Joacim,

"certain people in power who abuse that power" ...

Is that hypothetically speaking? Because if it isn't I would like you to expand
a bit on this. Like ... names perhaps ?

Take care,

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Hello Ozz,

On Tuesday March 26 2019 18:48, you wrote to me:

I updated my AAAA records for exchangeBBS... but, I do not have an
IPv6 enabled VPS environment...

<sigh> That's mounting the horse behind the cart. :(

D:\FIDO6\BINKD>ping exchangebbs.com

Ping exchangebbs.com [2001:470:1f18:12d::2] mit 32 Bytes Daten:

Zeitüberschreitung der Anforderung.
Zeitüberschreitung der Anforderung.
Zeitüberschreitung der Anforderung.
Zeitüberschreitung der Anforderung.

Ping-Statistik für 2001:470:1f18:12d::2:
Pakete: Gesendet = 4, Empfangen = 0, Verloren = 4 (100% Verlust),


Advertising IPv6 connectivity when you do not actually have it, is BAD. Properly configured clients will first try IPv6 and if that does not result in a connect, they will try IPv4 after some time. For binkp connects this is just mildly annoying, the Fidonet robots are very patient. But humans are not. Your BBS users will get very annoyed having to wait for the fall back to IPv4.

D:\FIDO\NODELIST>ping 2001:470:1f18:12d::1

Ping wird ausgeführt für 2001:470:1f18:12d::1 mit 32 Bytes Daten:

Antwort von 2001:470:1f18:12d::1: Zeit=146ms
Antwort von 2001:470:1f18:12d::1: Zeit=142ms
Antwort von 2001:470:1f18:12d::1: Zeit=140ms
Antwort von 2001:470:1f18:12d::1: Zeit=139ms

Ping-Statistik für 2001:470:1f18:12d::1:
Pakete: Gesendet = 4, Empfangen = 4, Verloren = 0 (0% Verlust),
Ca. Zeitangaben in Millisek.:
Minimum = 139ms, Maximum = 146ms, Mittelwert = 141ms

The tunnel starting point pings, you tunnel end point does not. The tunnel is not properly configured.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Joacim,

"certain people in power who abuse that power" ...

Is that hypothetically speaking? Because if it isn't I would like you
to expand a bit on this. Like ... names perhaps ?

Take care,

I'm sure you would but I've had my share of harassment and threats via netmail this year and I'm considering dropping Fidonet entirely to be honest, including
scrapping www.fidonet.io which started the harassments in the first place.

I can say this much: there are a lot of rules in Fidonet, some actually written
down and others seems to be invented by moderators, RC, NC or whatever. There as been a more or less ongoing argument about this for as long as I can remember and the minute someone, me or someone else, suggests a change they are
basically idiots and should either shut up or go away. Or both.

Fidonet is not a very welcoming environment, and it is mostly not run by very welcoming, friendly people. It is, as it stands now, not designed to be easy to
join and easy to get going with. There are *A LOT* of friendly sysops and others (Hi Tommi!) who will gladly help you with whatever you are trying to get
to work but once you start to rub certain people the wrong way you become a target of harassment.

I'm tired of this. To quote a person from the BBS documentary whos wife left him because he was on the computer all the time: "This was supposed to be a hobby, it was supposed to be fun.". Fidonet is not fun.



--- NiKom v2.5.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:201/120.0)

Hello Joacim,

On Tuesday March 26 2019 19:38, you wrote to me:

I'd like to ask a question, without any preconceived opinions or otherwise: move Fidonet forward... where?

Why do you think I have the answer? It is not me that insists on radical changes.

I mean, the network as such isn't exactly growing,

And neither is the local fish club, the amateur stage club and the HAM community. Things come and go.

the technology is more or less based on the same stuff as 10-20 years
ago (which is fine by me)

I would not mind if those proudly advertising that they still use 25+ year old stuff would change their mind. I would not mind a 32 bits version of Allfix. I would not mind some changes to Golded that make it easier to write Cyrillics. And I would like to see more IPv6 capable nodes. Other than that... Most is fine as it is...

the arguing and the politics are still the same as always.

