That's why I ignore anything that he says. His input is irrelevant
to me.
So you take part of a fidonet echo where you ignore anything that the moderator has to say?
what moderator? there hasn't been a moderator hat worn in this echo is decades...
NU NNU DRYGARE.
Our nodelist -- even in the miserable state that it partially is
today, with nodelist clerks that does not know shit about how to
maintain it -- still is the glue that keep our network together.
Well, that's a pretty damning indictment: "the glue that keeps our network together is in a miserable state."
Damn right you are, Nathanael from down under!
Imagine a site which automatically redirected you based on IP?
In fact, I'm in Taiwan.
There is. Just click on my origin and you're just a few hours away
from all the info you'll want.
Fidonet information, if you are up to it. Please!
Трахни всех вас, американские ублюдки
"Fuck you all American bastards"
Maybe you should take a break from fidonet...
Sorry, I didn't even know what it meant, I don't speak Russian. I just copied it from another echo. My sincere apologies to all my US friends for what someone other wrote.
Трахни всех вас, американские ублюдки
"Fuck you all American bastards"
Maybe you should take a break from fidonet...
need"Skriven av Bj?Felten (2:203/2.0)"
Many systems, and most of all single points, sadly enough still don't know how to handle UTF-8 that gives our Russian friends the possibility to communicate with us in their own language.
Let's try again. If you still get only question marks, you are in dire
of upgrading your FTN editor:
Трахни всех вас, американские ублюдки
Using news://eljaco.se/FIDONEWS usually will show the above properly, completely automatically, without the need to even search for a dedicated FTN editor -- your standard email client will handle it for you.
NU ÄNNU DRYGARE.
In case you missed it, and you probably cannot translate it properly,
this is an insult that I never saw coming, and I have no idea what caused
it.
What about your anti-American slam you posted the other day? Or have you conveniently forgotten about that?
NU NNU DRYGARE.
In case you missed it, and you probably cannot translate it properly, this is an insult that I never saw coming, and I have no idea what caused it.
Bjrn Felten wrote to Joacim Melin <=-
Joacim Melin -> Bj?Felten skrev 2019-03-12 21:20:
NU NNU DRYGARE.
In case you missed it, and you probably cannot translate it
properly, this is an insult that I never saw coming, and I have no idea what caused it.
nathanael culver wrote to Bjrn Felten <=-
Well, that's a pretty damning indictment: "the glue that keeps our
network together is in a miserable state."
Bjrn Felten wrote to nathanael culver <=-
Well, that's a pretty damning indictment: "the glue that keeps our network together is in a miserable state."
Damn right you are, Nathanael from down under!
We have a few sysops that actually cares about the glue. Even when
they are dismissed and sometimes even insulted, by the badly performing coordinators, they keep on pursuing their quest.
Kudos to our "Nodelist Police", and may you never give in to the insults you are receiving! <3
Damn right you are, Nathanael from down under!
In fact, I'm in Taiwan. Which is illustrative of the problem. Zone 6 is no more (so I was dumped into Zone 3) but you wouldn't know that from
scouring fidonet.org, which seems to think only Zone 1 exists (which brings up the larger question: what's the point of zones any more?)
are still in the nodelist. As this is a volunteer effort on the part of the coordinators some latitude should be granted. I've seen some people
on the planet there really isn't any point in having regions, either. It was a much different story when everything was POTS (Plain Old Telephone
Since anybody can use the Internet to connect to any system
on the planet there really isn't any point in having regions, either. It
was a much different story when everything was POTS (Plain Old Telephone System)
* Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)
On 03-14-19 11:11, nathanael culver wrote to BOB ACKLEY <=-
on the planet there really isn't any point in having regions, either. It was a much different story when everything was POTS (Plain Old Telephone
Sure. Zones and regions were born in a day when it was important to
limit long distance phone costs and try to coordinate Mail Hours. The internet has obsoleted the necessity of all that. Case in point is me:
I am in Taiwan, which used to be Zone 6, but my NC is in southern Australia.
modern networks like FSXnet don't use geographic structures at all in their addressing.
toThat's why I ignore anything that he says. His input is irrelevant tome.
So you take part of a fidonet echo where you ignore anything that the moderator has to say?
Well, now we know how the new fidonet generation acts. Do we really want
attract this kind of users?
Good luck to you Joacim with your .io vs. .org project. You seem to have a steep uphill to climb. :(
Good luck to you Joacim with your .io vs. .org project. You
seem to have a steep uphill to climb. :(
It won't be nearly so steep once the deadwood is cleared from the
road.
youwhat moderator? there hasn't been a moderator hat worn in this echo is
decades...
Thank you. That's the most perfect credential a moderator can have, and
don't even realize it? We work behind the scenes...
Трахни всех вас, американские ублюдки
Hey! You cannot say that!
