• Streaming is overrated..

    From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Tony Langdon on Friday, March 15, 2019 06:22:30
    Tony Langdon : nathanael culver wrote:

    Streaming is overrated..

    At home, it's a bit different. Streaming services like Netflix and
    YouTube are pretty good, especially on an unlimited 100/40 Mbps connection.
    :)

    What privilege!

    I only get 5/.6 Mbps with DSL (albiet unlimited), but only located at my place of work.

    Additionally, for use at home, I get 2/.8 with Rogers mobile (3G Stick) as I attempt to keep my usage quota under 5GB/month to avoid paying overage.

    With today's tracking and overly graphic elements on websites, screenloads can feel like dialup.

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    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Friday, March 15, 2019 18:08:00
    On 03-15-19 06:22, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    At home, it's a bit different. Streaming services like Netflix and
    YouTube are pretty good, especially on an unlimited 100/40 Mbps connection.
    :)

    What privilege!

    Took a bit of patience!

    I only get 5/.6 Mbps with DSL (albiet unlimited), but only located at
    my place of work.

    2 years ago, I'd have wished for that! Best I could get back then was 3/.5 Mbps DSL on a good day, more likely 1.5-2 down. When the NBN came to town, things changed. Officially 100/40, though in practice, only getting around 90/35, due to the limitations of VDSL, but I'm not complaining about that.

    Additionally, for use at home, I get 2/.8 with Rogers mobile (3G Stick)
    as I attempt to keep my usage quota under 5GB/month to avoid paying overage.

    Phone has 4G with a quota od 4GB, and I have a 4G wifi hotspot with 30GB that lasts a year.

    With today's tracking and overly graphic elements on websites,
    screenloads can feel like dialup.

    Know that feeling. :( Even on this connection, some sites seem slower than they should be.


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  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Ward Dossche on Saturday, March 16, 2019 03:32:31
    Ward Dossche : Paul Hayton wrote:

    .. A few days ago people remembered 30 years of WWW. Nobody
    ever remembered 30 years of Fido, it was relevant at one time.

    Www embraced commercial presence. Fidonet was always promoted as "hobby" non-commercial. Hence, Www gets corporate funding, compuserve is created, AOL comes along, subscriptions are offered, etc. That's why it is remembered. Fidonet is completely different, just a hobby network, privately supported - nothing wrong with that except that is not what makes the evening news.

    I learned about Fidonet through a BBS magazine. I believe one particular issue I had even included RBBS-PC (or it was ordered by request, I can't remember). But that's what got the ball rolling for me.

    We shouldn't be comparing www and fidonet or get depressed about it and think there is no hope for a new improved fidonet.

    .../|ug

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  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to August Abolins on Friday, March 15, 2019 22:14:35
    On 16 Mar 19 03:32:31, August Abolins said the following to Ward Dossche:

    Www embraced commercial presence. Fidonet was always promoted as "hobby" non-commercial. Hence, Www gets corporate funding, compuserve is created, comes along, subscriptions are offered, etc. That's why it is remembered. Fidonet is completely different, just a hobby network, privately supported nothing wrong with that except that is not what makes the evening news.

    I don't think I've chatted with you since the TBBS / AdeptXBBS days 8-)

    T.B.L complaining that the web isn't what he wanted it to be, I do not feel any sympathy for and I hate how the media plays the story as if I'm supposed to feel sorry for him or look at him as a diety. He was actively involved in the creation of some protocols that he knew darn well were going to be used and exploited for commercial usage.

    I learned about Fidonet through a BBS magazine. I believe one particular i I had even included RBBS-PC (or it was ordered by request, I can't remember But that's what got the ball rolling for me.

    Fidonet for me in 1989/1990 was what HAM radio was to nerd teens growing up in the mid 80's. When I got a reply from someone 3,000 miles away, I was hooked.

    I was a huge fan of Seadog, TBBS/Flame, etc but D'Bridge sold me in the end.

    Nick

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  • From Paul Hayton@3:770/100 to Nick Andre on Saturday, March 16, 2019 15:38:43
    On 15 Mar 2019 at 10:14p, Nick Andre pondered and said...