It was pretty quit in here until a couple of returnees came barging in demanding change...

I say Fidonet isn't going anywhere. it will remain the same until the
last person leaving shuts off the light.

That is what happens when old people run an antiquated show. I have no problem with it.

Not to say that things can't *improve*, such as removing certain
people in power who abuse that power

Who will decide who may stay and who has to go? The inquisition? And then? Hire
an elimination squad?

or maybe merge all zones into one since it's pretty fucking
silly to have all these zones,

You think you are the first with that idea? Go find my Fidonews articles. I wrote two articles about removing a level of hierarchy. Too lazy to look it up for you.

networks and whatnot as if Fidonet will suddenly grow to 20000 BBS:es again. If Fidonet is to stand a fighting chance to survive it needs
to be a friendlier place, a more accessible place. Have a look at how
easy you can join FSXNet, how welcoming that network is and how
friendly the atmosphere there are...

If FSXnet is so great, why are you here?

and compare it to this network who yells to every newcomer to get off
it's lawn.

You come storming in out of nowhere and DEMAND that we old farts who have been here for over a quarter of a century CHANGE so that Fidonet becomes an alternet
for FSXnet? And you are surprised that we are not all that enthousiastic? How about storming into the Den of a Harley club and demand that they stop drinking
beer, replace the bikes by famlily cars and start sipping wine...

So maybe I failed to not have opinions but I care deeply about this
stuff.

And no - I will not discuss this in Fidonews, which is the dung heap
of Fidonet.

I am not going to continue to discuss it here, it is not a matter that desires interaction between the Fidonet community and the FTSC.


Cheers, Michiel

--- Fmail, Binkd, Golded
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

You're right, Michiel. I'll go somewhere else. FSXnet is nice, welcoming and not hostile. And who am to think I can just appear out of nowhere after years being a member and try to help and move things forward, being how the old guard
seem to be doing such a nice job with that?

Just make sure to turn out the light after the last BBS leaves. Probably won't be long now...

Goodbye.


--- NiKom v2.5.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:201/120.0)

Hej Joacim!

Det viktigaste är inte att vinna, utan att kämpa väl.

Livet är gott,
Maurice

... Gråt inte för mig jag har vi.
--- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)

Hello Dan,

On Monday March 25 2019 21:48, you wrote to me:

So much for "moving forward"...

Well, to be fair, I have never said a single word about "moving
forward" with IPv6.

True, you never specifically mentioned IPv6, but you were /very/ vocal about "moving forward" in general. From FTA-1000.002, §1:

2. Encouraging new technologies in Fidonet software development.

Promoting IPv6 is in line with that.

I don't think the subject is extrememly relevant to the previous discussions in here about moving Fido forward.

Fidonet is irrelevant in the greater scheme of things. If the plug on Fidonet were pulled tonight, the sun would still rise next morning. Relevancy is irrelevant. This is a hobby. A hobby is about doing things that one enjoys, not
about things relevant.

It's not IPv4 which is hindering FidoNet in any way.

The exhaustion of the IPv4 address pool is already affecting those running servers in some parts of the world. Some ISPs in Europe have started issuing a DS-Lite connection to new customers. That means they have no public IPv4 address. Fidonet involves running servers and so it will be a matter of time before it affects Fidonet.

I have been promoting IPv6 in Fidonet for about a decade now. Not because I felt a compelling need, but because I found it interesting and I enjoyed exploring the technology. With moderate success. Considering that there is a lot of inertia in Fidonet, 77 active nodes supporting IPv6 is not overwhelming,
but it is not bad either.

