Nick Andre : Dan Clough wrote:

Maybe those who see merit in this little utopian exodus fantasy-land of
"One zone to rule them all" should've first Netmailed the ZC's to see how
we felt? Share some stories one on one..

Nick,

You've overreacted and taken the "One zone to rule.." far to seriously. If you look at the original post, it was meant be light + smilely.

Further, the intial discussion was about why the success of othernets using one
zone number and why not fidonet do the same. MEANWHILE, some other technical aspects have come to light. But there was no need bring ancient politics and spew vitriol into the mix.

It is 1,2,3, and 4, for now (primarily it seems because of some mysteries and fears about A MX CNAME etc.. on the internet side) that the most experienced here don't seem to know how to fix. Most people "get" that. Let's move on. Expend your energy towards getting that internet thing solved.

You know what idea I would seriously get behind? BETTER SOFTWARE for newcomers

You said that before. Sounds good.

--- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
* Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)

You've overreacted and taken the "One zone to rule.." far to seriously.

Honestly, as the author of the offending remark I'm having a hard time
getting worked up over the fact that some people here found it cringey or
that it apparently touched off a firestorm of private angry emails.

I get that there's a history in FidoNet. I understand that Fidonet is
paralyzed by politics. I get that there are old-guard folks here who either cannot or will not move past sometimes decades-old grievances. What I don't understand is why those of us who do not share those experiences and that history are apparently expected to always be tiptoeing around the
sensitivities of those who do. I respect those experiences, but I do not
share them, nor do I feel an obligation to always be choosing my words as if
I did.

As long as Fidonet remains open to new members, it has to be allowed that newbies are going to have their own Fidonet experiences quite apart, and very different, from the segment of the FN community which has been around longer. If the community cannot accept that, then maybe Fidonet should stop accepting new members. Make it private, by invitation-only. But to allow people to join and then jump their case when they fail to show adequate sensitivity to an ancient history that is no part of their experience is unreasonable.

My remark was intended as humor and was clearly marked as such. If not
everyone found it humorous, so be it. But those of us who did not live
through the political wars of the past are not inclined to view every comment through that political lens, nor should we be expected to. Sometimes, to paraphrase Freud, a joke is just a joke.

ÖÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ· ÖÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ· ÖÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ·
*HúUúMúOúNúGúOúUúS* BúBúS nathanael : jenandcal.familyds.org:2323
ÓÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄĽ ÓÄÄÄÄÄÄĽ ÓÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄĽ

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (3:712/886)

Nathanael,

I understand that Fidonet is paralyzed by politics.

In that case you seem to be very bad informed, or your definition from politics
is at least 90 degrees differing from mine.

My colleague-ZCs from both Z1 and Z3 are as a-political as one can be. Do not confuse "acting like an asshole" with "engaged in politics" ... there are some assholes ... luckily not enough as 20 years ago.

You can repeat your statement above as a mantra until enough people start accepting it as a message from the heavens, but you can't denonstrate that the net "is" paralyzed by politics. It's a bit like bible preachers ... they cant't
prove anything either, yet they have followers.

If you want change, stop talking and start doing. If it's a good thing it'll catch ... if not, thank you for trying anyway.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Sorry if any of this is naive, but I really would like to hear a summary
of what has caused all of these problems since I left Fidonet in around 1995.

I know that any such telling would likely be controversial in and of
itself but am curious.

I'm not convinced such a summary would be useful or productive.

History is a curious thing, depending upon who wrote about identical facts.

Just put 2 football fans of opposing teams next to eachother, let them look at some scrimmiges together of the same game and they'll see totally different things, at the same moment, but coming from different backgrounds.

I think the situation at this moment really isn't that bad. Someone may voice an opinion or spout a statement, I'm one of those, which may seem harsh but over the years many of us started to wear-out the "next" key as well. The number of times a certain train of thoughts has been visited created the opportunity to write-out a full conversation with all the pros and cons 10 exchanges deep. It even became boring.

Then when I see all the big words about the future, and about change, and about
fidonet.org I'm a tad amused as "been there, done that, got the T-shirt". Change only happens by doing it, not by talking about it. Thank you Russians.