Of course I can! I can say anything, especially when our US brethren don't know how to decipher it (unless they have a Finnish mole). 8-)
++#++++++|++++ +++#+++++ +#++++ +#+#+, +#++++++++|+#++++|++++
"Fuck you all American bastards"
Maybe you should take a break from fidonet...
That's why I ignore anything that he says. His input is irrelevant to me. He's part of the old, dying breed that is trying to hold on to whatever little scrap of pretend power he may have.
areWell, that's a pretty damning indictment: "the glue that keeps our
network together is in a miserable state."
Damn right you are, Nathanael from down under!
We have a few sysops that actually cares about the glue. Even when they
dismissed and sometimes even insulted, by the badly performing coordinators, they keep on pursuing their quest.you
Kudos to our "Nodelist Police", and may you never give in to the insults
are receiving! <3
Our nodelist -- even in the miserable state that it partially is
today, with nodelist clerks that does not know shit about how to
maintain it -- still is the glue that keep our network together.
Well, that's a pretty damning indictment: "the glue that keeps our network together is in a miserable state."
Damn right you are, Nathanael from down under!
In fact, I'm in Taiwan. Which is illustrative of the problem. Zone 6 is no
more (so I was dumped into Zone 3) but you wouldn't know that from
scouring fidonet.org, which seems to think only Zone 1 exists (which
brings
up the larger question: what's the point of zones any more?)
Years ago a fellow in North Carolina ran a network that had points all over the planet. His RC eventually threw him out of Fidonet because many if not most of his downlinks were out of his region (I think the one in Saudi Arabia was the one that set him off). I was one of those
downlinks. Since anybody can use the Internet to connect to any system
on the planet there really isn't any point in having regions, either. It was a much different story when everything was POTS (Plain Old Telephone System)
Tony Langdon wrote to nathanael culver <=-
Yes. ZMH was totally necessary before the advent of CM systems, which freed BBSs from being restricted to ZMH only mail exchanges. And the geographic structure is due to phone charges, which are no longer relevant. Today, the network doesn't care where BBSs are, and more
modern networks like FSXnet don't use geographic structures at all in their addressing.
That will take you a while. I would say might, but the
reality is it will.
Re: Fidonet information
By: Tommi Koivula to Bjrn Felten on Tue Mar 12 2019 09:03 pm
On 12.3.2019 18:48, Bj+rn Felten wrote:
у#+ю+|и++ Тр#хни #сех ##с, #+ери|#нс|ие
"Fuck you all American bastards"
Maybe you should take a break from fidonet...
That's why I ignore anything that he says. His input is irrelevant to me. He's part of the old, dying breed that is trying to hold on to whatever little scrap of pretend power he may have.
Трахни всех вас, американские ублюдки
Hey! You cannot say that!
Of course I can! I can say anything, especially when our US brethren don't know how to decipher it (unless they have a Finnish mole). 8-)
Bjrn Felten wrote to Robert Stinnett <=-
Good luck to you Joacim with your .io vs. .org project. You
seem to have a steep uphill to climb. :(
It won't be nearly so steep once the deadwood is cleared from the
road.
Damn right you are, Nathanael from down under!
In fact, I'm in Taiwan. Which is illustrative of the problem. Zone 6 is no more (so I was dumped into Zone 3)
NU NNU DRYGARE.
In case you missed it, and you probably cannot translate it properly,
this is an insult that I never saw coming, and I have no idea what caused
it.
What about your anti-American slam you posted the other day?
Or at least a few words in Russian. Such as the words you quoted. However, do realize our Russian friends were quoting Venezuelan
dictator Nicolás Maduro, translating what he said into Russian.
modern networks like FSXnet don't use geographic structures at all in their addressing.
FSXnet uses the same ##:##/## structure and still calls them zones and nodes, they just, I believe, don't assign them geographically. I'm 21:4/123 in Taiwan while my feed is 21:4/100 in the US.
Why were you "dumped" in zone 3 rather than "placed" in zone 3. What is
We don't even need zones any more, when you look at the size of the
nodelist compared to days of old. Imagine that?
We'd still find lines to divide us. Pity.
Of interest to me are Tom Jennings comments about the use of different zones in the BBS Documentary. He spoke of his regret for their creation
Paul Hayton wrote to nathanael culver <=-
On 14 Mar 2019 at 10:18p, nathanael culver pondered and said...
modern networks like FSXnet don't use geographic structures at all in their addressing.
FSXnet uses the same ##:##/## structure and still calls them zones and nodes, they just, I believe, don't assign them geographically. I'm 21:4/123 in Taiwan while my feed is 21:4/100 in the US.
Correct, the use of zone:net/node is really down to using current
FTN address technologies, nothing more. Multiple zones are not
needed at present and as you mention addresses used in fsxNet are
not predicated by geographic region etc.
David Drummond wrote to nathanael culver <=-
In fact, I'm in Taiwan. Which is illustrative of the problem. Zone 6 is no more (so I was dumped into Zone 3)
Why were you "dumped" in zone 3 rather than "placed" in zone 3.
