• empty echos like walking through an abandoned mansion

    From August Abolins@2:221/360 to nathanael culver on Saturday, March 16, 2019 21:53:59
    nathanael culver : Lee Lofaso wrote:
    Also time to ditch the multiple zone rule.
    Let's write a new policy for all of Fidonet.

    I concur. Me too. Fidonet 2.0 Ooops, looks too much like Zone 2. We
    don't want it to use *that* number! [cowering and ducking..] LOL

    Something else that could be done would to be clean out the dross in the echoes. A few weeks ago when I linked up to Fidonet, I added all 429 echoes
    [snip]

    ..most trafficked are dead. So yesterday I
    spent an hour or so unlinking about 80% of them.

    I did the same thing, and rescanned for any older posts that were
    available when I felt I had a smooth operation open to the public. What embarrassment. Callers wondered, "where are the messages." It was very
    hard to convince people that Fidonet was truly active.


    Sure, what's wrong with leaving them there? Except paging through my echo list is like walking through an abandoned mansion shouting into empty
    rooms. It gives Fidonet a cold, dead, empty feel.

    Well said. That's the same feeling I had/have.

    One one hand, empty echos give the impression of inactivity or
    non-interest. On the other hand, they are an indication of suitable
    locations for discussion that *can* get started.

    Perhaps we ought to take this topic to one of those suitable echos? I'm
    game.

    .../|ug

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Sunday, March 17, 2019 11:33:00
    On 03-16-19 21:53, August Abolins wrote to nathanael culver <=-

    Perhaps we ought to take this topic to one of those suitable echos? I'm game.

    Name it. I might have to areafix it though. ;)


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  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Tony Langdon on Sunday, March 17, 2019 05:00:28
    Tony Langdon : August Abolins wrote:

    Perhaps we ought to take this topic to one of those suitable echos?
    I'm game.

    Name it. I might have to areafix it though. ;)

    Does FUTURE4FIDO make sense? I'm watching it now.

    .../|ug

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to August Abolins on Sunday, March 17, 2019 14:22:00
    On 03-17-19 05:00, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    Tony Langdon : August Abolins wrote:

    Perhaps we ought to take this topic to one of those suitable echos?
    I'm game.

    Name it. I might have to areafix it though. ;)

    Does FUTURE4FIDO make sense? I'm watching it now.

    Yeah, I'll have to areafix it. :)


    ... And now for something you'll really like! -Rocky
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  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to August Abolins on Sunday, March 17, 2019 08:21:00
    August Abolins wrote to nathanael culver <=-

    One one hand, empty echos give the impression of inactivity or non-interest. On the other hand, they are an indication of suitable locations for discussion that *can* get started.

    It's a catch-22. People can't respond where they don't read. I've
    tried over the years to jump start echoes, and you may get a couple of responses, but no new topics posted.

    Here's an idea -- get a critical mass of sysops to support a *new*
    smaller set of echoes within Fidonet, and see if we can get those
    going. A smaller group, more vibrant, more general topics, similar to
    othernets where the topics are broader and new echoes spun off only
    when traffic dictates.



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  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Kurt Weiske on Monday, March 18, 2019 01:22:56
    Kurt Weiske : August Abolins wrote:
    August Abolins wrote to nathanael culver <=-

    One one hand, empty echos give the impression of inactivity.
    ..On the other hand, they are an indication of suitable
    locations for discussion that *can* get started.

    It's a catch-22. People can't respond where they don't read. I've
    tried over the years to jump start echoes, and you may get a couple of responses, but no new topics posted.

    Someone has to keep at it. I would bet that most sysops are interested in the tech and not the chatter. Sysops (like artists or authors) are not that great in marketing.


    Here's an idea -- get a critical mass of sysops to support a *new*
    smaller set of echoes within Fidonet, and see if we can get those
    going. A smaller group, more vibrant, more general topics, similar to othernets where the topics are broader and new echoes spun off only
    when traffic dictates.

    Sounds very good! Here's another approach. How about steering people into relevant echos that already exist when the subject matter matches that of an echo that exists.

    .../|ug

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  • From nathanael culver@3:712/886 to Kurt Weiske on Monday, March 18, 2019 10:24:20
    Here's an idea -- get a critical mass of sysops to support a *new*
    smaller set of echoes within Fidonet, and see if we can get those

    I think one of the first things that could be done is to reduce the number of sysop echoes; some seem absolutely redundant, others ambiguous, and many just plain dead. Plus, isn't most everyone left on Fidonet a sysop?

    靈컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴 靈컴컴컴 靈컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴
    *HUMONGOUS* BBS nathanael : jenandcal.familyds.org:2323
    聃컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴 聃컴컴컴 聃컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (3:712/886)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to August Abolins on Sunday, March 17, 2019 19:42:19
    Re: empty echos like walking through an abandoned mansion
    By: August Abolins to Kurt Weiske on Mon Mar 18 2019 01:22 am

    Sounds very good! Here's another approach. How about steering people into relevant echos that already exist when the subject matter matches that of an echo that exists.

    We tried that here, and had some folks crying about their right to free speech and crying censorship.

    I think we still have an audio echo somewhere (heh) we could talk about remastering CDs and audio levels there.
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  • From nathanael culver@3:712/886 to August Abolins on Monday, March 18, 2019 11:38:32
    Sounds very good! Here's another approach. How about steering people into relevant echos that already exist when the subject matter matches

    That would, I think, be at best a temporary fix. A particular discussion
    could be relocated to an existing echo; after a week or so it would run its course, then the echo would go long-term dormant again. There simply isn't
    the critical mass of Fidonet users there once was to sustain most of those echoes. Even usually hot-button issues like abortion and guns are generating zero traffic.

