• You've been lied to all your life!

    From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to All on Friday, March 03, 2023 11:36:24
    If you have just eleven minutes to spare, here's a real shocker for you:

    https://youtu.be/yAOWoV9_2SQ


    --

    In a democracy, uninformed people are dangerous people.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Björn Felten on Sunday, March 05, 2023 09:11:30
    On 03 Mar 2023, Bjrn Felten said the following...

    If you have just eleven minutes to spare, here's a real shocker for you:

    https://youtu.be/yAOWoV9_2SQ

    Watched it, not convinced in the slightest.

    When you made this post, you didn't really think that I would let this go w/out responding did you?

    As Thomas Sowell says,
    "Socialism sounds great. It has always sounded great.
    And it will probably always continue to sound great. It is only when you go beyond rhetoric, and start looking at hard facts, that socialism turns out to
    be a big disappointment, if not a disaster."

    In a democracy, uninformed people are dangerous people.
    "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margret Thatcher

    .______ Ŀ Ŀ Ŀ Ŀ ͻ Ŀ
    _[]_ij TROY HUB Fidonet FSX Net S I N C E Another Message
    { NET 267 NY 800 1:267/150 21:1/127 1 9 9 5 by Gregory / 0000'٨00٨00٨0000٨0000٨0000ͼ0000

    ... Anything is possible if you don't know what you're talking about

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * Telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Gregory Deyss on Sunday, March 05, 2023 20:58:10
    https://youtu.be/yAOWoV9_2SQ

    Watched it, not convinced in the slightest.

    I was not trying to convince anyone. I was trying to educate you.

    When you made this post, you didn't really think that I would let this
    go w/out responding did you?

    Of course not. But at least I expected the readers to at least contemplate if this is what you have been told about socialism.

    And it will probably always continue to sound great. It is only when you go beyond rhetoric, and start looking at hard facts, that socialism
    turns out to be a big disappointment, if not a disaster.

    And yet here I am, a living proof that it actually works and has been for more than a century.

    In a democracy, uninformed people are dangerous people.
    "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margret Thatcher

    Yeah, she really is someone to look up to. She caused more damage to the UK than her idol, the B-movie actor, did to the US.

    Do you really not understand that the opening words, "We the People", represented a new thought: the idea that the people and not the states were the source of the government's legitimacy?

    If *YOU* own all the important stuff, like health care system, housing system, public transportation system, banking system and so on, don't you think that would be better than now, when private multibillion dollar corporations own and reap the benefit from them, rather than you? Well, that's socialism in a nutshell.

    And here' another shocker for you: if you've understood the Gettysburg Address phrase: "government of the people, by the people, for the people" you would know that the government should be equal to *YOU* and not to a bunch of corrupt politicians governed by whomever have the millions to buy the best *for* *them* legislation.

    Finally, have you been told that e.g. in 2018 the average worth of one hour work by the US workers was $72.36? The difference between $7.25 and even $15 goes directly into the pockets of all the wealthy people that does not even pay reasonable taxes. Another disgrace that is being fixed in a socialist society...


    --

    In a democracy, uninformed people are dangerous people.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Monday, March 06, 2023 22:07:52
    Hello Bjrn,

    https://youtu.be/yAOWoV9_2SQ

    Watched it, not convinced in the slightest.

    I was not trying to convince anyone. I was trying to educate you.

    We don't need no education ...
    We don't need no thought control ...

    When you made this post, you didn't really think that I would let this
    go w/out responding did you?

    Of course not. But at least I expected the readers to at least contemplate if this is what you have been told about socialism.

    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2019/05/13/socialism-a-short
    -primer/


    The above is a short primer on how Americans view socialism.
    No paywall, and an easy read for even the most ardent MAGA idiots
    to understand.

    The polls cited was taken in 2018, showing two definitions and
    results from the year 1949 and 2018. The differences are notable.

    Socialism isn't more government. It's about democratic ownership
    and control. But MAGA idiots might not be capable of understanding
    that concept.

    Now think about this -

    What are the political implications of describing any form of
    government spending as socialism?

    And it will probably always continue to sound great. It is only when
    you go beyond rhetoric, and start looking at hard facts, that socialism
    turns out to be a big disappointment, if not a disaster.

    And yet here I am, a living proof that it actually works and has been for more than a century.

    The concept of socialism has been around for as long as man has walked
    this earth. But only in truly communitarian societies has it ever been
    remotely successful.

    In a democracy, uninformed people are dangerous people.
    "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other
    people's money." Margret Thatcher

    Yeah, she really is someone to look up to. She caused more damage to the UK
    than her idol, the B-movie actor, did to the US.

    Not even Boris Johnson could top her sinking a British battleship.
    And Reagan never could find a replacement for Bonzo.