    Fidonet for me in 1989/1990 was what HAM radio was to nerd teens growing up in the mid 80's. When I got a reply from someone 3,000 miles away, I was hooked.

    I was a huge fan of Seadog, TBBS/Flame, etc but D'Bridge sold me in the end.

    Cool memories Nick :) I can only talk of the early to mid 90's but I agree it was such a buzz to use the gear and set up something that worked across continents :)

    Best, Paul

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Paul Hayton on Saturday, March 16, 2019 18:06:00
    On 03-16-19 15:38, Paul Hayton wrote to Nick Andre <=-

    Cool memories Nick :) I can only talk of the early to mid 90's but I
    agree it was such a buzz to use the gear and set up something that
    worked across continents :)

    I go back to late 80s for ham radio and early 90s for BBSs, and yes, the ability to communicate over vast distances for free or cheap was amazing. And as the years went by, more developments would blow my mind:

    1988 - HF CB skip.
    1989 - ham radio HF.
    1990 - Satellite linked repeaters. Repeaters were linked via commercial satellites.
    1991 - Fidonet BBSs and packet radio AXIP/IPIP wormholes. My first experience of a "chat room" was on packet.
    1992 - Becoming a sysop and learning how FTNs actually worked. Amateur satellites (SSB).
    1995 - early Internet VoIP (Internet Phone, Speak Freely, etc).
    1999 - Amateur FM satellites.
    2001 - First experience with IRLP - stable and controllable ham VoIP.
    2004 - EchoIRLP - first true dual system node.
    2005 - Digital inter-network bridging - I had a major hand in this. Refined the technology in 2009.

    And later came D-STAR, DMR, etc. :)

    I'm still looking forward to the day when technology such as FreeDV allows remote area HF links to urban infrastructure in a useful and transparent way. But they are making good progress. the new "700D" mode equals, if not exceeds SSB's weak signal performance on HF.


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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to August Abolins on Saturday, March 16, 2019 10:02:15
    We shouldn't be comparing www and fidonet or get depressed about it and think there is no hope for a new improved fidonet.

    Correct.

    Now in the 30 odd years I've been in this, Fidonet has re-invented itself. It's
    never called that way, but it effectively happened.

    The best example binkd with big thanks to our Russian participants. PSTN connections are largely impossible here, my modem got fried and I can't even obtain anotherone anymore. Not in regular shops, not second hand (well, perhaps
    if I insist well enough someone will have a dusty shoebox on a shelf in a garage) and the "circulatory economy" (the new name for 'recycling shops') has none either.

    Without binkd we'd be a goner by now.

    So someone will need to go to his\her basement or attic and re-invent how we do
    business in Fidonet. Talking about it is one thing, doing it totally another.

    There have been discussion in the past about new nodelist formats, there even was a dedicated echo for it: NEW_NODELIST which on my system is totally dry but
    I'm certain that after this message real soon a moderator message will pop-up in it by someone grabbing it.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
    * Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Paul Hayton on Saturday, March 16, 2019 10:07:13
    Cool memories Nick :) I can only talk of the early to mid 90's but I
    agree it was such a buzz to use the gear and set up something that
    worked across continents :)

    When I was still an executive director for Greenpeace (eeuwww, it hurts having to think back this many years) we had a base on Antarctica and entertained a computer satellite link via a commercial-grade mail-system (1985-6-7-8). I snapped-up the interesting memos with a Tandy-200 laptop on a 300bd accoustic coupler (which I still have) and dropped them on a local BBS linked into Fidonet (no clue then what it was) into a message-area called GREEN.029 ... it was the blog of the life on an Antarctic base as it happened in the pre-WWW days. That echo was carried by almost anything and anyone and read daily in hundreds of schools in zones 1, 2 and 3.

    It was amazing to see al that function in front of your eyes and those involved
    saw the first glimpse of modern media as we know it today.

