrote to TERRY ROATI:

    Terry,

    Many years back I looked after the Fidonet Philippines site which I have TR>> revived for Historical purposes only since Zone 6 is gone.

    If enough nodes would pop-up wonderful things might be possible ...

    Are you the onlyone left or are there other folks hiding in the
    woodwork ?

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
    * Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

    Kind regards, Terry Roati (tfb-bbs.org)

    ... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
    * Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)
  • From TERRY ROATI@3:640/1321 to All on Monday, March 11, 2019 17:42:44
    It was not easy to find the right information to re-join Fidonet after 15+ years, in the end Janis Kracht gave me the Z3 contact details and it went smoothly from there.

    The reason for this is conflicting information on the internet due to dead links, old websites and a lack of updates etc.

    Andre made some very relevenant and pertinent points about this with multiple domains for the same thing, however without knowing the reasons behind the domain issues it is difficult to move forward but due to the time taken this had led to more domains being added for the same thing (frustration).

    For example, my google search (Aus) for 'fidonews" showed a quite a few differnt web site options and the site fidonews.eu was not one of them.

    I think, it is got to the point were most sites are not really offical and
    or updated.

    If there was some sort of agreement (wishful thinking) on a specific sites
    then if all other sites would add links to them this issue would be gone.

    Hopefully this is under discussion aty the higher levels and a solution will soon be found as the present situation is a hinderance to growing Fidonet.

    Terry

    On Mar 10, 2019 03:30pm, Bjrn Felten wrote to Dan Clough:

    No. It's obscure and not even REMOTELY obvious to a newcomer that
    they should look in there.

    On top of the results from Google (for me -- YMMV) is the old,
    defunct fidonet.org site. Even there it's a link to the likewise
    defunct fidonews.org site. Doesn't that make you curious if you are
    really into Fidonet? What better place to get information about
    something than a dedicated magazine?

    Even then, if they did, is there any
    useful information in the magazine that would help a new
    prospective Sysop get a node number?

    Well, maybe you haven't read any recent (as in the latest 500 or so)
    issue properly? You can for instance try fidonews.eu from where
    opens up a plethora of fidonet echoes to read before you start
    asking advice about how to go Full Fidonet Node.

    But rather than complaining, why don't you write an article about it yourself? Don't always expect other people to do things for you...



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125 * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

    Kind regards, Terry Roati (tfb-bbs.org)

    ... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
    * Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Bj÷rn Felten on Monday, March 11, 2019 07:22:00
    Bjrn Felten wrote to Robert Stinnett <=-

    Unless of course you expect to have it all served on a silver
    platter, ready to go on an .msi or .msp installer file.

    Maybe you should try joining an othernet and see how the experience could
    be.




    ... What do you think management's real interests are?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Robert Stinnett@1:290/10 to Björn Felten on Monday, March 11, 2019 12:21:47
    Re: www.fidonet.io
    By: Bjrn Felten to Robert Stinnett on Sun Mar 10 2019 08:39 pm

    Unless of course you expect to have it all served on a silver platter, ready
    to go on an .msi or .msp installer file.

    Whatever dude. You live in your dream land. The rest of us are passing you by and leaving you in the dust.


    dmxrob BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (1:290/10)
  • From Dallas Hinton@1:153/7715 to mark lewis on Monday, March 11, 2019 18:02:47
    Hi mark -- on Mar 10 2019 at 21:39, you wrote:

    I opened a browser window and typed "fidonet.io" -- full page opens
    with all details as advertised.

    that's the new site that joacim created :)

    ahh.

    Cheers... Dallas

    --- timEd/NT 1.30+
    * Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, CANADA (1:153/7715)
  • From nathanael culver@3:712/886 to Björn Felten on Wednesday, March 13, 2019 14:48:42
    Unless of course you expect to have it all served on a silver
    platter, ready to go on an .msi or .msp installer file.

    And ... uh ... why not? Download, run the installer, enter your node info and everything comes up working. I fail to see how that would be a bad thing.