What is it about zone 3 that constitutes "dumped"?
I've been here for over 3 decades and I've not perceived it to be
a dump.
We don't even need zones any moreTechnically, a zone *is* required.
On 03-14-19 22:18, nathanael culver wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
modern networks like FSXnet don't use geographic structures at all in their addressing.
FSXnet uses the same ##:##/## structure and still calls them zones and nodes, they just, I believe, don't assign them geographically. I'm 21:4/123 in Taiwan while my feed is 21:4/100 in the US.
On 03-14-19 08:31, Kurt Weiske wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
Tony Langdon wrote to nathanael culver <=-
Yes. ZMH was totally necessary before the advent of CM systems, which freed BBSs from being restricted to ZMH only mail exchanges. And the geographic structure is due to phone charges, which are no longer relevant. Today, the network doesn't care where BBSs are, and more
modern networks like FSXnet don't use geographic structures at all in their addressing.
We don't even need zones any more, when you look at the size of the nodelist compared to days of old. Imagine that?
On 03-15-19 07:37, David Drummond wrote to nathanael culver <=-
I've been here for over 3 decades and I've not perceived it to be a
dump.
On 03-15-19 08:10, nathanael culver wrote to Paul Hayton <=-
Of interest to me are Tom Jennings comments about the use of different zones in the BBS Documentary. He spoke of his regret for their creation
I've had that queued up for viewing for about five years now. [Note to self: watch it tonight.]
Well worth it! I bought the DVDs when it first came out. Figured for
us old time BBS junkies, they'd be collectors items. :)
On 03-15-19 10:21, nathanael culver wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
Well worth it! I bought the DVDs when it first came out. Figured for
us old time BBS junkies, they'd be collectors items. :)
What? The DVDs? Well, you can download the whole thing from various
sites on the Internet. IIR, I've even seen it up on Youtube.
I don't even own a DVD player anymore. When we relocated to Taiwan from Shanghai, I picked up a BlueRay player 'cause they had just gotten
cheap, hooked it up to my 55" plasma TV, and it sat there for over five years. Literally never used it even once. Finally, I unplugged it and stuffed it somewhere I've since forgotten.
Everything these days is streaming -- Youtube, Netflix -- hell, we
dropped cable a decade ago and haven't missed it a bit.
True, but that's not the same. :)
On 03-15-19 13:53, nathanael culver wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
True, but that's not the same. :)
Yeah, I know you're joking, but in seriousness, it's better. Netflix streams in 4K and is controllable via remote, so the only DVD player feature it lacks is the oh-so-cool flashing neon "12:00".
Netflix is better because it comes with thousands of movies and TV
shows, and you don't have to get up and change the disc ;)
Sure, sometimes streaming doesn't work so well while roaming, but how
many cellphones these days pack a built-in DVD player? Even poor
streaming service is better than none at all.
I simply state that becoming a member of Fidonet before I launched the
site is not easy - it is damn near impossible unless you know where to
look
And yet Michiel van der Vlist has already stated the obvious.
Our nodelist -- even in the miserable state that it partially is today,with
nodelist clerks that does not know shit about how to maintain it -- still is the glue that keep our network together.
As I've already told y'all, when first I tried to connect my BBS, one ofthe
oldest, still working BBSs in the world, to the fidonet BBS network, itwas
the nodelist that worked for me. And for all the other hundreds of Swedish BBS-sysops by then as well.
It was not something I Googled for. Google wasn't even a twinkle in Larry Page's or Sergey Brin's eye by then. Even the world wide web was fiveyears
ahead of time. We all got our information on the BBSs we attended. And it worked.
Now that almost everyone frowns on the BBS concept, and rather want tohave
every former BBS user have his or her own nodelist entry, I can only take pity in the obvious fidonet decline that will follow, once we've abandoned our old common goal.
R.I.P Fidonet,
The internet gimme, gimme and fuck lemme, lemme generation killed you.
I'mWhen I have something close to being interesting to anyone to read I
will consider it.
Don't you think that e.g. information about your struggle to make
fidonet.org working once again would be interesting enough to make it
above a pissing contest in an obscure fidonet echo like this one?
Kudos for your .io attempt Joacim, but it seems like there's a lot
of information, other than what is slowly leaking out in the
FIDONET.ORG echo, that would be valuable to "concerned fidonet
participants".
That is, of course, those that are concerned enough to read our
common news outlet...
1. Maybe, but it may involve person or persons that may be called out and I'm not in favor of that since I now know the background of that delay.
not involved in a pissing contest - I simply state that becoming a member of Fidonet before I launched the site is not easy - it is damn near impossible unless you know where to look and I want to help people find where to look to find that information and get connected. My site needs more work, agreed, and I've gotten lots of great feedback that I will attend to this coming weekend.
