It's very surreal seeing your name again after all these years.... :-)

Nick.

--- SLMAIL v5.1 (#SLO409KEDG15G098)
* Origin: The Trashcan - The BEST rubbish * bbs.thenet.gen.nz (3:772/210)

Re: ...
By: Nick Mackechnie to Rob Swindell on Wed Apr 24 2019 01:17 pm

It's very surreal seeing your name again after all these years.... :-)

Where ya been? :-)

digital man

Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #14:
CR = Carriage Return (ASCII 13, Ctrl-M)
Norco, CA WX: 64.9øF, 61.0% humidity, 0 mph S wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
--- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Hi Nick,

On 2019-04-24 13:17:00, you wrote to Rob Swindell:

No kludge lines at all?

It's very surreal seeing your name again after all these years.... :-)

Nick.

--- SLMAIL v5.1 (#SLO409KEDG15G098)
* Origin: The Trashcan - The BEST rubbish * bbs.thenet.gen.nz

(3:772/210)

SEEN-BY: 19/36 57/0 103/705 154/10 203/0 220/70 221/0 229/426 240/5832 SEEN-BY: 267/800 280/464 5003 5555 310/31 317/2 393/68 396/45 423/120 SEEN-BY: 712/848 770/0 1 10 100 330 340 772/0 1 210 500 2320/200 2452/250 @PATH: 772/210 770/1 280/464
@Via SLMAIL v5.1 (#SLO409KEDG15G098)

A @Via line in echomail? And not even complying to the standard... How did this
happen?

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hello Wilfred,

24 Apr 19 08:56 at you wrote to Nick Mackechnie:

A @Via line in echomail? And not even complying to the standard... How
did this happen?

*gasp* You mean there's old DOS software that doesn't fit "standards"?

Say it ain't so!

Later,
Sean

... If things were left to chance, they'd be better.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Limestone, TN, USA (1:18/200)

On Apr 24th 2:32 am Rob Swindell said...

Re: ... By: Nick Mackechnie to Rob Swindell on Wed Apr 24 2019 01:17 pm

It's very surreal seeing your name again after all these years.... :-)

Where ya been? :-)

LMAO! I was gonna actually ask the same question, worded the same way....

You've helped me more times than I can count over the last year, thanks again! :)





--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.10-alpha (linux; x64; 10.15.2)
* Origin: The Amiga Frontier BBS |frontierbbs.net:8888| OH (1:226/16)

Hi Sean,

On 2019-04-24 22:08:25, you wrote to me:

A @Via line in echomail? And not even complying to the standard...
How did this happen?

*gasp* You mean there's old DOS software that doesn't fit "standards"?

Say it ain't so!

:-)

It shouldn't be allowed in Fidonet! ;)

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hello Wilfred,

25 Apr 19 12:18 at you wrote to me:

*gasp* You mean there's old DOS software that doesn't fit
"standards"?

Say it ain't so!

:-)

It shouldn't be allowed in Fidonet! ;)

The good thing about standards is that there are so many standards to choose from. :D

Later,
Sean

... Law of Gifts: you get the most of what you need the least.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Limestone, TN, USA (1:18/200)

Hi Nick,

On 2019-04-24 13:17:00, you wrote to Rob Swindell:

No kludge lines at all?

A feature of SLMail.... Come on.. it's like - Y2k... isnt your friend.

Nick.

--- SLMAIL v5.1 (#SLO409KEDG15G098)
* Origin: The Trashcan - The BEST rubbish * bbs.thenet.gen.nz (3:772/210)

Hi Nick,

On 2019-04-26 12:38:00, you wrote to me:

Hi Nick,

On 2019-04-24 13:17:00, you wrote to Rob Swindell:

No kludge lines at all?

A feature of SLMail.... Come on.. it's like - Y2k... isnt your friend.

Nick.

--- SLMAIL v5.1 (#SLO409KEDG15G098)
* Origin: The Trashcan - The BEST rubbish * bbs.thenet.gen.nz

(3:772/210)

SEEN-BY: 19/36 57/0 103/705 154/10 203/0 220/70 221/0 229/426 240/5832 SEEN-BY: 267/800 280/464 5003 5555 310/31 317/2 393/68 396/45 423/120 SEEN-BY: 712/848 770/0 1 10 100 330 340 772/0 1 210 500 2320/200 2452/250 @PATH: 772/210 770/1 280/464
@Via SLMAIL v5.1 (#SLO409KEDG15G098)

And what about that VIA line here?