    The first blog ever was a Fido-thing. Unfortunately those messages, hundreds of
    them, as well as the replies and the questions etc most likely became lost when people gradually left and went for greener pastures. So when the history of "the blog" will be documented, it is not going to mention Fidonet.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
    * Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Tony Langdon on Saturday, March 16, 2019 23:09:13
    Tony Langdon : nathanael culver wrote:

    ..YouTube can work, and I have a script that strips the AAC
    audio off the video. Might have to resort to that.

    I always wondered.. isn't all the audio at YT restricted/limited to 128 Kbps tops? Most of the time 128 Kbps mp3's are fine in the car or other noisy environments. But I find that 128 Kbps tunes converted to audio CD sound terrible when I need a collection to play in my standard hi fi CD player. Ever
    hear of the term "listening fatigue" when CDs first came out? That's the same
    thing I experience (plus of other noticeable differences) when I play CDs created with 128Kbps originals. There's a kind of "edgyness" in the sound that
    gets more and more annoying and uncomfortable.

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    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From nathanael culver@3:712/886 to August Abolins on Sunday, March 17, 2019 07:03:49
    Kbps tops? Most of the time 128 Kbps mp3's are fine in the car or
    other noisy environments. But I find that 128 Kbps tunes converted to

    I honestly don't know. However, as we were talking specifically about mobile,
    I suspect it wouldn't be an issue.

    Personally, I probably have tin ears; they've never had a problem with 128k .mp3 files, nor do I own any high end audio equipment. But that's just me.

    靈컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴 靈컴컴컴 靈컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴
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  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Tony Langdon on Sunday, March 17, 2019 02:44:15
    Tony Langdon : nathanael culver wrote:

    There's an artist I like who recently released a new album. I would
    have bought it except he put all the videos up at his Youtube channel. So I just downloaded them instead. While I'm pretty sure downloading is against YT's TOC, I think it's all legal.

    Hmm, That would probably be considered equivalent to the practice of recording songs off the radio, which we all did in our youth - technically illegal, but everyone did it.

    If I recall correctly, the practice of recording from radio was ruled perfectly
    fine, for personal use. To recognize the matter, a tarrif was placed on blank
    tapes and CDs.

    This site has some historical info and prices about that:

    http://www.cpcc.ca/en/the-cpcc/private-copying-tariff

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  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Rob Swindell on Sunday, March 17, 2019 03:02:10
    Rob Swindell : Dan Clough wrote:

    With 5D addressing, it *should* have been possible to have 1:1/2@fidonet
    and 1:1/2@fsxnet be two different systems with no conflict (that is the
    entire > point of the domain portion of the address afterall). But 5D
    address
    (domain) support in FTN software is not ubiquitous, and frankly quite useless today. :-(

    Very interesting. Was this actually possible with the fidonet protocols?

    Sorry, but I "stepped away" from fidonet-things after 2006.

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  • From Rob Swindell@1:103/705 to August Abolins on Saturday, March 16, 2019 18:10:49
    Re: 5D address (domain) support
    By: August Abolins to Rob Swindell on Sun Mar 17 2019 03:02 am

    Rob Swindell : Dan Clough wrote:

    With 5D addressing, it *should* have been possible to have 1:1/2@fidonet and 1:1/2@fsxnet be two different systems with no conflict (that is the
    entire > point of the domain portion of the address afterall). But 5D address
    (domain) support in FTN software is not ubiquitous, and frankly quite useless today. :-(

    Very interesting. Was this actually possible with the fidonet protocols?

    "the fidonet protocols" is not a very explicit set. Certainly BinkP supports 5D addresses. And type-2.2 packets (FSC-45) support 5D addressing, though they are not widely used. Most other combinations and packets and protocols do not support domains (5D addresses).

    Sorry, but I "stepped away" from fidonet-things after 2006.

    That's cool. 5D packets have been around since 1990, before even I joined FidoNet. They just never really found their need.