2. Pointing to the Fidoweb, or your nntp server, or whatever is goodenough
but HOW TO PEOPLE FIND IT? Many of you who have been engaged in Fidonet for years and years probably have forgotten how you even got connected and even if you do remember that information is basically worthless todaysince
Fidonet is not what is was 10 years ago, or 20 for that matter.
This is what I want to accomplish - easy to access information, writtenfor
humans, that enables people to get connected to Fidonet if they want to.I
think this is a simple and good goal and I cannot see that anyone would object to that goal unless you want to keep Fidonet as your private club where some of you bitch and moan about the same things over and over again year after year.
giveThe BBS scene finally gets a "breath of fresh life" in it and the first
words
out of the old-time "this is the way it was in 1997" crowd is lets make
it even
harder!
Tell you what, one of the big things that happened to the fidonet community, was the emergence of our Russian friends. Not only did they
us the binkp, that revolutionized the entire connection way we now connect to each others.
It also gave us the opportunity to say what they wanted to say to us without being held back to the US ASCII only alphabet, such as:
Трахни всех вас, американские ублюдки
Hopefully the new lifeblood that has recently arisen in this and other
networks
will once and for all put the final nail in the coffin of this good old
boys
club.
Good luck with that.
Oh, by the way, you may want to look out for an FTN editor that can do flowed format. That way comments will not look as ugly as the one above.
We've come a long way since *your* boys club emerged; just saying...
Now that almost everyone frowns on the BBS concept, and rather want to
have every former BBS user have his or her own nodelist entry, I can only
take pity in the obvious fidonet decline that will follow, once we've
abandoned our old common goal.
What a load of garbage.
The BBS scene finally gets a "breath of fresh life" in it and the first words
out of the old-time "this is the way it was in 1997" crowd is lets make it even harder!
Fidonet decline? What rock are you under? It's already declined! If it declines any more it will be dead!
At least there are a new/returning SYSOPS who are trying and want to get involved.
Yet all I see is every move they make the old guard gang is trying to undermine them, ridicule them, make it difficult, anything they can tohold
on to those last bits of perceived power they have in keeping this network a good old boys club.
Hopefully the new lifeblood that has recently arisen in this and other networks will once and for all put the final nail in the coffin of this good old boys club.
Just like in the real world -- kicking or screaming, change is coming. Either be a part of it, or be run over by it.
That's why I ignore anything that he says. His input is irrelevant
to me.
So you take part of a fidonet echo where you ignore anything that the
moderator has to say?
what moderator? there hasn't been a moderator hat worn in this echo is decades...
what moderator? there hasn't been a moderator hat worn in this echo is
decades...
Gee, what a great compliment for the Fidonews editor!
Not just this one, but also those before him.
Thank you, Bjrn! Thank you, Frank! Thank you ...
Haha well 4k isn't exactly useful here ATM, need a new TV. And we have
Maybe in the US. Australian titles are limited, though Netflix is great
But what annoys me is it's harder finding downloads (which are more
Of interest to me are Tom Jennings comments about the use of different zones in the BBS Documentary. He spoke of his regret for their creation
and how that addressing schema might have aided some of the historical divisions between some folks we now still seem to encounter in 2019.
The use of Zones does facilitate the administration of "Othernets"
which came after the original Fidonet zones though. Right?
Addressing a netmail to 21:x/x makes it route properly to another
fsxNet system versus a FidoNet system.
I agree, there's no technical reason for zones nowadays. We could all relocate to Zone 1 (it makes sense to have Fidonet occupy the Z1 slot, being the first FTN ever, no other reason). It's nice to think that perhaps Fidonet could grow again to need zones, but I simply don't see that happening. And in reality, I see Z1-4 sticking around for
historical reasons.
Streaming is overrated. Useful, but not without its issues, like
Of interest to me are Tom Jennings comments about the use of different zones in the BBS Documentary. He spoke of his regret for their creatio and how that addressing schema might have aided some of the historical divisions between some folks we now still seem to encounter in 2019.
It always amazes me why several people attribute guru-like capacities to Tom Jennings. He wasn't a visionary and his ideas went nowhere. He
claimed to be an anarchist but he was the kind of anarchist that true anarchists laugh with.
At the time, the BBS-documentary was uploaded on my system so I watched it. Those guys had a good time when they did what they did but
essentially it's history. And not even the kind of history that is remembered. A few days ago people remembered 30 years of WWW. Nobody
ever remembered 30 years of Fido, it was relevant at one time.
At one time there were over 34,000 nodelisted sysops worldwide.
Now there are less than a thousand. In the entire world.
Also time to ditch the multiple zone rule.
Let's write a new policy for all of Fidonet.
On 03-15-19 16:10, nathanael culver wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
Haha well 4k isn't exactly useful here ATM, need a new TV. And we have
Well, in that case BlueRay wouldn't offer you much, either. But my
point was just that Netflix is as good as BR, whatever "good" means in your context.
Maybe in the US. Australian titles are limited, though Netflix is great
The Netflix selection here in Taiwan is pretty limited as well. Which
is why I use a proxy to get the US site.