    Do you really not understand that the opening words, "We the People", represented a new thought: the idea that the people and not the states were
    the source of the government's legitimacy?

    Kind of like "we the participants" in fidonet echoes.

    If *YOU* own all the important stuff, like health care system, housing system, public transportation system, banking system and so on, don't you think that would be better than now, when private multibillion dollar corporations own and reap the benefit from them, rather than you? Well, that's socialism in a nutshell.

    * medicare
    * social security
    * public schools
    * universities
    * community colleges
    * water supplies
    * sewers
    * mass transit systems

    All are, in a sense, socialist.

    Imagine what what happen if there was no garbage collection.
    Things would get very smelly around one's home ...

    And here' another shocker for you: if you've understood the Gettysburg Address phrase: "government of the people, by the people, for the people" you would know that the government should be equal to *YOU* and not to a bunch of corrupt politicians governed by whomever have the millions to buy the best *for* *them* legislation.

    Oh, come now. Everybody knows Lincoln copped that speech from General
    Lee and used it to his own advantage. I mean, the South had won almost
    every battle in The War until the battle at Gettysburg - only because
    some horses got stuck in the mud while making a charge. Which is why
    no sane Southerner ever names a kid Pickett.

    Finally, have you been told that e.g. in 2018 the average worth of one hour
    work by the US workers was $72.36? The difference between $7.25 and even $15 goes directly into the pockets of all the wealthy people that does not even pay reasonable taxes. Another disgrace that is being fixed in a socialist society...

    We ditched fiat money way back in 1861, and even had our own printing
    press in New Orleans ...

    The first socialist community in the USA was established in Louisiana,
    and had a population of a few hundred people. That was before the days
    of FDR, who decided to use that idea as the basis for his New Deal ...

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Nothing sucks like an Electrolux

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Gregory Deyss on Monday, March 06, 2023 22:07:58
    Hello Greg,

    As Thomas Sowell says,
    "Socialism sounds great. It has always sounded great.
    And it will probably always continue to sound great. It is only when you go
    beyond rhetoric, and start looking at hard facts, that socialism turns out to
    be a big disappointment, if not a disaster."

    In a democracy, uninformed people are dangerous people.

    "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's
    money." Margret Thatcher

    "The Labour Party is a Socialist Party, and proud of it ... Its
    ultimate purpose is the establishment of the Socialist Commonwealth
    of Great Britain."
    ~ British Labor Party election manifest, summer 1945

    Bill Clinton, Tony Blair, Gerhardt Schroeder, best friends forever.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    The more you play with it the harder it gets

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Björn Felten on Monday, March 06, 2023 21:18:04
    On 05 Mar 2023, Bjrn Felten said the following...

    https://youtu.be/yAOWoV9_2SQ

    Watched it, not convinced in the slightest.

    I was not trying to convince anyone. I was trying to educate you.

    You may be content with what you feel is socialism, but real socialism sucks. Over the past hundred years, there have been more than two dozen attempts to build a socialist society. It has been tried in the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, Albania, Poland, Vietnam, Bulgaria, Romania, Czechoslovakia, North Korea, Hungary, China, East Germany, Cuba, Tanzania, Laos, South Yemen, Somalia, the Congo, Ethiopia, Cambodia, Mozambique, Angola, Nicaragua and Venezuela, among others not counting the very short-lived ones. All of these attempts have ended in varying degrees of failure.

    Sweden does not tax the rich and give to the poor.
    People in Sweden who have a below of average income =$ 37,000 pay 60% in taxes. want proof?
    PBS Documentary by Johan Norberg (Swedish born) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lxD-gikpMs

    The Absurdity of Socialism
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpjCca9Beww

    Socialism Fails Every time
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmDBTHxYZ7Q

    Another video to avoid Democratic Socialism too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGURPuoXgW4

    So how are you going to educate anyone, when the truth about socialism is known that it is best to be avoided at all costs.

    .______ Ŀ Ŀ Ŀ Ŀ ͻ Ŀ
    _[]_ij TROY HUB Fidonet FSX Net S I N C E Another Message
    { NET 267 NY 800 1:267/150 21:1/127 1 9 9 5 by Gregory / 0000'٨00٨00٨0000٨0000٨0000ͼ0000

    ... What was the best thing before sliced bread?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * Telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Lee Lofaso on Tuesday, March 07, 2023 03:39:57
    The first socialist community in the USA was established in Louisiana,
    and had a population of a few hundred people. That was before the days
    of FDR, who decided to use that idea as the basis for his New Deal ...

    Well, that's too short of a version. The US was a socialist country all the way up to Reagan's years as a CA governor. When the protests against the Vietnam war started to emerge, especially in the CA Universities, he became desperate.

