• 2:203/0 tomorrow

    From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to All on Wednesday, March 20, 2019 20:57:54
    Well, within 24 hours we will know how the transfer from one ISP to another have worked.

    In Sweden we can chose whatever electricity provider we want. With the switch from one to the other, we expect the changeover to be totally smooth, so
    that we don't lose a single period of electricity. And it works. The new provider simply issues a changeover to the old provider and the change is done instantly.

    Why it can't work the same for fiber is beyond me. Here the ISPs all have a 30 day notice. I had to ask my old ISP to cancel my account and then inform my new ISP when, after 30 days, the cancellation was going to take place, and then
    hope that my new ISP will be ready to take over. After a minute, an hour or half a day depending on how alert they are.

    If you have VoIP only phones and no email access, it's kinda hard to reach the helpdesk of your new ISP to inform them that it's a go to connect me via their service...



    ..

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Björn Felten on Thursday, March 21, 2019 08:03:00
    On 03-20-19 20:57, Bjrn Felten wrote to All <=-

    Well, within 24 hours we will know how the transfer from one ISP to another have worked.

    In Sweden we can chose whatever electricity provider we want. With
    the switch from one to the other, we expect the changeover to be
    totally smooth, so that we don't lose a single period of electricity.
    And it works. The new provider simply issues a changeover to the old provider and the change is done instantly.

    In that case, all that has to be done is for billing information to be transferred across. There is no changed required for generation, transmission or metering. All that stays the same, which is one reason why I find electricity privitisation a little bizarre - you simply get to choose who sends the bill. :) And it doesn't always work. I know of cases where the old provider wouldn't release the account and the customer ended up getting double billed (a bill from the old and new provider).

    Why it can't work the same for fiber is beyond me. Here the ISPs all have a 30 day notice. I had to ask my old ISP to cancel my account and then inform my new ISP when, after 30 days, the cancellation was going
    to take place, and then hope that my new ISP will be ready to take
    over. After a minute, an hour or half a day depending on how alert they are.

    There's a lot more changes. You are connecting to a different back end network, so it's a case of effectively disconnecting from one network and reconnecting to another. But that said, the system in Sweden seems overly complicated. In Australia, all you do is sign up for a new provider, and that starts a "churn" process, where the connection change is done in the background. The changover usually takes less than a week, and normally requires no intervention from the costomer, other than swapping or reconfiguring their router.

    If you have VoIP only phones and no email access, it's kinda hard to reach the helpdesk of your new ISP to inform them that it's a go to connect me via their service...

    Here, it's normally a simply matter of when it stops working, switch to the new service, which will start working very quickly, if not immediately. But if something goes wrong, that's what mobile phones are for.

    Normally such a churn works fine, helped a friend with this process a few months ago and it went smoothly - I helped with the "paperwork" (actually electronic), then the new provider delivered the router. When his connection with the old provider died, I simply swapped the router and he was up and running on the new one. :)

    Changing connection technologies is sometimes more complicated. The last technology change was from ADSL to VDSL almost 2 years ago. I stayed with the same provider (I like them), but the process was officially a change of plan, but in practice was more like a change of provider, because the same line was to be switched from the ADSL DSLAM at the exchange to the VDSL node across the street.

    All the paperwork looked normal, but when the ADSL went down, the VDSL didn't come up. And of course, this was all discovered on a FRiday evening, which meant nothing would be done over the weekend.

    In the middle of the next week, a tech from the NBN (the owner of the VDSL network) came to investigate. Turns out that the tech who did the changeover trusted the cabling data in the pillar and didn't check to see that he had the right pair. The old connection only died when the port was disconnected at the enchange. It only took a few minutes with a signal tracer for him to locate the right pair and fix the connection in the street to get us back online. :)


    ... <A>bort <R>etry <D>o what I mean!!!
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  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Björn Felten on Thursday, March 21, 2019 09:48:09
    On 21/03/2019 05:57, 2:203/2 wrote:
    Well, within 24 hours we will know how the transfer from one ISP to another have worked.

    In Sweden we can chose whatever electricity provider we want. With
    the switch from one to the other, we expect the changeover to be totally smooth, so that we don't lose a single period of electricity. And it works. The new provider simply issues a changeover to the old provider
    and the change is done instantly.

    I think that the change of electricity supplier is a paper/billing transaction only. The electrical power is still generated by the same entity and delivered via the same wires/cables.

    Internet may be delivered via the same wire/cable to the home but the switching
    equipment at the exchange (whatever it's called these days) is supplied by and
    connected to the various ISPs.

    In Australia we now have a thing called the NBN.

    NBN Co Limited is an Australian government-owned corporation tasked to design, build and operate Australia's National Broadband Network as a monopoly wholesale broadband provider. It reports to two shareholder ministers: the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Communications.