But what annoys me is it's harder finding downloads (which are more
Umm, bittorrent? Or most pop artists throw their videos up on YouTube these days. You could always download the YT video and extract the
audio. But personally, I have my own media server with mobile app so I just stream from there.
On 03-15-19 21:48, Paul Hayton wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
There's likely too much sentiment attached to Z1-6 so a renumbering
might best work beyond that number range?
On 03-15-19 21:50, Paul Hayton wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
On 15 Mar 2019 at 02:40p, Tony Langdon pondered and said...
Streaming is overrated. Useful, but not without its issues, like
Tell that to Netflix :-)
You're quick to dismiss purported public recall of Fido history and indeed are on record multiple times of stating the future history for Fido is blea Again all your thoughts and perfectly entitled to have them as such. That said, I politely disagree with them. Have you heard of the phrase 'percepti is reality' I fear you may have fallen into a trap you don't know you're stuck in.
Netflix is better because it comes with thousands of movies and TV
shows, and you don't have to get up and change the disc ;)
arrrrgh, this obsession with streaming, as I said, not an option,
was hoping for a legal means. YouTube can work, and I have a script
is why I use a proxy to get the US site.
That works :)
the annoying "previously in..." and the rest of the intro, that you
Let's ditch the "real names only" rule.
Also time to ditch the multiple zone rule.
Fidonet started with only one zone.
There is no longer any reason to have more.
Let's write a new policy for all of Fidonet.
Then have an election by each zone to make
it valid and enforceable. Signed by both
parties, not the sham done by advocates
of P4.
Yep. Talk is cheap. Time to act. You up to it?
Let's ditch the "real names only" rule.
I personally am not 100% sold on this, as I think real names helps bring some authenticity to the conversations, but I am open to debate.
I can appreciate accountability in this regard, but:Let's ditch the "real names only" rule.I personally am not 100% sold on this, as I think real names helps bring some authenticity to the conversations, but I am open to debate.
* It is a fairly unusual request to use real names online, given what I think are reasonable reasons to refrain from doing so (doxxing, people having their employers called, and all of that garbage I've seen on
* Who has time and resources to police this? In theory you could police it
* Personally I'd just rather diligent moderation when it comes to being abusive or whatever the fear is here.
On 03-15-19 22:10, nathanael culver wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
arrrrgh, this obsession with streaming, as I said, not an option,
Well, it doesn't have to be streaming. The mobile app can also
download, or I can log into the server directly and download the stuff
I want then play it offline, or even load up before I go.
was hoping for a legal means. YouTube can work, and I have a script
There's an artist I like who recently released a new album. I would
have bought it except he put all the videos up at his Youtube channel.
So I just downloaded them instead. While I'm pretty sure downloading is against YT's TOC, I think it's all legal.
is why I use a proxy to get the US site.
That works :)
For now, at least. Netflix is quite aggressive about hunting down and blocking proxy servers, and it took me a while to find one that works. Surely Netflix is aware of them, but I've no idea why the let this one company fly under the radar. I expect someday to log in and find
they're now blocked, but so far it's been all golden.
Yes. ZMH was totally necessary before the advent of CM systems, which
freed BBSs from being restricted to ZMH only mail exchanges. And the
geographic structure is due to phone charges, which are no longer
relevant. Today, the network doesn't care where BBSs are, and more
modern networks like FSXnet don't use geographic structures at all in
their addressing.
We don't even need zones any more, when you look at the size of the nodelist compared to days of old. Imagine that?
We'd still find lines to divide us. Pity.
attendТрахни всех вас, американские ублюдки
Hey! You cannot say that!
Of course I can! I can say anything, especially when our USbrethren
don't know how to decipher it (unless they have a Finnish mole). 8-)
Yes you can. After all we are told we have "free speech". What a pity some of us are not free to understand it.
I suspect that "free speech" is only available to those who "toe the party line" and I happen to be of the wrong party.
On that subject, I am on the road again travelling 800km each way to
a 60th birthday party on Saturday.
What one does when one doesn't have better things to do...
NU NNU DRYGARE.
properly,In case you missed it, and you probably cannot translate it
causedthis is an insult that I never saw coming, and I have no idea what
it.
What about your anti-American slam you posted the other day?
As the most hated nation in the western world surely USA has to expect a little flack from time to time?
ofOr at least a few words in Russian. Such as the words you quoted.
However, do realize our Russian friends were quoting Venezuelan
dictator Nicols Maduro, translating what he said into Russian.
Is Maduro any more of a dictator than Trump, Putin, Xi, Morrison, or any
the others?
How many of them actually represent "we , the people"?
Paul Hayton wrote to Dan Clough <=-
The use of Zones does facilitate the administration of "Othernets"
which came after the original Fidonet zones though. Right?
