• /what point software

    From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Michiel van der Vlist on Monday, June 08, 2020 09:59:00
    Hello Michiel!

    ** On Monday 08.06.20 - 10:38, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Rob Swindell:

    MvdV> A basic problem with off-line readers. I don't have that problem
    MvdV> because I do not use that system. The message id's from my users are
    MvdV> generated on their system by their point software. It does not matter
    MvdV> in what time frame they arrive here.

    What is the point software that those point systems are using?


    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.44
    * Origin: This is a test of the Emergency Tagline System (2:221/1.58)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to August Abolins on Tuesday, June 09, 2020 08:17:49
    Hello August,

    On Monday June 08 2020 09:59, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> A basic problem with off-line readers. I don't have that
    MvdV>> problem because I do not use that system. The message id's from
    MvdV>> my users are generated on their system by their point software.
    MvdV>> It does not matter in what time frame they arrive here.

    What is the point software that those point systems are using?

    Binkd, Fmail, Golded.


    Cheers, Michiel

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    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tuesday, June 09, 2020 08:06:20
    Re: /what point software
    By: Michiel van der Vlist to August Abolins on Tue Jun 09 2020 08:17:49


    What is the point software that those point systems are using?

    MvdV> Binkd, Fmail, Golded.

    that's not "point software"... that's a full blown FTN mailer and tosser with a sysop message base reader/editor being used as a point ;)

    "point software" is (generally) a dedicated purpose-written package much like QWK/BW offline mail clients...


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tuesday, June 09, 2020 07:37:00
    Michiel van der Vlist wrote to August Abolins <=-


    MvdV>> A basic problem with off-line readers. I don't have that
    MvdV>> problem because I do not use that system. The message
    id's from
    MvdV>> my users are generated on their system by their point
    software.
    MvdV>> It does not matter in what time frame they arrive here.

    What is the point software that those point systems are using?

    Binkd, Fmail, Golded.

    None of that is "point software".



    ... She sells unix shells by the sea shore.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to mark lewis on Tuesday, June 09, 2020 15:50:32
    Hello mark,

    On Tuesday June 09 2020 08:06, you wrote to me:

    What is the point software that those point systems are using?

    MvdV>> Binkd, Fmail, Golded.

    that's not "point software"... that's a full blown FTN mailer and
    tosser with a sysop message base reader/editor being used as a point
    ;)

    Most point software only differs from full blown node software in the configuration.

    "point software" is (generally) a dedicated purpose-written package
    much like QWK/BW offline mail clients...

    Not in this part of the world. ŗointing was born with the idea to give users direct access to the boss node system by using the same ŗrotocols as used between nodes. So it is no miracle that ŗoint software looks a lot like the software used by nodes. Some "ŗoint packages" were merely ŗreconfigured ŗackages of node software. Some authors of commercial software offered point version that were stripped down version of the node sofwtare. E.g by restricting it to connect only to one Boss node. Ever so often just by another (cheaper) key. Upgrading to node software could be done by buying a new key.

    Also, many mailers were sold in single and multi line versions. Point always used the cheaper single line version.

    Nowadays - now that commercial Fidonet software has gone the way of the Dodo, there is no reason for points not to use the full versions...

    QWK/BW was never popular ćere and AFAIK was never used by points. (I ćave been the R28 Point Coordinator since 1996 or so.) In 1996 R28 had some 5500 registered points.


    Cheers, Michiel

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    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/1.2 to Dan Clough on Tuesday, June 09, 2020 18:05:51
    Hello, Dan Clough.
    On 09/06/20 7.37 you wrote:

    What is the point software that those point systems are using?
    Binkd, Fmail, Golded.
    None of that is "point software".