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #76:
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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Sunday, March 17, 2019 10:52:00
    On 03-16-19 23:09, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    I always wondered.. isn't all the audio at YT restricted/limited to 128 Kbps tops? Most of the time 128 Kbps mp3's are fine in the car or

    It is compressed with AAC. Don't know the bitrate. It's acceptable for casual listening on portable devices, which is all I'd be doing with it. Certainly not as good as CD quality. But my ffmpeg script (actually a Windows .bat file) at least doesn't do a second conversion cycle when stripping the audio. It just takes the already encoded audio and saves it to a .aac file.

    other noisy environments. But I find that 128 Kbps tunes converted to audio CD sound terrible when I need a collection to play in my standard
    hi fi CD player. Ever hear of the term "listening fatigue" when CDs
    first came out? That's the same thing I experience (plus of other noticeable differences) when I play CDs created with 128Kbps originals.
    There's a kind of "edgyness" in the sound that gets more and more annoying and uncomfortable.

    Yes, it's not going to be so great for hifi listening. That's when you need the CD, or better still, an uncompressed (or losless compressed) audio file at 96k sampling rate or better.


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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Sunday, March 17, 2019 12:44:00
    On 03-17-19 02:44, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    If I recall correctly, the practice of recording from radio was ruled perfectly fine, for personal use. To recognize the matter, a tarrif
    was placed on blank tapes and CDs.

    This site has some historical info and prices about that:

    http://www.cpcc.ca/en/the-cpcc/private-copying-tariff

    Copyright is different in different jurisdictions.


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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Sunday, March 17, 2019 13:20:00
    On 03-17-19 03:02, August Abolins wrote to Rob Swindell <=-

    t of the domain portion of the address afterall). But 5D
    address
    (domain) support in FTN software is not ubiquitous, and frankly quite
    seless
    today. :-(

    Ironically, domain support is now the best it's ever been in FTN software.

    Very interesting. Was this actually possible with the fidonet
    protocols?

    5D software could do it, but in practice, there was very little 5D capable software back in the 90s. Binkleyterm was one that supported domains, but none of the rest of the software (RA, Fmail, Fastecho, etc) supported 5D addressing.
    So in practice, multiple nets in the same zone weren't possible. Today, I suspect it could be done.


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  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to nathanael culver on Sunday, March 17, 2019 04:58:07
    nathanael culver : August Abolins wrote:

    Personally, I probably have tin ears; they've never had a problem with 128k .mp3 files, nor do I own any high end audio equipment. But that's just me.

    You don't know what you are missing! It is such a pleasure to witness music on
    quality room-filling equipment. The ear-bud generation is losing out on witnessing a great audio experience.

    When I can, I store my original CD copies to lossess format. No more 128Kbps-192Kbps for me. The absolute minimum before I notice a discernible difference from an A-B comparison with an original CD is 320Kbps. Even 192Kbps
    does not sound right.

    .../|ug

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    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From nathanael culver@3:712/886 to August Abolins on Sunday, March 17, 2019 12:56:18
    You don't know what you are missing! It is such a pleasure to witness music on quality room-filling equipment. The ear-bud generation is

    You don't understand. One of my first jobs out of grad school was selling
    home electronics, including high-end audiophile stuff. I really did have difficulty hearing the difference, and had to fake it for the customers. Maybe the tinitus has something to do with it.

    Yes, it's my loss, but what can one do?

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  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to August Abolins on Sunday, March 17, 2019 08:49:00
    August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    If I recall correctly, the practice of recording from radio was ruled perfectly fine, for personal use. To recognize the matter, a tarrif
    was placed on blank tapes and CDs.

    I was always surprised there wasn't some obscure process for
    requesting a refund on CD-Rs used for data recording.

    I think that was the first time I realized that corporate lobbying and influence outweighed individual rights.



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  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to August Abolins on Sunday, March 17, 2019 08:52:00
    August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    I always wondered.. isn't all the audio at YT restricted/limited to 128 Kbps tops? Most of the time 128 Kbps mp3's are fine in the car or
    other noisy environments. But I find that 128 Kbps tunes converted to audio CD sound terrible when I need a collection to play in my standard
    hi fi CD player.

    I think it all depends on the music. I have a ton of music ripped from
    streams at 56k that doesn't sound grating to me, but when I listen to
    playlists with an odd song ripped from YouTube I can definitely hear a difference.