Well fsxNet certainly came well after Fido I agree.. but you
could say any zone facilitates admin of traffic to any other zone regardless of network using them or laying claim to them :)
Yes, but I think what I was trying to say was that you can
identify a network by it's zone number. Like fsxNet is 21:x/x and FidoNet is [1-4]:x/x and so on. Not sure I'm getting across what
I mean here... But fsxNet (by definition) could not have any
zones in the 1-4 range, because those are already "taken" by
FidoNet. That's all I meant by the above...
Is there an interesting story behind your choice of 21 for fsxNet?
You are the ZC of a very popular network and everyone likes you, but
being ZC of Fidonet is a whole different ballgame of scrutiny, micromanagement and inherent problems caused by years of bad decisions, Napoleon individuals, totalitarian "star" systems, censorship, mind
games, fan clubs, bullshit.
Not one utopian proposal I've seen can solve the problem of Fidonet
being comprised mostly of keyboard-warriors ready to pounce and troll *anything*. What good is a 21st-century network going to be if it is comprised of test messages, America Sucks / Europe Sucks, moderator
rules for dead echoes and systems that cannot and will not be upgraded.
My reading of the thread suggests a split sentiment between posters over th very issue. Is the network able to evolve/progress? Sure it is. Do those involved in it want to do that? Perhaps not, perhaps yes.
It seems that the more history something has the more there is to have to hang on to and advocate needs protecting or retaining because as time goes it becomes more familiar, more comfortable. I get that.
be looked at and/or approached differently in 2019? Their thinking is more akin to 'how can we apply 2019 tools and current practices to Fidonet in order to iterate it further? .. at least I think that might be the thinking
Is there an interesting story behind your choice of 21 for
fsxNet?
No not really, just simply I was casting about for an unused zone and started with zone 18 and found after 2-3 days that was clashing with another othernet so moved to 21 and found (thus far) it was a safe
bet.
As I wrote elsewhere, some of the Fido history has caused such irreversible embarassing damage in both Zone 1 and 2 that any idea proposed, even if it cured cancer my friend, the first thing many will look at is who and where is it coming from. What is the zone portion of their address? And lets study that person *very carefully* to see the inevitable flaw that person has.
The ideas I'm seeing: Automated nodelist production - A solution to a nonexistant problem.
nonexistant problem. "One zone to rule them all" and defaulting to zone
1? There is not enough vodka in Zone 1 to feed Zone 2's eternal
laughter.
laughter. A new fidonet.io website? Maybe a good idea, but slightly misguided execution.
Its 2019 and its easier and quicker to get an Internet connection, set
up a router, Wifi, than it is to get a Fido system running correctly.
Why don't you just admit that you're a Gerry Anderson fan (Century-21 fame). :)
Paul Hayton wrote to Dan Clough <=-
The use of Zones does facilitate the administration of "Othernets" which came after the original Fidonet zones though. Right?
Well fsxNet certainly came well after Fido I agree.. but you
could say any zone facilitates admin of traffic to any other zone regardless of network using them or laying claim to them :)
Yes, but I think what I was trying to say was that you can
identify a network by it's zone number. Like fsxNet is 21:x/x and
FidoNet is [1-4]:x/x and so on. Not sure I'm getting across what
I mean here... But fsxNet (by definition) could not have any
zones in the 1-4 range, because those are already "taken" by
FidoNet. That's all I meant by the above...
Rob Swindell wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Yes, but I think what I was trying to say was that you can
identify a network by it's zone number. Like fsxNet is 21:x/x and
FidoNet is [1-4]:x/x and so on. Not sure I'm getting across what
I mean here... But fsxNet (by definition) could not have any
zones in the 1-4 range, because those are already "taken" by
FidoNet. That's all I meant by the above...
With 5D addressing, it *should* have been possible to have
1:1/2@fidonet and 1:1/2@fsxnet be two different systems with no
conflict (that is the entire point of the domain portion of the
address afterall). But 5D address (domain) support in FTN
software is not ubiquitous, and frankly quite useless today. :-(
I've been here for over 3 decades and I've not perceived it to be
a dump.
You sound more and more like a clone of Beeorn with every post.
You're another one that doesn't want anything to change, right?
What one does when one doesn't have better things to do...
One thing about Russia. It would be so much easier to travel
those 800k each way on skis rather than having to do it in the
desert on foot.
What about your anti-American slam you posted the other day?
As the most hated nation in the western world surely USA has to expect a
little flack from time to time?
If the USA is "the most hated nation in the western world", then
why is it so many folks from around the world want to come here,
rather than someplace else?
As I wrote elsewhere, some of the Fido history has caused such irreversible embarassing damage in both Zone 1 and 2 that any idea proposed, even if it cured cancer my friend, the first thing many will look at is who and where is it coming from. What is the zone portion of their address? And lets study that person *very carefully* to see the inevitable flaw that person has.
Its 2019 and its easier and quicker to get an Internet connection, set up a router, Wifi, than it is to get a Fido system running correctly.