    But the combination of those three sure is. ;)

    --
    Tommi

    --- HotdogEd/2.13.5 (Android; Google Android; rv:1) Hotdoged/1590198455000 HotdogEd/2.13.5
    * Origin: rbb nntp point system (2:221/1.2)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tuesday, June 09, 2020 11:08:44
    Re: /what point software
    By: Michiel van der Vlist to mark lewis on Tue Jun 09 2020 15:50:32


    MvdV>>> Binkd, Fmail, Golded.

    that's not "point software"... that's a full blown FTN mailer and
    tosser with a sysop message base reader/editor being used as a point
    ;)

    MvdV> Most point software only differs from full blown node software in
    MvdV> the configuration.

    most *that you're aware of* maybe...

    MvdV> QWK/BW was never popular ćere and AFAIK was never used by points.

    it could have been if BBSes stayed BBSes instead of dropping capabilities to mere mail hubs... besides, QWK/BW cannot be used by points unless they specifically set up a BBS to run the QWK/BW server software from...


    )\/(ark
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    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to mark lewis on Tuesday, June 09, 2020 18:28:14
    Hi mark!

    09 Jun 2020 08:06, from mark lewis -> Michiel van der Vlist:

    What is the point software that those point systems are using?
    MvdV>> Binkd, Fmail, Golded.
    that's not "point software"... that's a full blown FTN mailer and
    tosser with a sysop message base reader/editor being used as a point
    ;)

    "point software" is (generally) a dedicated purpose-written package
    much like QWK/BW offline mail clients...

    Point SW is SW that can be used as a point. (As full blown FTN requirements are a superset of point requirements ... all full blown FTN SW can be used for points).

    I have used golded, HPT and BinkD as a point.

    Other examples of less full blown point software is the CLI OpenXP and the quit buggy and umnaintained WinPoint.

    CU, Ricsi

    ... I would like to thank my middle finger for always sticking up for me.
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: I'm working on my 2nd million... Gave up on the 1st. (2:310/31)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Dan Clough on Tuesday, June 09, 2020 18:31:54
    Hi Dan!

    09 Jun 2020 07:37, from Dan Clough -> Michiel van der Vlist:

    Binkd, Fmail, Golded.
    None of that is "point software".

    I used that software (-Fmail +HPT) as a point.

    CU, Ricsi

    ... If ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more happy people?
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: He who seeks a friend without a fault remains friendless (2:310/31)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to mark lewis on Tuesday, June 09, 2020 18:37:16
    Hi mark!

    09 Jun 2020 08:06, from mark lewis -> Michiel van der Vlist:

    What is the point software that those point systems are using?
    MvdV>> Binkd, Fmail, Golded.
    that's not "point software"...

    Small additional remark:
    In Germany there was the very successful Fido Point Deluxe package.
    They bundled Golded, HPT and BinkD with a Windows Installer that configured everything after you answered some basic questions in the installation.
    (Windows)

    CU, Ricsi

    ... We should believe in something; I believe I'll have a beer.
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Power is an illusion; only stupidity is real. (2:310/31)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Richard Menedetter on Tuesday, June 09, 2020 13:30:00
    Richard Menedetter wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Binkd, Fmail, Golded.

    None of that is "point software".

    I used that software (-Fmail +HPT) as a point.

    Perhaps you did.

    My statement above is still valid, though. None of those are
    *specifically* used as point software (which is what I thought
    would be obvious in the way I stated it). There *are* dedicated
    point software packages around.



    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to mark lewis on Tuesday, June 09, 2020 21:17:12
    Hello mark,

    On Tuesday June 09 2020 11:08, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> Most point software only differs from full blown node software
    MvdV>> in the configuration.

    most *that you're aware of* maybe...

    Let me refrase that.

    The software used by the majority of points only differs from full blown node software in the configuration.

    MvdV>> QWK/BW was never popular ìere and AFAIK was never used by
    MvdV>> points.

    it could have been if BBSes stayed BBSes instead of dropping
    capabilities to mere mail hubs...