    ķ ķ ķ
    *HUMONGOUS* BBS nathanael : jenandcal.familyds.org:2323
    Ľ Ľ Ľ

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A42 2018/12/27 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (3:712/886)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to nathanael culver on Wednesday, March 13, 2019 08:02:42
    And ... uh ... why not? Download, run the installer, enter your node
    info and
    everything comes up working. I fail to see how that would be a bad thing.

    It's not. Not at all. But we are discussing how to make the new generations to discover fidonet. And what I claim is that we don't have to make them download and install old MS-DOS programs and make their phone lines open to the
    world.

    All they need to do, if the bulletins are what they want, is to *CLICK* on (and yes, if you are using a modern FTN editor, you can click on a link) e.g. the link in my origin line.



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From nathanael culver@3:712/886 to Joacim Melin on Wednesday, March 13, 2019 15:04:07
    I tried to help, do some good for the network, and I will continue to do so, with or without your support.

    This! I am brand spanking new to Fidonet, and I gotta concur fidonet.org is a disaster. Nothing screams "Fidonet is dead!" louder than a webpage dated 2003 full of dead links. And I love the "historical fidonet.fidonet.org web site sn an history of FidoNet (1992)" link. Now surely THAT doesn't say, "We're living in the past."

    And that "About Joining Fidonet" page is clear: "You wanna join Fidonet? We'd rather you just go away, but if you insist go chase down this, search for that, and try not to bother us too much, 'K?"

    ķ ķ ķ
    *HUMONGOUS* BBS nathanael : jenandcal.familyds.org:2323
    Ľ Ľ Ľ

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A42 2018/12/27 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (3:712/886)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to nathanael culver on Wednesday, March 13, 2019 08:37:38
    And that "About Joining Fidonet" page is clear: "You wanna join Fidonet? We'd
    rather you just go away, but if you insist go chase down this, search
    for that,
    and try not to bother us too much, 'K?"

    Yes Nathanael, that is a total disaster!

    The simple fact, that it is so easy to join fidonet when it comes to the original idea, the bulletins, is even to someone that's been connected to the fidonet BBS network for more than three decades like me, totally incomprehensible.

    Alas, we have all those self-appointed powers that will struggle to their death before they give up their private little fiefdoms. But the more bulletin users we can attract, the sooner we can make fidonet great again. At least that's what I believe.


    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From nathanael culver@3:712/886 to Björn Felten on Wednesday, March 13, 2019 16:02:35
    All they need to do, if the bulletins are what they want, is to
    *CLICK* on (and yes, if you are using a modern FTN editor, you can click on a link) e.g. the link in my origin line.

    They don't want bulletins, they want to join Fidonet. And don't you already have to be connected to Fidonet to see your origin line? I think that's part
    of the point the others are making here: you have a totally different prospective audience in mind.

    For you it's folks already familiar with the BBS scene and have a working acquaintance with its vocabulary and technology. For them it's people who
    have heard of FidoNet, but maybe not a BBS, and have no familiarity with the BBS scene.

    I know you keep insisting FidoNet is and always has been a BBS network, but "because the Policy says so," is not a good argument.

    ķ ķ ķ
    *HUMONGOUS* BBS nathanael : jenandcal.familyds.org:2323
    Ľ Ľ Ľ

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A42 2018/12/27 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (3:712/886)
  • From nathanael culver@3:712/886 to Björn Felten on Wednesday, March 13, 2019 16:03:24
    It's not. Not at all. But we are discussing how to make the new generations to discover fidonet.

    And a one-click install and setup process would go a long way toward facilitating that.

    ķ ķ ķ
    *HUMONGOUS* BBS nathanael : jenandcal.familyds.org:2323
    Ľ Ľ Ľ

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A42 2018/12/27 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (3:712/886)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to nathanael culver on Wednesday, March 13, 2019 09:21:33
    They don't want bulletins, they want to join Fidonet.