You want Fidonet to move forward. You run into a lot of opposition. Promoting Ipv6 is my hobby horse. That is also moving forward. We have that in common. Where IPv6 differs from what you have addressed so far is that moving your system towards IPv6 can be done without any cooperation or even against the opposition of the powers that be. You do not need the fiat of your NC, RC or ZC. Or that of the FTSC, the NAB, the Fidonews editor or whoever has a say in whatever in Fidonet. All that is needed to make this step forward is that you make some changes to your own system. The only thing in Fidonet, that you and only you are Lord and Master of. Look at it from a pragmatic POV. If you want to move forward, this is what you can do tomorow.

The first step would be to join us in the IPv6 echo. That is
where the expertise is. It is available at your uplink.

I'll inquire about it. Thanks.

See you there...

Cheers, Michiel

---
* Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)

I'd like to ask a question, without any preconceived opinions or otherwise: move Fidonet forward... where? I mean, the network as such isn't exactly growing, the technology is more or less based on the same stuff as 10-20 years ago (which is fine by me) if you don't include Binkd as one example, the arguing and the politics are still the same as always.

I say Fidonet isn't going anywhere. it will remain the same until the last person leaving shuts off the light. Not to say that things can't *improve*, such as removing certain people in power who abuse that power or maybe merge all zones into one since it's pretty fucking silly to have all these zones, networks and whatnot as if Fidonet will suddenly grow to 20000 BBS:es again. If Fidonet is to stand a fighting chance to survive it needs to be a friendlier
place, a more accessible place. Have a look at how easy you can join FSXNet, how welcoming that network is and how friendly the atmosphere there are... and compare it to this network who yells to every newcomer to get off it's lawn.

So maybe I failed to not have opinions but I care deeply about this stuff.

And no - I will not discuss this in Fidonews, which is the dung heap of Fidonet.


--- NiKom v2.5.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:201/120.0)

On 26 Mar 19 19:38:07, Joacim Melin said the following to Michiel Van Der Vlist

Joacim,

I say Fidonet isn't going anywhere. it will remain the same until the last person leaving shuts off the light. Not to say that things can't *improve*, such as removing certain people in power who abuse that power or maybe merg all zones into one since it's pretty fucking silly to have all these zones, networks and whatnot as if Fidonet will suddenly grow to 20000 BBS:es again

The point you and others fail to realise is that having one-zone will not magically transform Fido into some wonderful friendly utopia... Othernets work good because of content, not because they are one zone.

Please cite for me "people in power who abuse that power"... and be specific.

There are no more zone-wars, no more my zone is better than yours, the Nab is largely irrelevant now thanks to the FidoWeb.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

+1

--- FMail-W32 2.0.1.4
* Origin: Modern Pascal, LLC. (1:275/362.0)

Hey Michiel!

2. Encouraging new technologies in Fidonet software development.
Promoting IPv6 is in line with that.

Al draagt een aap een gouden ring, het is en blijft een lelijk ding.

What do the ipv6 gurus think about your obsolete datetime stamp and your corrupted TZUTC kludge dealie? I am willing to bet they are both verboden. ;-)

Life is good,
Maurice

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

On 2019-03-26 12:30:46 +0000, Michiel van der Vlist -> Dan Clough said:

I have been promoting IPv6 in Fidonet for about a decade now. Not
because I felt a compelling need, but because I found it interesting
and I enjoyed exploring the technology. With moderate success.
Considering that there is a lot of inertia in Fidonet, 77 active nodes supporting IPv6 is not overwhelming, but it is not bad either.

I updated my AAAA records for exchangeBBS... but, I do not have an IPv6 enabled
VPS environment...

:-)

--
.. Ozz Nixon
... Author ExchangeBBS (suite)
.... Since 1983 BBS Developer

--- FMail-W32 2.0.1.4
* Origin: ExchangeBBS WHQ (1:275/362.0)

Hi Ozz!