    You are reversing cause and effect. BBSs disapeared in Z2 because the users massively converted to participate as points. And the main trigger for that was the introduction of metered local calls. A couple of decades ago I wrote two related Fidonews articles about it. On was titles "How metered local call killed the BBS in Z2" and the other "Why pointing never really took of in Z1".

    besides, QWK/BW cannot be used by points unless they specifically set
    up a BBS to run the QWK/BW server software from...

    Another reason not to bother with it.


    Cheers, Michiel

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    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to mark lewis on Tuesday, June 09, 2020 21:26:28
    Hello mark,

    On Tuesday June 09 2020 11:08, you wrote to me:

    @PID: Synchronet 3.18a-Linux May 23 2020 GCC 7.5.0
    @TZUTC: -0400
    @TID: SBBSecho 3.11-Linux r3.173 May 23 2020 GCC 7.5.0
    @CHRS: CP437 2
    ^^^^
    Note that your software marked your reply to my message as encoded in CP437.

    Look here:

    MvdV>> QWK/BW was never popular ìere and AFAIK was never used by points.
    ^

    Instead of an 'H' we see an 'i' with accent grave. The infamous hex 8D in CP437. My mesage however was encoded in CP866. That is Cyrillic and in CP866, hex 8D is the letter pronounced as 'i' in 'Putin" which looks very much like the latin 'H'. So someone using a reader that propely displays CP866, would not have noticed anything odd other than the capitalisation.

    When answering my message your software sees a character >127 which is not part of a well formed UTF-8 sequence and wrongly decides it is CP437.

    This is exactly what I expected to happen to your software when an encoding other than ASCII, CP437 or UTF-8 is used. It illustrates why I stated that automatically determining the encoding after it is out of the hands of te writer is not a good strategy.

    QED.

    Cheers, Michiel

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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Richard Menedetter on Tuesday, June 09, 2020 21:48:06
    Hello Richard,

    On Tuesday June 09 2020 18:28, you wrote to mark lewis:

    I have used golded, HPT and BinkD as a point.

    I started as a point with InterMail, Interedit and Gecho.


    Cheers, Michiel

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  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tuesday, June 09, 2020 16:48:00
    Hello Michiel!

    ** On Tuesday 09.06.20 - 08:17, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to August Abolins:

    What is the point software that those point systems are using?

    MvdV> Binkd, Fmail, Golded.

    Congratulations for building/stitching multiple programs together to accomplish point appearance.

    But when I said point software I was refering to the fidonet understanding
    of what "point software" means. Just look at the Fidonews newsletter ever week:

    +- - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+

    POINT SOFTWARE

    APoint |PI |https://stargate.org.uk/apoint/
    | | v1.25 on 2001-12-12

    CrossPoint (XP) |P? |http://www.crosspoint.de (German only)
    | | pm@crosspoint.de
    | | v3.12d on 1999-12-22

    FreeXP |P |http://www.freexp.de (German only)
    | | support@freexp.de
    | | v3.42 on 2010-06-27
    FidoIP |PO |http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki
    | | /fidoip/
    | | v.1.0.5 on 2010-12

    OpenXP |PIO |https://sourceforge.net/projects
    | | /openxp5/ 2:240/2188.31
    | |http://openxp.uk Windows/Linux
    | | dev@openxp.uk English/German
    | | v5.0.42 on 2019-12-28

    WinPoint |PI |http://www.winpoint.org
    | | English/German/Spanish
    | |https://stargate.org.uk/winpoint/
    | | v5 (Beta Release) on 2017-03-17
    +- - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+

    Are you suggesting that list is a lie? or incomplete? ..or falsely
    reports what point software actually is? ;)


    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.44
    * Origin: This is a test of the Emergency Tagline System (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Richard Menedetter on Tuesday, June 09, 2020 17:06:00
    Hello Richard!

    ** On Tuesday 09.06.20 - 18:28, Richard Menedetter wrote to mark lewis:

    Point SW is SW that can be used as a point. (As full blown FTN requirements are a superset of point requirements ... all full blown FTN SW can be used for points).