Just a user here and trying to follow this conversation though I did run a Fidonet system 25 years ago (man that hurts to type).
* A few systems I've seen have in their login processes, "Just make up a
name for Fidonet, which requires a real name."
* Who has time and resources to police this? In theory you could police it when it came to sysops, but verifying every user...I remember watching
Anyway just my two cents; thank you to all of you, whatever yourpaying
opinions are on all of this, for keeping Fidonet alive all these years: for
for the electricity, hosting, and just keeping your boards running.
As I wrote elsewhere, some of the Fido history has caused such irreversible embarassing damage..
Then, if this is true and I have no reason to doubt it isn't, Fidonet
should be abandoned - which I think is happening naturally.
I have talked about many times an automated front-end web-drivendone with
interface to allow this. Hand out node numbers, provide feeds, etc. and be
it -- all in less than 15 minutes. Completely BBS software agnostic.
I've already started to prototype this out on a new Othernet..will
I'm done fighting with the dinosaurs here on Fido, I'm just moving ahead
with those who want to do something else. I have no doubt that the traffic
follow the technology.
On 03-17-19 03:21, August Abolins wrote to Robert Stinnett <=-
Should we take this topic to another echo? I'm suggesting the existing FUTURE4FIDO.
Fidonet is a technical entity - all of the politics and arguing is just added fluff.
What one does when one doesn't have better things to do...
One thing about Russia. It would be so much easier to travel
those 800k each way on skis rather than having to do it in the
desert on foot.
I'm driving, in air conditioned comfort,
What about your anti-American slam you posted the other day?
As the most hated nation in the western world surely USA has to
expect a little flack from time to time?
If the USA is "the most hated nation in the western world", then
why is it so many folks from around the world want to come here,
rather than someplace else?
Even the most hated nation in the western world is better than some places not in the "western world".
Other than that - marketing has a lot to do with it,
on the planet there really isn't any point in having regions,
either. It was a much different story when everything was POTS
(Plain Old Telephone
Sure. Zones and regions were born in a day when it was important to limit long distance phone costs and try to coordinate Mail Hours. The internet has obsoleted the necessity of all that. Case in point is me: I am in Taiwan, which used to be Zone 6, but my NC is in southern Australia.
ķ ķ ķ
On 13/03/2019 18:16, 3:712/886 wrote:
Damn right you are, Nathanael from down under!
In fact, I'm in Taiwan. Which is illustrative of the problem. Zone 6
is no more (so I was dumped into Zone 3)
Why were you "dumped" in zone 3 rather than "placed" in zone 3. What is it
about zone 3 that constitutes "dumped"?
We don't even need zones any more, when you look at the size of the
nodelist compared to days of old. Imagine that?
We'd still find lines to divide us. Pity.
Technically, a zone *is* required. "Zones" 1 thru 7 have distinguished Fidonet from othernets as in Zone:Net/Node.
But othernets have not struggled over physical zones or regions. Just looking at a few fsxNet nodelist entries:
21:1/10 fsxNet Games + Usenet Gateway,Paul Hayton, Dunedin NZL 21:1/50 fsxNet-MNET Gateway, Paul Hayton, Dunedin NZL
21:1/101 Agency BBS Paul Hayton, Dunedin NZL
21:1/102 Error 404 BBS Todd Zieman, Perrysburg USA
21:1/103 Micro Link BBS Lloyd Russell, Maryborough AUS
21:1/104 Shenk's Express BBS Carol Shenkenberger Virginia Beach USA
Shows a very workable solution.
The "Zone" just identifies the unique Othernet.
Use double-digits in the "Node" part to represent Gateways or Hubs.
Use triple-digits for individual BBSes.
I doesn't matter that the 101 102 103 and 104 are in different countries. Very nice!
We have another one in the ASIAN_LINK echo (a leftover of Z6 but chatty,
Sure. Zones and regions were born in a day when it was important to limit
long distance phone costs and try to coordinate Mail Hours. The internet
has obsoleted the necessity of all that. Case in point is me: I am in
Taiwan, which used to be Zone 6, but my NC is in southern Australia.
Glad to see you Nathanael! We voted to move Z6 to Z3 in 2007 as they had asame
timezone and a lot of sites that worked well with Z6 connections. We have another one in the ASIAN_LINK echo (a leftover of Z6 but chatty, fun and occasionally about Asia).
I remember explaining to Malcom that the reason to not attach them toBrisbane or
Darwin was they didnt have enough common protocols to connect.
We have another one in the ASIAN_LINK echo (a leftover of Z6 but
chatty,
Yes, I'm linked up, but just a lurker for now.
Sure. Zones and regions were born in a day when it was important to
limit long distance phone costs and try to coordinate Mail Hours.
The internet has obsoleted the necessity of all that. Case in point
is me: I am in Taiwan, which used to be Zone 6, but my NC is in
southern Australia.