26 Mar 2019 18:48, from Ozz Nixon -> Michiel van der Vlist:

I updated my AAAA records for exchangeBBS...
but, I do not have an IPv6 enabled VPS environment...

??? I do not understand.
VPS as in virtual private server?
And if it is not IPv6 enabled why did you add a AAAA record??
It is utterly pointless and misleading.

fido@vserv:~$ host exchangebbs.com
exchangebbs.com has address 50.63.13.245
exchangebbs.com has IPv6 address 2001:470:1f18:12d::2
exchangebbs.com mail is handled by 0 mail.exchangebbs.com.
fido@vserv:~$ ping6 -c 1 2001:470:1f18:12d::2
PING 2001:470:1f18:12d::2(2001:470:1f18:12d::2) 56 data bytes

-+- 2001:470:1f18:12d::2 ping statistics ---
1 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 0ms

fido@vserv:~$ nmap -6 2001:470:1f18:12d::2 -Pn

Starting Nmap 6.47 ( http://nmap.org ) at 2019-04-07 12:49 CEST
Nmap scan report for tunnel528378-pt.tunnel.tserv1.phx2.ipv6.he.net (2001:470:1f18:12d::2)
Host is up (0.14s latency).
Not shown: 993 filtered ports
PORT STATE SERVICE
25/tcp closed smtp
6666/tcp closed irc
6667/tcp closed irc
6668/tcp closed irc
6669/tcp closed irc
7000/tcp closed afs3-fileserver
9999/tcp closed abyss

Nmap done: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 13.52 seconds

CU, Ricsi

... Does history record any case in which the majority was right? -Heinlein
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Santa's Rules #16: Never feed your reindeer chili! (2:310/31)

Hi Michiel!

28 Mar 2019 00:45, from Michiel van der Vlist -> Joacim Melin:

If FSXnet is so great, why are you here?

First ... it is not either or.
You can do both.
And sadly I am sure that you managed to tip the balance (in the wrong direction).

You come storming in out of nowhere and DEMAND that we old farts who
have been here for over a quarter of a century CHANGE so that Fidonet becomes an alternet for FSXnet?

Basically transforming a bit to a more inclusive place would be a good thing. Minus the obsessive focus on a buggy piece of BBS software and the missing atmosphere of constructive debate there. (Something that is much too strong here in Fidonet [minus the constructive part].)

Just my 2 cents.

CU, Ricsi

... Some thoughts are best guillotined before actions result!
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Humor is the shock absorber of life. (2:310/31)

... Minus the obsessive focus on a buggy piece of BBS software ...

Whichone might that be ?

Ward
--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
* Origin: Baby-Glacier (2:292/854.1)

Hi Ward!

07 Apr 2019 13:50, from Ward Dossche -> Richard Menedetter:

Minus the obsessive focus on a buggy piece of BBS software ...

Whichone might that be ?

I give you a hint ...
The creator of Fsxnet was asking for hints regarding a bug of said BBS software
regarding SEEN-BYs.

CU, Ricsi

... What is life, except excuse for death, or death but an escape from life. --- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: The mailman bringeth ... The trashmen taketh away! (2:310/31)

Good ${greeting_time}, Richard!

07 Apr 2019 12:50:14, you wrote to Ozz Nixon:

I updated my AAAA records for exchangeBBS...
but, I do not have an IPv6 enabled VPS environment...

??? I do not understand.
VPS as in virtual private server?

VPS stands for Virtual Private Space. That means containers like OpenVZ (mainstream Linux kernel has parts of it as control groups and namespaces).

When you need something resembling a server, that normally would be VDS - Virtual Dedicated Server, based on a hypervisor and thus capable of running almost any OS.

In order to have IPv6 in VPS, the host system must support it.
In order to have IPv6 in VDS, having a bridged interface is enough.


--
Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

... GPG: 8832FE9FA791F7968AC96E4E909DAC45EF3B1FA8 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
--- /bin/vi
* Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)