    No. The term Point SW is one program that functions as a point. The same term and understanding is expressed in the software list every week in the fidonet newsletter. ;)

    Using multiple auxilliary programs doesn't count. That is not excluding
    the possibilty of stitching them together to appear as one program and behaving as expected - that's great!


    I have used golded, HPT and BinkD as a point.

    Sweet.


    Other examples of less full blown point software is the CLI OpenXP and
    the quit buggy and umnaintained WinPoint.

    Add Apoint to the record.

    FYI, https://kolico.ca/fidonet/echos/points/


    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.44
    * Origin: This is a test of the Emergency Tagline System (2:221/1.58)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to August Abolins on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 00:47:37
    Hello August,

    On Tuesday June 09 2020 16:48, you wrote to me:

    What is the point software that those point systems are using?

    MvdV>> Binkd, Fmail, Golded.

    Congratulations for building/stitching multiple programs together to accomplish point appearance.

    [..]

    Are you suggesting that list is a lie? or incomplete? ..or falsely reports what point software actually is? ;)

    No. But it is just a list of what is available. Not what is in actual use.

    So... just for the sake of argument let me go along with your line of reasoning and go back to your original question:

    What is the point software that those point systems are using?

    They are not.


    Happy now?



    Cheers, Michiel

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    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tuesday, June 09, 2020 20:25:53
    Re: /what point software
    By: Michiel van der Vlist to mark lewis on Tue Jun 09 2020 21:26:28


    MvdV> Instead of an 'H' we see an 'i' with accent grave. The infamous hex
    MvdV> 8D in CP437. My mesage however was encoded in CP866. That is Cyrillic
    MvdV> and in CP866, hex 8D is the letter pronounced as 'i' in 'Putin" which
    MvdV> looks very much like the latin 'H'. So someone using a reader that
    MvdV> propely displays CP866, would not have noticed anything odd other than
    MvdV> the capitalisation.

    that partucular character has problems several ways... in this case, though, it is known as the soft_cr... it is used to tell other readers/editors where the word wrap is/was on the original... some tosser have an option to strip this... some editors have an option to set it... some have no choice and it is set all the time... i know that QWK/BW use it for their terminal wrap in edited messages...

    so if we strip it, then we break other languages... german is one, IIRC... if we leave it, some of today's readers/editors will show it instead of word wrapping on it and not displaying it at all...

    this BBS editor has it as an option... i'll flip it after writing this reply and we'll see how my future messages look...


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to August Abolins on Tuesday, June 09, 2020 20:26:00
    August Abolins wrote to Michiel van der Vlist <=-

    What is the point software that those point systems are using?

    MvdV> Binkd, Fmail, Golded.

    Congratulations for building/stitching multiple programs together
    to accomplish point appearance.

    But when I said point software I was refering to the fidonet
    understanding of what "point software" means. Just look at the
    Fidonews newsletter ever week:

    +- - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    - -+

    POINT SOFTWARE

    APoint |PI |https://stargate.org.uk/apoint/
    | | v1.25 on 2001-12-12

    CrossPoint (XP) |P? |http://www.crosspoint.de (German
    only)
    | | pm@crosspoint.de
    | | v3.12d on 1999-12-22

    FreeXP |P |http://www.freexp.de (German only)
    | | support@freexp.de
    | | v3.42 on 2010-06-27
    FidoIP |PO
    |http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki
    | | /fidoip/
    | | v.1.0.5 on 2010-12

    OpenXP |PIO |https://sourceforge.net/projects
    | | /openxp5/
    2:240/2188.31
    | |http://openxp.uk
    Windows/Linux
    | | dev@openxp.uk
    English/German
    | | v5.0.42 on 2019-12-28

    WinPoint |PI |http://www.winpoint.org
    | |
    English/German/Spanish
    | |https://stargate.org.uk/winpoint/
    | | v5 (Beta Release) on 2017-03-17
    +- - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    - -+


    Good points! ;-)

    Game, Set, and Match to Mr. Abolins.