Also several of the people keeping the warz alive have chosen greener pastures,
or "are" now greener patures. Names? I'm not really interested.

I don't think a write-up of the history is going to open-up something but several of the ones that could contribute are not anymore among us and I don't have the ambition to write it down.

Maybe mark lewis ... he likes to talk without having a clue ... :-)

{at times I still love such a curve ball...8-)...}

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Has anyone typed up any sort of summary of these decades-old grievances. Reading a lot of these messages borders on psychedelic; there is obviously a
lot of context and things people know or remember which I clearly missed in my
many years away from Fidonet.

It's more like a book than a summary that I personaly, won't get into.

The other thing - and I noticed this before I started reading this echo - is i
is unclear what the canonical "fidonet website to rule them all is," with the
expected fidonet.org site currently not working correctly. If I am a new SysO
and I want to join Fidonet, where would I begin? Where are reliable modern instructions for this currently (if not ideally)?

Fidonet.org is the best known fido related website by google etc. but it's not the oficial website of fidonet. There is no official website.

Recently fidonet.io went online with a goal of providing upto date content for intersted folks to get info about fidonet and how to join.

Just wonder if any of this is summarized anywhere.

I don't think so, and I hope not. You'd need to talk to folks in net/echomail to get a better idea of what is, was and will be.

Honestly: it makes me sad. Fidonet is worth preserving (I think) as one of these unique things which is both a historical relic, but also as something
useful technologically even today (not much is distributed in the sense Fidone >is - most things are fairly centralized on the Internet), as well as something
which has a unique culture. My memories of it are fond: some of the first messages I ever received from distant places (Ivory Coast!) were through Fidonet in the early 90s.

I also have a fondness for fidonet for much the same reasons and feel as you do. Fidonet has a long history and this is just a part of it.

Is some kind of online summit possible, or desired to work through these
problems, or is this a laughably naive thing that has been proposed before and
laughed at?

I don't think there are any problems currently. Fidonet works like a champ and we can communicate via netmail or echomail as we please.

Different folks communicate differently.

Sorry if any of this is naive, but I really would like to hear a summary of what has caused all of these problems since I left Fidonet in around 1995.

I know that any such telling would likely be controversial in and of itself bu
am curious.

There is no quick and easy way to explain it to you, watch and see.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Re: Re: Fidonet may break due to fears of CNAME MX etc..
By: nathanael culver to August Abolins on Wed Mar 20 2019 06:44 pm

I get that there's a history in FidoNet. I understand that Fidonet is paralyzed by politics. I get that there are old-guard folks here who either cannot or will not move past sometimes decades-old grievances. What I don't

Has anyone typed up any sort of summary of these decades-old grievances. Reading a lot of these messages borders on psychedelic; there is obviously a lot of context and things people know or remember which I clearly missed in my many years away from Fidonet.

The best I can piece together from trying to keep up in here is that Europeans and North Americans had some sort of conflict in the past creating inter-zone tension. Beyond the sort of non-technical disagreements I could probably guess, what else has caused all of this bad blood?

The other thing - and I noticed this before I started reading this echo - is it is unclear what the canonical "fidonet website to rule them all is," with the expected fidonet.org site currently not working correctly. If I am a new SysOp and I want to join Fidonet, where would I begin? Where are reliable modern instructions for this currently (if not ideally)?

Just wonder if any of this is summarized anywhere.

And this message is most assuredly not any kind of invitation to stir anything up. But it is odd seeing something talked about over the course of thousands of messages, but not to be familiar with the "thing" other than what is said about it.

Honestly: it makes me sad. Fidonet is worth preserving (I think) as one of these unique things which is both a historical relic, but also as something useful technologically even today (not much is distributed in the sense Fidonet is - most things are fairly centralized on the Internet), as well as something which has a unique culture. My memories of it are fond: some of the first messages I ever received from distant places (Ivory Coast!) were through Fidonet in the early 90s.

Is some kind of online summit possible, or desired to work through these problems, or is this a laughably naive thing that has been proposed before and laughed at?

Sorry if any of this is naive, but I really would like to hear a summary of what has caused all of these problems since I left Fidonet in around 1995.

I know that any such telling would likely be controversial in and of itself but am curious.
--- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
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