    Last week, as prelude to paring down my echoes, I did a rescan for the previous 250 messages from every echo. Most of the echoes returned nothing, meaning they've lain absolutely unused since sometime before my upstream feed started carrying them. And likely means there isn't even anyone linked to them.

    I think the solution would be to enable folks to ad hoc create echoes on the fly, so that if, for example, a Beatles thread evolves in FIDONEWS, one
    could simply forward it to BEATLES and, if the echo tag doesn't exist,
    it's created on-the-fly and propagated out.

    Yes, there would be technical issues like what if a BEATLES echo already exists, but my NC just doesn't happen to carry it?

    靈컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴 靈컴컴컴 靈컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴
    *HUMONGOUS* BBS nathanael : jenandcal.familyds.org:2323
    聃컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴 聃컴컴컴 聃컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (3:712/886)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to nathanael culver on Monday, March 18, 2019 17:49:00
    On 03-18-19 10:24, nathanael culver wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

    I think one of the first things that could be done is to reduce the
    number of sysop echoes; some seem absolutely redundant, others
    ambiguous, and many just plain dead. Plus, isn't most everyone left on Fidonet a sysop?

    I think you'll find there's too much history to do that. ;)


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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Kurt Weiske on Monday, March 18, 2019 17:50:00
    On 03-17-19 19:42, Kurt Weiske wrote to August Abolins <=-

    I think we still have an audio echo somewhere (heh) we could talk about remastering CDs and audio levels there.

    That would be interesting to follow.


    ... You will never "have it all together."
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  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Tony Langdon on Monday, March 18, 2019 19:30:13
    On 18/03/2019 17:49, Tony Langdon -> nathanael culver wrote:

    I think one of the first things that could be done is to reduce the
    number of sysop echoes; some seem absolutely redundant, others
    ambiguous, and many just plain dead. Plus, isn't most everyone left on
    Fidonet a sysop?

    I think you'll find there's too much history to do that. ;)

    The simple answer is to disconnect from the echoes one doesn't want to carry.

    --

    Regards
    David

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to David Drummond on Monday, March 18, 2019 20:48:00
    On 03-18-19 19:30, David Drummond wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    On 18/03/2019 17:49, Tony Langdon -> nathanael culver wrote:

    I think one of the first things that could be done is to reduce the
    number of sysop echoes; some seem absolutely redundant, others
    ambiguous, and many just plain dead. Plus, isn't most everyone left on
    Fidonet a sysop?

    I think you'll find there's too much history to do that. ;)

    The simple answer is to disconnect from the echoes one doesn't want to carry.

    And I can see where that leads - no common ground.


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  • From nathanael culver@3:712/886 to David Drummond on Monday, March 18, 2019 18:47:20
    The simple answer is ...

    ... not necessarily the correct answer.

    靈컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴 靈컴컴컴 靈컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴
    *HUMONGOUS* BBS nathanael : jenandcal.familyds.org:2323
    聃컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴 聃컴컴컴 聃컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (3:712/886)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to nathanael culver on Tuesday, March 19, 2019 07:25:59
    On 18/03/2019 20:47, nathanael culver -> David Drummond wrote:
    The simple answer is ...

    .. not necessarily the correct answer.

    Nor is it necessarily the incorrect answer.

    If you want to be listed as Z1 then get nodelisted in that zone.

    --

    Regards
    David

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  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Tony Langdon on Tuesday, March 19, 2019 07:29:55
    On 18/03/2019 20:48, Tony Langdon -> David Drummond wrote:

    I think one of the first things that could be done is to reduce the
    number of sysop echoes; some seem absolutely redundant, others
    ambiguous, and many just plain dead. Plus, isn't most everyone left on
    Fidonet a sysop?

    I think you'll find there's too much history to do that. ;)

    The simple answer is to disconnect from the echoes one doesn't want to
    carry.

    And I can see where that leads - no common ground.

    As they have none already why complicate matters?

    We (collectively) go on and on about freedom of the individual yet we (collectively) seem to want to tell others what echoes they can or cannot carry
    - to the degree of insisting on the disbandment of the echoes we (collectively) do not want them to carry.

    We are each lord and master of our own systems - the systems of others are none
    of our business (beyond the mutual connectivity).

    --

    Regards
    David

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  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Tony Langdon on Thursday, March 21, 2019 09:29:46
    On 20/03/2019 12:28, Tony Langdon -> David Drummond wrote:

    We are each lord and master of our own systems - the systems of others
    are none of our business (beyond the mutual connectivity).

    That's true, but without some coordination, being connected becomes
    pointless.
    Not that there's anything wrong with being a standalone system, if that's
    what
    you want, but it's not conducive to echomail. :)

    I *did* mention connectivity - both at a IP level and an echo level.

    The content of the echo messages requires no further "coordination" nor oversight to happen.

    --

    Regards
    David

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to David Drummond on Thursday, March 21, 2019 11:37:00
    On 03-21-19 09:29, David Drummond wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    I *did* mention connectivity - both at a IP level and an echo level.

    And having common echotags is a part of the latter.

    The content of the echo messages requires no further "coordination" nor oversight to happen.

    I wasn't talking about content, I _was_ talking about the proliferation of sysop echos, and if different systems decide to drop different echos, then there's no connectivity at an echo level. That's where coordination comes in (and maybe the odd swallowing of one's pride ;) ).


    ... What do you mean off topic??!!! There's a topic?
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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to David Drummond on Wednesday, March 20, 2019 12:28:00
    On 03-19-19 07:29, David Drummond wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    We are each lord and master of our own systems - the systems of others
    are none of our business (beyond the mutual connectivity).

    That's true, but without some coordination, being connected becomes pointless. Not that there's anything wrong with being a standalone system, if that's what you want, but it's not conducive to echomail. :)


    ... All those updates, and still imperfect!
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