    Are you suggesting that list is a lie? or incomplete? ..or
    falsely reports what point software actually is? ;)

    My firm belief is that he (and others) are just arguing for the
    sake of arguing... :(


    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
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  • From Terry Roati@3:640/1321 to Michiel Van Der Vlist on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 15:01:36
    On Jun 09, 2020 03:48pm, Michiel Van Der Vlist wrote to Mark Lewis:

    Hi Michiel,

    MVDV> QWK/BW was never popular
    MVDV> ere and AFAIK was never used by points. (I
    MVDV> ave been the R28 Point Coordinator since 1996 or so.) In 1996 R28 had
    MVDV> some 5500 registered points.

    That is very interesting, do you know why this was the case? Language maybe?

    When I left Fidonet Philippines we had 3 points only and one of them I know became a sysop later.

    Terry


    ... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
    * Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Terry Roati on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 11:38:48
    Hello Terry,

    On Wednesday June 10 2020 15:01, you wrote to me:

    MVDV>> QWK/BW was never popular ere and AFAIK was never used by points.
    ^
    MVDV>> (I ave been the R28 Point Coordinator since 1996 or so.)
    ^
    Your software has stripped the hex 8D.

    MVDV>> In 1996 R28 had some 5500 registered points.

    That is very interesting, do you know why this was the case? Language maybe?

    Language was not the issue I think. Pointing was not only popular in The Netherlands, it was popular in all of Europe. At the height of Fidonet there were over half a million points listed in the Z2 pointlist. The pointlist was a voluntairty thing. Some point sysops choose not to be in it. So there may have been more than half a million.

    I'd say the introdcution of metered local calls was the main trigger for the BBS users to become points. And oh yes, calls in the middle of the night were cheaper, so they could configure their system to poll the boss node in the cheap time. On the other side side of the fence, sysops would encouarage their BBS users to become points because points only kept the line for minutes instead of hours. So that sysops could do more with less lines.
    Plus that once having experienced pointing the majority never wanted to go back to reading and writing messages via a BBS. In the Netherlands BBS users became an extinct species. The last one was spotted in the wild around 1996.

    When I left Fidonet Philippines we had 3 points only and one of them I know became a sysop later.

    One out of three ain't bad I'd say. ;) here the pool of points was a breeding ground for new sysops. After the early nineties it was very unusual to have new sysops that hadn't started out as a point. I myself started out as a point too.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Dan Clough on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 12:10:14
    Hi Dan!

    09 Jun 2020 13:30, from Dan Clough -> Richard Menedetter:

    Binkd, Fmail, Golded.
    None of that is "point software".
    I used that software (-Fmail +HPT) as a point.
    Perhaps you did.
    My statement above is still valid, though.

    We agree to disagree ;)
    Does not really matter.
    It is definitely not a Point only software, there we agree.
    It is definitely a very capable software that can be very well used to have a point.

    None of those are *specifically* used as point software (which is what
    I thought would be obvious in the way I stated it). There *are*
    dedicated point software packages around.

    Take for example the german fido point deluxe package.
    HPT+Golded+BinkD with a windows installer and batch files to have a complete point without any configuration.
    The installer configures everything to immediately be able to connect to your boss after installation.

    CU, Ricsi

    ... I had no shoes and complained, until I met a man who had no feet.
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: But existing is basically all I do! (2:310/31)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to August Abolins on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 12:21:58
    Hi August!

    09 Jun 2020 16:48, from August Abolins -> Michiel van der Vlist:

    What is the point software that those point systems are using?
    MvdV>> Binkd, Fmail, Golded.
    Congratulations for building/stitching multiple programs together to accomplish point appearance.

    But when I said point software I was refering to the fidonet
    understanding of what "point software" means.

    Point software is software that can be used to run a point.

    What you mean are dedicated point packages.