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hi Wilfred.

26 Apr 19 10:41, you wrote to Nick Mackechnie:

--- SLMAIL v5.1 (#SLO409KEDG15G098)
* Origin: The Trashcan - The BEST rubbish * bbs.thenet.gen.nz
(3:772/210)
SEEN-BY: 19/36 57/0 103/705 154/10 203/0 220/70 221/0 229/426 240/5832 NM>> SEEN-BY: 267/800 280/464 5003 5555 310/31 317/2 393/68 396/45 423/120
SEEN-BY: 712/848 770/0 1 10 100 330 340 772/0 1 210 500 2320/200 2452/250 NM>> @PATH: 772/210 770/1 280/464
@Via SLMAIL v5.1 (#SLO409KEDG15G098)

And what about that VIA line here?

You may ignore it, it starts with ^A. ;)

'Tommi

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: nntps://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/1)

Hi Tommi,

On 2019-04-26 12:02:24, you wrote to me:

@PATH: 772/210 770/1 280/464
@Via SLMAIL v5.1 (#SLO409KEDG15G098)

And what about that VIA line here?

You may ignore it, it starts with ^A. ;)

I can, but other software might choke on it.

If you want your messages to have the best chance to get everywhere in fidonet,
it's a good idea your messages adhere to the current standards!

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hi Wilfred.

26 Apr 19 11:10:42, you wrote to me:

Hi Tommi,

On 2019-04-26 12:02:24, you wrote to me:

@PATH: 772/210 770/1 280/464
@Via SLMAIL v5.1 (#SLO409KEDG15G098)

And what about that VIA line here?

You may ignore it, it starts with ^A. ;)

I can, but other software might choke on it.

If so, the software is really bad. :)

If you want your messages to have the best chance to get everywhere in fidonet, it's a good idea your messages adhere to the current standards!

Of course. But in this case I find it very hard to believe that this via thing causes any problems.

'Tommi

... \\HAL has been up for: 29 day(s), 4 hour(s), 8 minute(s), 7 second(s)
---
* Origin: IPv6 Point at [2001:470:1f15:cb0:2:221:1:1] (2:221/1.1)

Hi Tommi,

On 2019-04-26 15:57:48, you wrote to me:

If you want your messages to have the best chance to get everywhere
in fidonet, it's a good idea your messages adhere to the current
standards!

Of course. But in this case I find it very hard to believe that this
via thing causes any problems.

Me too... But if it does, and the message disappears in a blackhole, people probably won't even notice...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

On 2019 Apr 26 10:41:14, you wrote to Nick Mackechnie:

--- SLMAIL v5.1 (#SLO409KEDG15G098)
* Origin: The Trashcan - The BEST rubbish * bbs.thenet.gen.nz
(3:772/210)
SEEN-BY: 19/36 57/0 103/705 154/10 203/0 220/70 221/0 229/426 240/5832
SEEN-BY: 267/800 280/464 5003 5555 310/31 317/2 393/68 396/45 423/120
SEEN-BY: 712/848 770/0 1 10 100 330 340 772/0 1 210 500 2320/200
2452/250
@PATH: 772/210 770/1 280/464
@Via SLMAIL v5.1 (#SLO409KEDG15G098)

And what about that VIA line here?

what about it? other than it duplicates the information in the tear line, what trouble does it cause? have you ever seen a tosser that rejects messages with control lined that are expected only in netmail or, conversly, in echomail? you
can even send echomail around the world without any control lines or origin and no tosser will reject it as one might expect...

TLDR; FTN tossers reject bad/malformed PKTs but not echomail messages with control lines used for netmail or visa versa...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... I hope we live to be as old as our jokes.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 2019 Apr 26 15:33:16, you wrote to Tommi Koivula:

If you want your messages to have the best chance to get everywhere
in fidonet, it's a good idea your messages adhere to the current
standards!

Of course. But in this case I find it very hard to believe that this
via thing causes any problems.

Me too... But if it does, and the message disappears in a blackhole, people probably won't even notice...

except those on the rejecting system and then only if the operator is monitoring their logs...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... This person should go far, and the sooner he starts the better.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 26 Apr 19 12:38:00, Nick Mackechnie said the following to Wilfred Van Velzen

No kludge lines at all?

A feature of SLMail.... Come on.. it's like - Y2k... isnt your friend.

Ignore Wilfred please. SLMAIL works fine in Fidonet. I wrote utilities for Searchlight a long time ago. Nice to see an SL system still on-line.

