• Immigration then and now

    From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Sunday, September 04, 2022 11:12:00
    What was border security like in the 1880s when your family arrived in the US? Were the borders more, or less, open than they are now? How did that affect our national sovereignty? What was the driving force behind the change in border policy? Answer those questions correctly and I think you'll have a much more accurate understanding of "America First."

    Considering that most immigrants were coming across the Atlantic by boat...
    the boats would arrive and the immigrants would be processed through
    processing stations like Ellis Island, where the ship master would present paperwork that was supposed to account for each immigrating person aboard
    his ship. They were not all automatically accepted or "set loose" in NYC.
    Some where quaranteened for observation, others were turned away outright. Having a job already lined up, or relatives already in the country, was a
    plus.

    If someone crosses the southern border now, at a legal crossing point, they
    go through at least some of the same treatment. But not all of them cross
    at legal crossings, and not all of those that don't get caught. Apparently many of the legal ones do not have sponsors or jobs lined up. Otherwise,
    the government would have turned them over to said sponsors before the
    local governors got a chance to ask them if they want to travel to NYC, Chicago, DC, or another proclaimed "sanctuary city" and put them on a bus.

    Illegal immigration is a problem and does neet to be dealt with, but the solution to that problem should not be taken out on legal refugees.

    Similarly, illegal immigrants should not be lumped in with legal refugees
    as "refugees." You make a distiction here. Others often do not.


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  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Sunday, September 04, 2022 14:27:03
    On 04 Sep 2022, Mike Powell said the following...
    What was border security like in the 1880s when your family arrived in t US? Were the borders more, or less, open than they are now? How did that affect our national sovereignty? What was the driving force behind the c in border policy? Answer those questions correctly and I think you'll ha much more accurate understanding of "America First."
    Considering that most immigrants were coming across the Atlantic by boat... the boats would arrive and the immigrants would be processed through processing stations like Ellis Island, where the ship master
    would present paperwork that was supposed to account for each
    immigrating person aboard his ship. They were not all automatically accepted or "set loose" in NYC. Some where quaranteened for observation, others were turned away outright. Having a job already lined up, or relatives already in the country, was a plus.

    Was a visa required? Did arrival need to be pre-arranged in any way? Were people turned away by default unless they had reason to be here, or were they allowed in by default unless there was reason to believe that they should not be here?

    If someone crosses the southern border now, at a legal crossing point, they go through at least some of the same treatment.

    It's actually more stringent now.

    But not all of
    them cross at legal crossings, and not all of those that don't get
    caught.

    True. But the refugees who cross seeking asylum generally turn themselves in
    at the first opportunity. Their situation makes them seek out the authorities rather than avoid them. They are doing things the legal way.

    A big part of the anti-refugee propaganda is making them out to be illegal immigrants, which they are not.

    Apparently many of the legal ones do not have sponsors or jobs
    lined up.

    There are organizations that will sponsor them.

    Otherwise, the government would have turned them over to said
    sponsors before the local governors got a chance to ask them if they
    want to travel to NYC, Chicago, DC, or another proclaimed "sanctuary
    city" and put them on a bus.

    Organizations that will sponsor them are usually located in larger cities.

    I like how you threw "sanctuary city" in there. "Sanctuary cities" are distinguished by their treatment of illegal immigrants, not refugees. You've been brainwashed into thinking that refugees are illegal immigrants, when
    they are not.

    Illegal immigration is a problem and does neet to be dealt with, but the solution to that problem should not be taken out on legal refugees.
    Similarly, illegal immigrants should not be lumped in with legal refugees as "refugees." You make a distiction here. Others often do not.

    The Border Patrol also makes that distinction, and regularly deports illegal immigrants.

    Jeff.

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Monday, September 05, 2022 10:09:00
    But not all of
    them cross at legal crossings, and not all of those that don't get caught.

    True. But the refugees who cross seeking asylum generally turn themselves in at the first opportunity. Their situation makes them seek out the authorities rather than avoid them. They are doing things the legal way.

    A big part of the anti-refugee propaganda is making them out to be illegal immigrants, which they are not.

    For me it is the ease of being able to yell "asylum!" and suddenly be considered legal or potentially legal. If they really wanted asylum, they should have crossed at a legal checkpoint. If they are not, they are
    hoping not to encounter someone, although I am certain they know to act as
    if they were looking for that encounter all along should it happen.

    Maybe you are that naive.

    Apparently many of the legal ones do not have sponsors or jobs
    lined up.

    There are organizations that will sponsor them.

    In past, you told us they had to have sponsors lined up already. Which is
    it?

    Otherwise, the government would have turned them over to said
    sponsors before the local governors got a chance to ask them if they want to travel to NYC, Chicago, DC, or another proclaimed "sanctuary city" and put them on a bus.

    Organizations that will sponsor them are usually located in larger cities.

    I like how you threw "sanctuary city" in there. "Sanctuary cities" are distinguished by their treatment of illegal immigrants, not refugees. You've been brainwashed into thinking that refugees are illegal immigrants, when they are not.