    Both approaches have advantages and disadvantages.

    Ready made point packages are usually easier to set up, but are limited in their scope.

    Full fledged fido software with a point config is usually more complex to set up, but offers much more functionality and a very easy upgrade path to a full node setup.

    It is good that people can choose which route they want to go.

    CU, Ricsi

    ... There are still incurable romantics ... we need better medicine.
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: A pessimist is never disappointed... (2:310/31)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to August Abolins on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 12:25:38
    Hi August!

    09 Jun 2020 17:06, from August Abolins -> Richard Menedetter:

    Point SW is SW that can be used as a point. (As full blown FTN
    requirements are a superset of point requirements ... all full
    blown FTN SW can be used for points).
    No. The term Point SW is one program that functions as a point.

    That is your definition.
    Mine is point software is software that has the capability to run a point setup.

    It does not really matter .... you are happy with your definition and I am happy with mine.
    And we continue to live meaningful lives ....

    Using multiple auxilliary programs doesn't count.

    It definitely counts in my book.
    I noted that your view differs ... fine for me.

    Other examples of less full blown point software is the CLI
    OpenXP and the quit buggy and umnaintained WinPoint.
    Add Apoint to the record.

    FYI, https://kolico.ca/fidonet/echos/points/

    Thanks ... did not know that.
    Will have a look when I have a bit of time.

    CU, Ricsi

    ... 42? - 7 and a half million years and all you can come up with is 42?!
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Friendships are not always preserved in alcohol. (2:310/31)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Dan Clough on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 12:29:02
    Hi Dan!

    09 Jun 2020 20:26, from Dan Clough -> August Abolins:

    My firm belief is that he (and others) are just arguing for the
    sake of arguing... :(

    See my reply to August.

    BTW I personally prefer to set up a point with full fledged fido software.
    This is what I have done when I entered fido, and it was much easier to conert that setup from point to node.

    Anyways I have noted that for some people software that can be used to run a point is not point software.

    What you call point software is a dedicated point package to me (limited SW that ONLY can run as point, but is a bit easier to setup).
    I think the world is big enough that we can live with both "definitions".

    I do not think it makes much more sense to argue about definitions ....

    CU, Ricsi

    ... Insanity: Doing same thing over & over and expecting different results.
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Great minds discuss ideas; Small ones, people. (2:310/31)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Richard Menedetter on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 08:50:00
    Hello Richard!

    ** On Wednesday 10.06.20 - 12:10, Richard Menedetter wrote to Dan Clough:

    Take for example the german fido point deluxe package.
    HPT+Golded+BinkD with a windows installer and batch files to have a complete point without any configuration. The installer configures everything to immediately be able to connect to your boss after installation.

    Ah.. Frankenpoint! I know that one. LOL

    It's a stiched up creation of different progs. It was a clever viable solution in its time. Kudos to the doctors. The installer was a nice touch and the main star of the show, imho! I tried it for a few months. It
    *did* need a few of tweeks in the config files to make it work though. Definitely not the best solution for the non-sysop.

    When operating, the screen appearance of the mailer frontend and then the change to something else when it was processing and then yet the change to something else for editing was not a seemless presentation of operations.

    But we all know what happened in Franknstein. LOL

    The Dr realized he created an abomination. The abomination turned on him.
    ;)

    ../|ug

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    * Origin: This is a test of the Emergency Tagline System (2:221/1.58)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Richard Menedetter on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 14:54:44
    Hello Richard,

    On Wednesday June 10 2020 12:29, you wrote to Dan Clough:

    BTW I personally prefer to set up a point with full fledged fido
    software. This is what I have done when I entered fido, and it was
    much easier to conert that setup from point to node.

    Same here. A fellow HAM and friend - he was my right hand in maintaing the local 2m repeater - happened to be the local InterMail dealer. One day he came in with a couple of disks and installed InterMail on my 286. He gave me a nice discount and from then on he was my Boss Node. That was in 1991 or 1992. I don't think there were any dedicated point setups available then.