The presence of a VIA line in Echomail is very unlikely to cause problems.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hello Wilfred,

Friday April 26 2019 10:49, Nick Andre wrote to Nick Mackechnie:

Ignore Wilfred please. SLMAIL works fine in Fidonet.

Please ignore Nick. Your observation about the missing kludge lines is 100% correct.
Stone age software that misses features that have been common practise for decades does NOT "work fine" in today's Fidonet.

No MSGID makes developers jump through hoops to implement good dupe detection. Good dupe detectionis essential in today's Fidonet where the Fidoweb is the main distribution method for echomail. Making developers jump through hoops puts them off. Not good for Fidonet

No reply kludge makes the reader jump through hoops to find the original post that was replied to. Making the reader jump through hoops annoys him/her. Annoying the users of message readers makes them move to greener pastures. Not good for Fidonet.

Considering that in today's Fidonet, the vast majority of messages is written in languages that need more than just ASCII to properly get the message across,
software that does not support the CHRS kludge does NOT "work fine" in today's
Fidonet. No CHRS kludge is OK when the message is ASCII only, but that covers only a small part of today's Fidonet. Not good for Fidonet.

While a TZUTZ kludge is not essential, it does compensate for the design flaw of using local time instead UTC in a global netwerk, and so one can not say that software not supporting it, "works fine". Not good for Fidonet.

The presence of a VIA line in Echomail is very unlikely to cause
problems.

Not so long ago you were vilified over a VIA kludge Fmail added to messages moved to the BAD area. How hypocrtitical!

Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

On 27 Apr 19 10:27:38, Michiel Van Der Vlist said the following to Wilfred Va

No MSGID makes developers jump through hoops to implement good dupe detect Good dupe detectionis essential in today's Fidonet where the Fidoweb is the main distribution method for echomail. Making developers jump through hoops puts them off. Not good for Fidonet

LOL.

A mail tosser is one of THE most complicated types of programs to develop
for Fidonet next to the mailer. Chances are, someone who writes one knows what they're doing. Chances are, they are already "jumping through hoops", as there is no clear FTSC "how to" guide for developing a tosser from scratch.

MSGID did absolute jack shit for every time we've all seen an improperly configured Synchronet system spit out duplicates in FN_SYSOP, FIDONEWS and other echoes. It seemed from 2005 to 2015 this was an occurence every
couple of years or so. A Sysop puts up a BBS and is configuring things wrong, then shit happens and every echo got slammed with dupes. Where did
everyone's precious lovely perfect MSGID stop this?

MSGID does nothing for duplicates caused by circular paths, Seen-by stripping, mangled headers or message content regurgitated, etc. Some software even
takes a message missing a MSGID kludge and adds its own.

MSGID is flawed and lazy programming. I maintain the code of a mailer which
has had a rock solid duplicate detection scheme since 1988. It does not rely on date/time stamps, serial numbers or other nonsense kludged to messages to detect a duplicate. Works just fine here, for decades.

No reply kludge makes the reader jump through hoops to find the original p that was replied to. Making the reader jump through hoops annoys him/her. Annoying the users of message readers makes them move to greener pastures. good for Fidonet.

You appear to be easily annoyed if this is such a problem for you, and the original thread was that SLMAIL works perfectly fine in Fidonet.

Although SLMAIL cannot have kludges added to its code as it is essentially abandonware, I can read and reply to someone who posts from a Searchlight system just fine... I do not get all annoyed and upset over missing
character set, replies or timezone kludges.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hi Nick.

27 Apr 19 12:10:56, you wrote to Michiel Van Der Vlist:

Some software even takes a message missing a MSGID kludge and adds its own.

Really? Which one does that for intransit echomail?

'Tommi

... \\PYY has been up for: 50 day(s), 14 hour(s), 30 minute(s), 22 second(s) ---
* Origin: IPv6 Point at [2001:470:1f15:cb0:2:221:1:1] (2:221/1.1)

Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Wilfred van Velzen <=-

Stone age software that misses features that have been common practise for decades does NOT "work fine" in today's Fidonet.

I think you meant to say that "modern software should ignore extraneous
kludge lines that are put into messages by older software".

I know for a fact MBSE does. I dare say other software does too.

Tilting at windmills again (and not just because you're Dutch :P).

Later,
Sean

--- MultiMail/Linux
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Limestone, TN, USA (1:18/200)

Nick Andre wrote to Michiel Van Der Vlist <=-

A mail tosser is one of THE most complicated types of programs to
develop for Fidonet next to the mailer. Chances are, someone who writes one knows what they're doing. Chances are, they are already "jumping through hoops", as there is no clear FTSC "how to" guide for developing
a tosser from scratch.