    All of the various ISPs are just resellers of this NBN product.

    As they roll out the NBN via various technologies (I am connected to fixed wireless) the are discontinuing the POTS network. We all get VOIP via our NBN connection.

    The last POTS node in Australia changed to NBN recently. There are no more POTS
    nodes here.

    --

    Regards
    David

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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to David Drummond on Thursday, March 21, 2019 09:12:17
    Internet may be delivered via the same wire/cable to the home but the switching equipment at the exchange (whatever it's called these days) is supplied by and connected to the various ISPs.

    It's called a digital subscriber line access multiplexer (DSLAM). And as you
    might understand my fiber stays connected to the same DSLAM whenever I change ISP, it's remotely controlled.

    So there would be absolutely no problem for an ISP to remotely switch off my
    old ISP and instantaneously connect me via it's server whenever they want to.

    Nah, this is a commercial gimmick so that they can discourage customers from
    going ISP hopping. So and so many months of binding time is OK to recover the cost of equipment that may be "free" when you sign a contract, but once that binding time is over there's no need for an additional 30 day notice, IMHO.



    ..

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  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Björn Felten on Friday, March 22, 2019 13:35:54
    On 21/03/2019 18:12, 2:203/2 wrote:
    Internet may be delivered via the same wire/cable to the home but the
    switching equipment at the exchange (whatever it's called these days) is
    supplied by and connected to the various ISPs.

    It's called a digital subscriber line access multiplexer (DSLAM).
    And as you might understand my fiber stays connected to the same DSLAM whenever I change ISP, it's remotely controlled.

    I was under the impression that the Australian ISPs had their own ADSL DSLAMs in the various exchanges.

    I have read that xxx ISP cannot deliver in a certain area as they do not have a
    DSLAM at that exchange.

    This has most certainly changed with NBN - but not everyone is connected to that yet, it is still being rolled out.

    --

    Gang warily
    David

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to David Drummond on Friday, March 22, 2019 17:16:00
    On 03-22-19 13:35, David Drummond wrote to Bjrn Felten <=-

    I was under the impression that the Australian ISPs had their own ADSL DSLAMs in the various exchanges.

    For DSL, a small number have their own DSLAMS, the majority rent space on Telstra and/or Optus DSLAMs. When I was on DSL, it was through a Telstra DSLAM (only choice) but another ISP.

    I have read that xxx ISP cannot deliver in a certain area as they do
    not have a DSLAM at that exchange.

    Or an arrangement to use Telstra's DSLAMs at a price.


    ... I took an IQ test, and the results were negative.
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  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Tony Langdon on Friday, March 22, 2019 16:51:25
    On 22/03/2019 17:16, Tony Langdon -> David Drummond wrote:
    On 03-22-19 13:35, David Drummond wrote to Bjrn Felten <=-

    I was under the impression that the Australian ISPs had their own ADSL
    DSLAMs in the various exchanges.

    For DSL, a small number have their own DSLAMS, the majority rent space on Telstra and/or Optus DSLAMs. When I was on DSL, it was through a Telstra
    DSLAM
    (only choice) but another ISP.

    I have read that xxx ISP cannot deliver in a certain area as they do
    not have a DSLAM at that exchange.

    Or an arrangement to use Telstra's DSLAMs at a price.

    Then surely churning would then be a paper transaction - and doable in no time at all?

    --

    Gang warily
    David

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to David Drummond on Friday, March 22, 2019 18:42:00
    On 03-22-19 16:51, David Drummond wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    Then surely churning would then be a paper transaction - and doable in
    no time at all?

    The actual change takes no time, but there is always some delay, which I'd put down to administrative delays.


    ... A hunch is creativity trying to tell you something.
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  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Tony Langdon on Friday, March 22, 2019 10:09:00
    Tony Langdon wrote to David Drummond <=-

    The actual change takes no time, but there is always some delay, which
    I'd put down to administrative delays.

    Brian Regan does a great skit about switching his phone service to a
    new house.

    "Do you need to send someone out to the house?"

    "No, we just flip a switch..."

    "Well, can you flip it now?"

    "No, we're going to flip it next Thursday..."

    "Can you flip it right now?"

    "No, we're going to flip it on Thursday. Late. Or Friday. Or some time in
    Late November..."

    "Can you see the switch from where you're at? Can I come down and flip
    it?"





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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Kurt Weiske on Saturday, March 23, 2019 06:45:00
    On 03-22-19 10:09, Kurt Weiske wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    Tony Langdon wrote to David Drummond <=-

    The actual change takes no time, but there is always some delay, which
    I'd put down to administrative delays.

    Brian Regan does a great skit about switching his phone service to a
    new house.

    ROFLMAO!!! :D


    ... Know why divorce is so expensive? It's WORTH it!
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