    I have one album that I ripped from CD that was missing a track, and
    downloaded a replacement off of YT, and it stands out like a sore
    thumb when listening to it.




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  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to August Abolins on Sunday, March 17, 2019 08:55:00
    August Abolins wrote to nathanael culver <=-

    You don't know what you are missing! It is such a pleasure to witness music on quality room-filling equipment. The ear-bud generation is
    losing out on witnessing a great audio experience.

    Yes, but all the new music is being mixed with the levels boosted, to
    sound better in our little earbuds. I've got a couple of albums where
    I downloaded a replacement "remastered" album, then found the original
    version and compared the two. The sound is so much fuller on the older versions.

    I think they refer to it as the "Loudness Wars" in a YouTube video I
    watched.



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  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Kurt Weiske on Monday, March 18, 2019 00:24:00
    Kurt Weiske : August Abolins wrote:

    I have one album that I ripped from CD that was missing a track, and downloaded a replacement off of YT, and it stands out like a sore
    thumb when listening to it.

    Did you recreate the album on a new CD? If so, there is a feature most burners
    have to "normalize" the sound levels so all tunes are close to the same volume.

    Otherwise, pull each tune into into a program like Audacity. Adjust the levels
    manually for every track. Recreate your .mp3 collection or CD.

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    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Kurt Weiske on Monday, March 18, 2019 00:32:18
    Kurt Weiske : August Abolins wrote:

    ..all the new music is being mixed with the levels boosted, to
    sound better in our little earbuds. I've got a couple of albums where
    I downloaded a replacement "remastered" album, then found the original version and compared the two. The sound is so much fuller on the older versions.

    Now that you mention it, I too have noticed sound differences in remastered products. On my 5-disc changer, the volume levels and bass can be quite different across CDs of the same music style.

    But some remastered versions can be a great improvement.

    I'd get into this further, but maybe it is best in another echo.


    I think they refer to it as the "Loudness Wars" in a YouTube video I
    watched.

    Never heard of that though.

    I've recently signed up with Spotify. They seem to have very little variance in the characteristics in sound tune by tune. I often just play "random" mode from my playlists.

    .../|ug.

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    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From nathanael culver@3:712/886 to Kurt Weiske on Monday, March 18, 2019 10:26:46
    Yes, but all the new music is being mixed with the levels boosted, to

    They did this on the Beatles remasters ten years ago. Travesty.

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  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to August Abolins on Sunday, March 17, 2019 19:39:50
    Re: script that strips the AAC audio off the video
    By: August Abolins to Kurt Weiske on Mon Mar 18 2019 12:24 am

    Did you recreate the album on a new CD? If so, there is a feature most burners have to "normalize" the sound levels so all tunes are close to the same volume.

    No, just copied the file to a directory with the other MP3s. When they play through you can tell the difference in fidelity.
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  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to nathanael culver on Tuesday, March 19, 2019 03:53:56
    nathanael culver : August Abolins wrote:
    You don't know what you are missing! It is such a pleasure to witness music on quality room-filling equipment..

    You don't understand. One of my first jobs out of grad school was selling home electronics, including high-end audiophile stuff. I really did have difficulty hearing the difference, and had to fake it for the customers. Maybe the tinitus has something to do with it.

    Ah.. in a prior message you said you had a "tin ear". I took that as "Insensitivity to and inability to appreciate the elements of performed music or the rhythm, elegance, or nuances of language"

    Whereas "tinitus" is something else. I have a modest ringing in my ears too, for many years, but most of the time I can ignore it. It is said that the frequency you hear is the frequency that is dying. It seems to me that the same
    frequency is having a long slow death.

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  • From nathanael culver@3:712/886 to August Abolins on Tuesday, March 19, 2019 11:19:37
    Ah.. in a prior message you said you had a "tin ear". I took that as

    Hmm, I don't recall saying that. I have no issues with music per se; I just lack the sensitivity to reproduction quality others in this thread seem to possess, even when I was selling high end audiophile equipment for a living. 128bps mp3 vs. 24-bit FLAC makes no difference to my ear.

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