    "What will happen when more and more of the "proletariat" get educated? What if they actually learn the truth about matters?" By then higher education was still more or less free for all -- albeit women and black people were of course excluded, but still.

    So Reagan started by shutting down all the CA universities. And then he started the fight against free education. From thereon he was the champion of tuition fees, and the rest is the history of how the US stopped producing brilliant, thinking people. "We need more welders and less physicists" as one senator said.

    Now only the children from the ruling class can afford higher education. Mission accomplished: only the ones of "us" will be allowed.


    --

    In a democracy, uninformed people are dangerous people.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Gregory Deyss on Tuesday, March 07, 2023 04:47:47
    https://youtu.be/yAOWoV9_2SQ

    You may be content with what you feel is socialism, but real socialism sucks.

    Therein lies your problem, or shall I say lack of education.

    Over the past hundred years, there have been more than two dozen
    attempts to build a socialist society.

    Oh, there's much more than that. Almost all EU countries as well as NATO members (with one exception) are socialist countries.

    It has been tried in the Soviet
    Union, Yugoslavia, Albania, Poland, Vietnam, Bulgaria, Romania, Czechoslovakia, North Korea, Hungary, China, East Germany, Cuba,
    Tanzania, Laos, South Yemen, Somalia, the Congo, Ethiopia, Cambodia, Mozambique, Angola, Nicaragua and Venezuela, among others not counting
    the very short-lived ones. All of these attempts have ended in varying degrees of failure.

    Can you please reduce that list to what is/were true democracies? Or maybe you missed that important part of socialism?

    Sweden does not tax the rich and give to the poor.

    No, we don't give anything to anyone. But we pay taxes we know we'll get a lot of economic freedom in return. No extreme medical bills, no outrageous housing costs, free education, and so on, and so on.

    People in Sweden who have a below of average income =$ 37,000 pay 60% in taxes. want proof?

    LOL! I get about EUR28k in pension and I pay 24% in taxes. And since I have average (in Sweden) living costs, I still can save some EUR10k for a rainy day, adding to an already considerable bank account (I think it's something like EUR600k now) collected during my active days. How much can you save?

    It's not about how much taxes you pay, it's about how much of it you get in return. And that is not about money, it's about freedom. How much do you value *your* freedom?

    So how are you going to educate anyone, when the truth about socialism
    is known that it is best to be avoided at all costs.

    I admit, it's difficult, almost impossible, when trying to educate someone that is not able to step back and try to understand what I am saying, cock sure that he's right and never can be wrong.

    The Denning-Kruger effect:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect


    --

    In a democracy, uninformed people are dangerous people.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:124/5014 to Björn Felten on Tuesday, March 07, 2023 20:03:17
    On 07 Mar 2023, Bjrn Felten said the following...

    https://youtu.be/yAOWoV9_2SQ

    You may be content with what you feel is socialism, but real socialism
    sucks.

    Therein lies your problem, or shall I say lack of education.

    You're so indoctrinated, try thinking outside of the collective.
    As your usual your ridiculing me for what you feel is a lack of education
    when it is a fact that socialism has failed in all of the following countries Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, Albania, Poland, Vietnam, Bulgaria, Romania, Czechoslovakia, North Korea, Hungary, China, East Germany, Cuba, Tanzania, Laos, South Yemen, Somalia, the Congo, Ethiopia, Cambodia, Mozambique, Angola, Nicaragua and Venezuela.
    SEEN-BY: 103/705 106/633 987 124/5013 5014 5015 5016 5017 5019 130/330 153/757 SEEN-BY: 154/10 19/38 203/0 218/840 220/70 221/0 226/17 229/426 240/1120 5832 SEEN-BY: 267/118 150 156 157 331 585 67 800 280/464 5003 292/8125 854 301/1 SEEN-BY: 310/31 341/234 66 387/21 25 26 396/45 423/120 633/280 712/848 770/1 SEEN-BY: 770/100 340 772/220 230
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Gregory Deyss on Friday, March 10, 2023 00:36:39
    Therein lies your problem, or shall I say lack of education.

    I see. You never are able to read beyond the first line. Had you bothered to read on, you would have seen that I already dunked this 50yo myth by the capitalist huggers:

    when it is a fact that socialism has failed in all of the following countries
    Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, Albania, Poland, Vietnam, Bulgaria, Romania, Czechoslovakia, North Korea, Hungary, China, East Germany, Cuba,
    Tanzania, Laos, South Yemen, Somalia, the Congo, Ethiopia, Cambodia, Mozambique, Angola, Nicaragua and Venezuela.

    I rest my case. Next time, try to read beyond the first line.


    --

    In a democracy, uninformed people are dangerous people.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)