    Why? If not for the bulletins, then what?

    The file areas? http://eljaco.se/FILES/

    On line games? How can ANSI-only games compete with WoW and other modern games?

    Nah, I think that you and several others are on a dead end if you try to attract new users to fidonet with 30yo BBS programs. Sorry...




    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From nathanael culver@3:712/886 to Björn Felten on Wednesday, March 13, 2019 17:49:13
    Nah, I think that you and several others are on a dead end if you try to attract new users to fidonet with 30yo BBS programs. Sorry...

    Huh? I'm a new fidonet user.

    ķ ķ ķ
    *HUMONGOUS* BBS nathanael : jenandcal.familyds.org:2323
    Ľ Ľ Ľ

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (3:712/886)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to nathanael culver on Wednesday, March 13, 2019 07:54:00
    nathanael culver wrote to Bjrn Felten <=-

    Unless of course you expect to have it all served on a silver
    platter, ready to go on an .msi or .msp installer file.

    And ... uh ... why not? Download, run the installer, enter your
    node info and everything comes up working. I fail to see how that
    would be a bad thing.

    It isn't a bad thing. It's just that Beorn wouldn't feel like he
    had any control over that, and therefore is against it. He's also
    against any kind of changes to Fidonet, preferring to keep it in a
    depressed state instead of promoting it's growth. Why? I'm not
    real sure, other than he's a bitter old has-been with no actual
    power to control anything, but can't admit that.

    Ignore him and let's keep moving Fidonet forward.



    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Björn Felten on Wednesday, March 13, 2019 07:58:00
    Bjrn Felten wrote to nathanael culver <=-

    They don't want bulletins, they want to join Fidonet.

    Why? If not for the bulletins, then what?

    The file areas? http://eljaco.se/FILES/

    On line games? How can ANSI-only games compete with WoW and
    other modern games?

    Nah, I think that you and several others are on a dead end if
    you try to attract new users to fidonet with 30yo BBS programs.
    Sorry...

    Will you please moderate yourself, and shut up and go away?

    You're babbling incoherently, and don't even realize it.

    Face it: change is coming regardless of what you think or want.



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Wednesday, March 13, 2019 16:14:23
    It isn't a bad thing. It's just that Beorn wouldn't feel like he
    had any control over that, and therefore is against it. ...

    At some point in time while you were absent, we started to try not to insult people ...

    Give it a try ... not a bad thing,

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
    * Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)
  • From Robert Stinnett@1:290/10 to nathanael culver on Wednesday, March 13, 2019 11:39:22
    Re: Re: www.fidonet.io
    By: nathanael culver to Bjrn Felten on Wed Mar 13 2019 05:49 pm

    Nah, I think that you and several others are on a dead end if you try to attract new users to fidonet with 30yo BBS programs. Sorry...

    Huh? I'm a new fidonet user.

    Ignore him. The rest of us do.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (1:290/10)
  • From Robert Stinnett@1:290/10 to Dan Clough on Wednesday, March 13, 2019 11:40:34
    Re: Re: www.fidonet.io
    By: Dan Clough to nathanael culver on Wed Mar 13 2019 07:54 am

    Ignore him and let's keep moving Fidonet forward.


    Aye-aye, captain!

    Let's go!
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (1:290/10)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to nathanael culver on Wednesday, March 13, 2019 08:52:00
    Nathaniel,

    I responded to your message in the fidonet.org echo - we should move web
    site discussions there.

    Thanks for sharing,

    Kurt



    ... Would you like to wake up from this dream?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Bj÷rn Felten on Wednesday, March 13, 2019 09:07:00
    Bjrn Felten wrote to nathanael culver <=-

    Nah, I think that you and several others are on a dead end if you
    try to attract new users to fidonet with 30yo BBS programs. Sorry...