    But there are no illegal immigrants that don't get turned away, right?

    The Border Patrol also makes that distinction, and regularly deports illegal immigrants.


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  • From Gregory Deyss@1:124/5014 to Jeff Thiele on Saturday, September 17, 2022 13:28:34
    On 04 Sep 2022, Jeff Thiele said the following...
    If someone crosses the southern border now, at a legal crossing
    point,
    SEEN-BY: 103/705 106/633 987 124/5013 5014 5015 5016 5017 5019 130/330 153/757 SEEN-BY: 154/10 19/38 203/0 218/840 220/70 221/0 226/17 229/426 240/5832 SEEN-BY: 2452/250 267/118 150 156 157 331 585 67 800 280/464 5003 292/8125 854 SEEN-BY: 301/1 310/31 341/234 66 387/21 25 26 396/45 423/120 633/280 712/848 SEEN-BY: 770/1 100 340 772/220 230
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Gregory Deyss on Saturday, September 17, 2022 12:36:14
    On 17 Sep 2022, Gregory Deyss said the following...
    If someone crosses the southern border now, at a legal crossing
    point,

    This appears to be an incomplete message.

    Jeff.

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  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Monday, September 05, 2022 22:55:39
    On 05 Sep 2022, Mike Powell said the following...
    But not all of
    them cross at legal crossings, and not all of those that don't get caught.
    True. But the refugees who cross seeking asylum generally turn themselve at the first opportunity. Their situation makes them seek out the author rather than avoid them. They are doing things the legal way.
    A big part of the anti-refugee propaganda is making them out to be illeg immigrants, which they are not.
    For me it is the ease of being able to yell "asylum!" and suddenly be considered legal or potentially legal. If they really wanted asylum,
    they should have crossed at a legal checkpoint. If they are not, they
    are hoping not to encounter someone, although I am certain they know to act as if they were looking for that encounter all along should it
    happen.

    Refugees seeking asylum go through a vetting process. Not all are allowed through.

    Maybe you are that naive.

    Or maybe you are.

    Apparently many of the legal ones do not have sponsors or jobs lined up.
    There are organizations that will sponsor them.
    In past, you told us they had to have sponsors lined up already. Which
    is it?

    It is a combination of both.

    Otherwise, the government would have turned them over to said sponsors before the local governors got a chance to ask them if the want to travel to NYC, Chicago, DC, or another proclaimed "sanctuar city" and put them on a bus.
    Organizations that will sponsor them are usually located in larger citie I like how you threw "sanctuary city" in there. "Sanctuary cities" are distinguished by their treatment of illegal immigrants, not refugees. Yo been brainwashed into thinking that refugees are illegal immigrants, whe they are not.
    But there are no illegal immigrants that don't get turned away, right?

    Absolutely there are.

    The Border Patrol also makes that distinction, and regularly deports ill immigrants.

    Jeff.

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Tuesday, September 06, 2022 17:54:00
    But not all of
    them cross at legal crossings, and not all of those that don't get
    caught.
    True. But the refugees who cross seeking asylum generally turn themselv
    at the first opportunity. Their situation makes them seek out the autho
    rather than avoid them. They are doing things the legal way.
    A big part of the anti-refugee propaganda is making them out to be ille
    immigrants, which they are not.
    For me it is the ease of being able to yell "asylum!" and suddenly be considered legal or potentially legal. If they really wanted asylum, they should have crossed at a legal checkpoint. If they are not, they are hoping not to encounter someone, although I am certain they know to act as if they were looking for that encounter all along should it happen.

    Refugees seeking asylum go through a vetting process. Not all are allowed through.

    Maybe you are that naive.

    Or maybe you are.

    If they don't cross at a legal checkpoint to make sure they encounter authorities to surrender to, they are not refugees. They only claim to be
    as part of pretending to turn themselves in when getting caught.

    That is not naive.

    Apparently many of the legal ones do not have sponsors or jobs lined up.
    There are organizations that will sponsor them.
    In past, you told us they had to have sponsors lined up already. Which is it?

    It is a combination of both.

    Not how you used to tell it when arguing with Aaron or Gregory. Thanks for clarifying that.


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  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Tuesday, September 06, 2022 17:55:25
    On 06 Sep 2022, Mike Powell said the following...
    If they don't cross at a legal checkpoint to make sure they encounter authorities to surrender to, they are not refugees. They only claim to
    be as part of pretending to turn themselves in when getting caught.

    I see. And that's why they don't even try to cross the wall, but know that
    they will be picked up on surveillance and that Border Patrol agents will
    come to them, escort them through the wall, load them onto buses, and take
    them to detention centers?

    That is not naive.

    Do you have evidence that "they only claim to be [refugees] as part of pretending to turn themselves in when getting caught?"

    Apparently many of the legal ones do not have sponsors or jo lined up.
    There are organizations that will sponsor them.
    In past, you told us they had to have sponsors lined up already. W is it?
    Not how you used to tell it when arguing with Aaron or Gregory. Thanks for clarifying that.

    Sponsors are available for them.

    Jeff.

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