He's going full Don Quixote on us, Nick.

Later,
Sean

--- MultiMail/Linux
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Limestone, TN, USA (1:18/200)

Tommi Koivula wrote to Nick Andre <=-

Some software even takes a message missing a MSGID kludge and adds its own.

Really? Which one does that for intransit echomail?

I don't think he's talking about in-transit as I don't see Nick mentioning in-transit mail. I'm thinking that he meant that would be when the mail is tossed into its final destination in a message base.

Later,
Sean

--- MultiMail/Linux
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Limestone, TN, USA (1:18/200)

On 28 Apr 19 20:51:35, Sean Dennis said the following to Michiel Van Der Vlist:

Stone age software that misses features that have been common practis for decades does NOT "work fine" in today's Fidonet.

I think you meant to say that "modern software should ignore extraneous kludge lines that are put into messages by older software".

I know for a fact MBSE does. I dare say other software does too.

I have yet to see a legacy tosser/Fido product that chokes on VIA lines in Echomail. Remember all the Searchlight/SLMAIL systems from the 90's? I sure do... and their Echomail made their way through TBBS/Flame, Fmail, Gecho, Fastecho, D'Bridge systems etc just fine.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hi Sean.

28 Apr 19 20:55:54, you wrote to me:

Tommi Koivula wrote to Nick Andre <=-

Some software even takes a message missing a MSGID kludge and adds its
own.

Really? Which one does that for intransit echomail?

I don't think he's talking about in-transit as I don't see Nick mentioning in-transit mail. I'm thinking that he meant that would be when the mail

is

tossed into its final destination in a message base.

Ok, well that's another story. In your own msgbase you can do whatever you like. :)

'Tommi

---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi (2:221/360)

Hi Mark.

29 Apr 19 20:15:38, you wrote to me:

On 2019 Apr 29 20:23:34, you wrote to Sean Dennis:

I don't think he's talking about in-transit as I don't see Nick
mentioning in-transit mail. I'm thinking that he meant that would be
when the mail is tossed into its final destination in a message base.

Ok, well that's another story. In your own msgbase you can do whatever
you like. :)

while that is true, it is possible that it could cause problems if an echomail hub rescans an area and that rescan gets distributed...

especially

if the tosser doesn't recognize the ^ARESCANNED control line... if they do recognize the ^ARESCANNED line, they should not pack the message for _any_ linked systems whether listed in the seenbys or not...

While that is true, echomail hubs should never do %rescan. ;)

'Tommi

---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi (2:221/360)

Hello Tommi,

30 Apr 19 20:43 at you wrote to mark lewis:

While that is true, echomail hubs should never do %rescan. ;)

Fine, spoil all of my fun. :D

Later,
Sean

... Gold's Law: if the shoe fits, it's ugly.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Limestone, TN, USA (1:18/200)

On 2019 Apr 29 20:23:34, you wrote to Sean Dennis:

I don't think he's talking about in-transit as I don't see Nick
mentioning in-transit mail. I'm thinking that he meant that would be
when the mail is tossed into its final destination in a message base.

Ok, well that's another story. In your own msgbase you can do whatever
you like. :)

while that is true, it is possible that it could cause problems if an echomail hub rescans an area and that rescan gets distributed... especially if the tosser doesn't recognize the ^ARESCANNED control line... if they do recognize the ^ARESCANNED line, they should not pack the message for _any_ linked systems
whether listed in the seenbys or not...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Acupuncture is a jab well done.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hello Tommi Koivula!

** On Friday 29.04.22 - 17:41, Tommi Koivula wrote to August Abolins:

Hello, August Abolins.
On 29/04/2022 16.28 you wrote:

Hi All...
File: 626be68c.
Error: 500 Can't connect to api.telegram.org:443
Ciao!
/|ug (https://t.me/aabolins)

Prego!

That's ok. The file/pic wasn't meant to be post here anyway.


--

../|ug


--- OpenXP 5.0.51

* Origin: The ONLY point that matters --> . <-- (1:153/757.21)

18 Nov 2022 22:53, you wrote to you:

Just testing reply to an OpenXP message and see the quote+CR problem arises with this older version Aftershock

This one has "broken" quotes.

I think it happens with all Aftershock versions. I tested with 1.6.8 and 1.6.11

Carlos

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)