    Bjrn,

    Please download a telnettable BBS list and check out some of the Mystic and Synchronet boards out there. Some of the ANSI art and the customizations
    people have done recently is incredible. Mystic's MRC and Synchronet's IRC
    chat are adding a real-time element to the mix, and many BBSes have a HTML telnet client to let people log on from a web page, as well as (finally!) having a usable web message forum built-in to the BBS.

    There are 30 year-old BBS packages running out there, and I appreciate the effort and nostalgia in logging into an Iniquity, Searchlight or Telegard
    BBS - but I don't think those would be the first BBSes a new user would run into.




    ... Do you ever wish you could forget?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to BJƒRN FELTEN on Wednesday, March 13, 2019 16:22:18
    And that "About Joining Fidonet" page is clear: "You wanna join
    Fidonet?
    We'd
    rather you just go away, but if you insist go chase down this, search for that,
    and try not to bother us too much, 'K?"

    Yes Nathanael, that is a total disaster!

    15 years ago when I set up my BBS (which was formerly a point) I had the
    only system in what used to be Net 285 (Omaha NE area), but there were
    probably 20 systems still listed in the nodelist. I think what happened
    in that case is that the NC dropped out of Fidonet and didn't bother to
    find someone else to take over or tell anybody upstream
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
    * Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Thursday, March 14, 2019 16:03:00
    Hello Bjrn,

    And that "About Joining Fidonet" page is clear: "You wanna join Fidonet?
    We'd
    rather you just go away, but if you insist go chase down this, search
    for that,
    and try not to bother us too much, 'K?"

    Yes Nathanael, that is a total disaster!

    Is there anything that can be done about it?

    The simple fact, that it is so easy to join fidonet when it comes to the original idea, the bulletins, is even to someone that's been connected to the fidonet BBS network for more than three decades like me, totally incomprehensible.

    True enough. But, the question remains, does it have to be this way?
    Or remain this way?

    Alas, we have all those self-appointed powers that will struggle to their death before they give up their private little fiefdoms. But the more bulletin users we can attract, the sooner we can make fidonet great again. At least that's what I believe.

    Then, the answer has been in front of us all along! How could we
    have all overlooked this? Well, maybe not all of us. But a good many.
    And to think, this is the 21st century, with newer and better ways of connecting! Rather than using archaic technology of 30 years ago,
    we are free to use other means of doing the same thing!

    The "How to connect to Fidonet" has been solved!
    The "How to become a sysop" has also been solved!

    With no "self-appointed powers that be" necessary to tell us
    how or what to do! Ah, the wonders of the bulletins!

    MFGA - Make Fidonet Great Again

    Should I wear a red hat, or a blue one?

    --Lee

    --
    Everybody Loves Our Buns

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Thursday, March 14, 2019 16:03:15
    Hello Bjrn,

    They don't want bulletins, they want to join Fidonet.

    Why? If not for the bulletins, then what?

    To scratch their ass?

    The file areas? http://eljaco.se/FILES/

    Especially oldies (but goodies) that can be found nowhere else.

    On line games? How can ANSI-only games compete with WoW and other modern games?

    You would be surprised.

    Nah, I think that you and several others are on a dead end if you try to attract new users to fidonet with 30yo BBS programs. Sorry...

    Actually, there are quite a few gamers out there. Most of them kids
    who much prefer the kinds of games that only youngsters love. But
    there are also older kids who love the ancient games we all so dearly
    loved when we were young ...

    --Lee

    --
    I Take A Sheet In The Pool

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to nathanael culver on Thursday, March 14, 2019 16:03:20
    Hello Nathanael,

    All they need to do, if the bulletins are what they want, is to
    *CLICK* on (and yes, if you are using a modern FTN editor, you can
    click
    on a link) e.g. the link in my origin line.

    They don't want bulletins, they want to join Fidonet.

    For whatever reasons of their own. Could be just for bulletins.
    Could also be for no other reason than to see if they could do it.
    Or maybe even for no reason at all.

    And don't you already have to be connected to Fidonet to see your origin line?