Glad to see you Nathanael! We voted to move Z6 to Z3 in 2007 as they
Asia has the same time zone as the westernmost part of Z3. Z3 has a number of time zones, with about 6 hours difference between the eastern margin and Asia.
On 19/03/2019 10:34, Carol Shenkenberger -> David Drummond wrote:
I remember explaining to Malcom that the reason to not attach themBrisbane or
to
Darwin was they didnt have enough common protocols to connect.
Was Perth (Western Australia) not viable in Fidonet in those days? Perth has the same time zone as eastern Asia.
actualGlad to see you Nathanael! We voted to move Z6 to Z3 in 2007 as they
Asia has the same time zone as the westernmost part of Z3. Z3 has a number
of time zones, with about 6 hours difference between the eastern margin
and Asia.
David, don't get stupid. Z6 when devolved was only active over Z3. It's
time zones were from Diego Garcia to about just short of Baharain.
Z6 was just south of you and technically
covered almost as many time zones as you.
Technically a
conundrum was the middle east always. Defined as Asia, they fell geographically right under Europe, ...
When I have something close to being interesting to anyone to read I
will consider it.
When I have something close to being interesting to anyone to read I
will consider it.
Don't you think that e.g. information about your struggle to make fidonet.org working once again would be interesting enough to make it above a pissing contest in an obscure fidonet echo like this one?
Kudos for your .io attempt Joacim, but it seems like there's a lot
of information, other than what is slowly leaking out in the
FIDONET.ORG echo, that would be valuable to "concerned fidonet participants".
That is, of course, those that are concerned enough to read our
common news outlet...
I simply state that becoming a member of Fidonet before I launched the site is not easy - it is damn near impossible unless you know where tolook
Now that almost everyone frowns on the BBS concept, and rather want to have every former BBS user have his or her own nodelist entry, I can only take pity in the obvious fidonet decline that will follow, once we've abandoned our old common goal.
Hopefully the new lifeblood that has recently arisen in this and other networks
will once and for all put the final nail in the coffin of this good old boys
club.
The BBS scene finally gets a "breath of fresh life" in it and the first words
out of the old-time "this is the way it was in 1997" crowd is lets make
it even
harder!
The BBS scene finally gets a "breath of fresh life" in it and the first
words
out of the old-time "this is the way it was in 1997" crowd is lets make
it even
harder!
Tell you what, one of the big things that happened to the fidonet community, was the emergence of our Russian friends. Not only did
they give us the binkp, that revolutionized the entire connection way
we now connect to each others.
It also gave us the opportunity to say what they wanted to say to
us without being held back to the US ASCII only alphabet, such as:
?????? ???? ???, ???????????? ???????
"Skriven av Bj?Felten (2:203/2.0)"
Трахни всех вас, американские ублюдки
Трахни всех вас, американские ублюдки
"Fuck you all American bastards"
Maybe you should take a break from fidonet...
Maybe you should take a break from fidonet...
On 12.3.2019 18:48, Björn Felten wrote:
Трахни всех вас, американские ублюдки
"Fuck you all American bastards"
Maybe you should take a break from fidonet...
Bjrn Felten wrote to Joacim Melin <=-
Now that almost everyone frowns on the BBS concept, and rather want
to have every former BBS user have his or her own nodelist entry
R.I.P Fidonet,
That's why I ignore anything that he says. His input is irrelevant to me.
That's why I ignore anything that he says. His input is irrelevant to me.
So you take part of a fidonet echo where you ignore anything that the moderator has to say?
Good luck to you Joacim with your .io vs. .org project. You seem to have a steep uphill to climb. :(
He's not ignoring you because you are the moderator.
NU NNU DRYGARE.
Bjrn Felten wrote to Tommi Koivula <=-
Maybe you should take a break from fidonet...
Now that you mention it, maybe I should.
After having served our community for three decades now, and
only getting insults and never any gratitude for my efforts,
Kurt Weiske wrote to Bjrn Felten <=-
Now that almost everyone frowns on the BBS concept, and rather want
to have every former BBS user have his or her own nodelist entry
I'm not sure where this comes from. Can you back this claim up?
R.I.P Fidonet,
Nothing lasts forever. The important thing to remember is to make
the most of the ride while it lasts.
Bjrn Felten wrote to Robert Stinnett <=-
Good luck to you Joacim with your .io vs. .org project. You
seem to have a steep uphill to climb. :(
Tell you what, one of the big things that happened to the fidonet community, was the emergence of our Russian friends. Not only did they give us the binkp, that revolutionized the entire connection way we now connect to each others.
It also gave us the opportunity to say what they wanted to say to us without being held back to the US ASCII only alphabet, such as:
Трахни всех вас, американские ублюдки
Трахни всех вас, американские ублюдки
Hey! You cannot say that!
David, don't get stupid. Z6 when devolved was only active over Z3. It's actual time zones were from Diego Garcia to about just short of Baharain.
Was Perth (Western Australia) not viable in Fidonet in those days? Perth has the same time zone as eastern Asia.
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