    Anyway, it was my way of getting to know Fidonet technology and after that upgrading to full node was a piece of cake.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to mark lewis on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 15:59:24
    Hello mark,

    On Tuesday June 09 2020 20:25, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> Instead of an 'H' we see an 'i' with accent grave. The infamous
    MvdV>> hex 8D in CP437.

    Note the use of te word "infamous".

    that partucular character has problems several ways... in this case, though, it is known as the soft_cr...

    I know that <sigh>

    This what I wrote in Fidonews Vol 29, nr 1 in an article titled "A PLEA FOR UTF-8 IN FIODONET Part 2" (Part one was published in Vol 28, nr 52)

    === quote ===

    So what else would we need to make FidoNet work with UTF-8? As far as
    the transport layer is concerned nothing really. FidoNet is fully 8
    bit transparent except for the NULL as the terminating character for
    strings. There is no conflict as in UTF-8 the NULL character has the
    exact same meaning as in ASCII. Oh wait, there is this tiny little
    snag: the archaic soft return. In their infinite wisdom, the founding
    fathers decided that the character 0x8D had special meaning; that of
    soft return. Probably a remnant from the Wordstar days. In hindsight
    totally superfluous and a conflict with many code page schemes that
    treat it as a printable character. It also conflicts with UTF-8. 0x8D
    is a valid byte in a well formed UTF-8 string. Fortunately most bronze
    age software allows configuring 0x8D as a printable character instead
    of soft return, so this should no longer be a problem. Be sure however
    to configure your tosser to not strip soft returns.

    === unquote ===

    so if we strip it, then we break other languages... german is one,

    German is hardly affected. The most used encodings in Germany are CP850 and Latin-1. In CP850 it is the 'i' with accent grave which is not used in German. In Latin-1 it is a control code R1, whatever that means. The Russians are most affected as in Cyrillic CP866 it is the capital letter ć pronunced as the 'N' in "Putin" as I already explained.
    In UTF-8 it affects more than one language as it can occur in a well formed UTF-8 sequence.

    IIRC... if we leave it, some of today's readers/editors will show it instead of word wrapping on it and not displaying it at all...

    Those reader have long been fased out in this part of the world. Mainly because it is considered a printable character by most. Golded has the option: DISPSOFTCR yes

    Tossers should never strip it. Period. Althoug Fmail still has an option to do so. Possibly for historic reasons.

    this BBS editor has it as an option... i'll flip it after writing this reply and we'll see how my future messages look...

    Your editor did not striŗ it or I would not have seen the 'i' with †ccent gr†ve in your mess†ge.

    But you †re ignoring the ŗoint. Which w†s that your softw†re wrongly m†rks your reply to my message as CP437. It should haven been CP866.

    I h†ve hidden, some more e†ster eggs, this time not involving hex 8D.

    Enjoy.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Mauro Veiga@1:103/705 to MARK LEWIS on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 18:02:00
    Quoting Mark Lewis to Michiel Van Der Vlist at 06-09-20 11:08 <=-

    MvdV> QWK/BW was never popular ere and AFAIK was never used by points.

    it could have been if BBSes stayed BBSes instead of dropping
    capabilities to mere mail hubs... besides, QWK/BW cannot be used by
    points unless they specifically set up a BBS to run the QWK/BW server software from...

    I used IREX, INDIGO and BLUEWAVE a long time ago to create a type of
    Point for reading / writing in Newsgroups using Bluewave, despite an
    error in the time zone that I couldn't resolve at the time.

    INDIGO was old software that converts PKT <-> QWK/REP. It allowed
    the use of BLUEWAVE without a BBS. Was funny. And it would work
    the same way with FTN.

    I believe that it shouldn't be difficult to make a Point program
    made to use BLUEWAVE or another OLR. I'd love that. :-)


    ... BlueWave - Universe Tour - Stardate 47634.44
    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
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