    No.

    I think that's part of the point the others are making here: you have a totally different prospective audience in mind.

    Not all participants are sysops. But those who aren't can be
    regarded as probationary sysops, or prospective sysops.

    For you it's folks already familiar with the BBS scene and have a working acquaintance with its vocabulary and technology. For them it's people who have heard of FidoNet, but maybe not a BBS, and have no familiarity with the BBS scene.

    Some do. But others are nothing more than "glorified points",
    not really having had the experience of being part of a BBS, which
    is really a type of community, not just technology.

    I know you keep insisting FidoNet is and always has been a BBS network,
    but
    "because the Policy says so," is not a good argument.

    Even though it is, and always has been, a BBS network.
    Independent on whatever the fuck any "policy" says or declares.

    A free association of sysops from around the world. That is
    what Fidonet is, and always has been. A community of real people
    sharing something they all love.

    --Lee

    --
    Stop Workin', Start Jerkin'

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to BOB ACKLEY on Thursday, March 14, 2019 16:03:32
    Hello Bob,

    And that "About Joining Fidonet" page is clear: "You wanna join
    Fidonet?
    We'd
    rather you just go away, but if you insist go chase down this, search
    for that,
    and try not to bother us too much, 'K?"

    Yes Nathanael, that is a total disaster!

    15 years ago when I set up my BBS (which was formerly a point) I had the only system in what used to be Net 285 (Omaha NE area), but there were probably 20 systems still listed in the nodelist. I think what happened in that case is that the NC dropped out of Fidonet and didn't bother to find someone else to take over or tell anybody upstream

    His next of kin should have taken care of all the arrangements.
    But apparently, they missed the details ...

    --Lee

    --
    Stop Workin', Start Jerkin'

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Bjrn Felten@2:203/2 to Lee Lofaso on Thursday, March 14, 2019 18:21:31
    On line games? How can ANSI-only games compete with WoW and other modern
    games?

    You would be surprised.

    Quite possibly.

    Back then, before the WWW, it *was* popular to play on-line games at you local BBS. There simply was no alternative.

    What many of us BBS operators by then took pride in, was to only have games that you had written yourself.

    My most popular, home-made game was MasterMind. It became so popular that I decided to make it my first (and only) shareware program:

    http://eljaco.se/FILES/DEV/MASTER.ZIP

    With almost a thousand active BBSs in Sweden by then, I choose to only attract Swedish BBSs -- that's why the register info is in Swedish only. To my big surprise I got more than 50 registrations -- earning me the equivalent of some EUR250.

    Of course it took me several hours to write the program at a time when I charged EUR100/hour at my day-time job, so I obviously didn't do it for the money. 8-)



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Dan Clough on Friday, March 15, 2019 07:40:28
    On 13/03/2019 23:58, 1:123/115 wrote:

    They don't want bulletins, they want to join Fidonet.

    Why? If not for the bulletins, then what?

    The file areas? http://eljaco.se/FILES/

    On line games? How can ANSI-only games compete with WoW and
    other modern games?

    Nah, I think that you and several others are on a dead end if
    you try to attract new users to fidonet with 30yo BBS programs.
    Sorry...

    Will you please moderate yourself, and shut up and go away?

    You're babbling incoherently, and don't even realize it.

    Or could it be your understanding skills.

    While I do not speak/read Swedish I have no issues understanding what Bjrn is saying/writing.


    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From nathanael culver@3:712/886 to Lee Lofaso on Friday, March 15, 2019 07:28:28
    Even though it is, and always has been, a BBS network.

    Only by historical accident, or necessity, if you will. Fidonet is a
    messaging network that for historical reasons has always been carried on
    BBSes, But it is neither conceptually nor technologically tied to BBSes, except by choice.

    ķ ķ ķ
    *HUMONGOUS* BBS nathanael : jenandcal.familyds.org:2323
    Ľ Ľ Ľ

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (3:712/886)