• Trump on Covid

    From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Aaron Thomas on Wednesday, June 17, 2020 01:25:00
    On 03-29-20 11:40, Aaron Thomas <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Obama's Closet <=-


    American people -- such as "It'll all be over in a few days". If Trump

    That's a big Anderson Cooper style leap from what Trump actually said. "We'll re-open America by Easter" is how I remember it.

    That did not happen did it. Perhaps you remember only what you want to
    hear. Here are a few other quotes with dates:

    [begin quotes]
    Jan. 20: First confirmed U.S. case of coronavirus announced in
    Washington state. Jan. 22: 1 case confirmed in U.S. "We do have a plan"

    "We do have a plan and we think it's gonna be handled very well, we've
    already handled it very well. President Trump to CBS News White House correspondent Paula Reid in Davos, Switzerland. Jan. 22: 1 case
    confirmed in U.S. "We have it under control"

    Feb. 7: 11 confirmed cases in U.S.
    With warmer weather "virus hopefully becomes weaker with warmer weather,
    and then gone"

    In February, when the federal government had confirmed just 15 cases of
    the virus, Mr. Trump predicted the number would soon be near "zero."

    "And again,
    when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to
    be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done," the
    president said during a Coronavirus Task Force Press briefing at the
    White House.

    Feb. 23: 51 confirmed cases in U.S.
    Situation is "very much under control"

    Feb. 26: 58 confirmed cases in U.S.
    The 15 cases in U.S. "within a couple days is going to be down close to zero"

    Feb. 27: 60 confirmed cases in U.S.
    Virus will "disappear" one day "like a miracle"

    "It's going to disappear. One day it's like a miracle, it will
    disappear," the president said during a White House meeting with African-American leaders.

    Feb. 29: 74 confirmed cases in U.S.
    "Everything is really under control"

    March 6: 402 confirmed cases in U.S.
    "Anybody that wants a test can get a test"

    "Anybody that wants a test can get a test. ... The tests are all
    perfect, like the letter was perfect, the transcription was perfect,
    right?" CDC headquarters in Atlanta.

    March 9: 959 confirmed cases in U.S.
    Compares number of deaths caused by coronavirus and flu

    March 10: 1,300 confirmed cases in U.S.
    "Well, this was unexpected. This was something that came out of China,
    and it hit us and many other countries. You look at the numbers; I see
    the numbers with just by watching you folks. I see it it's over 100
    different countries. And it hit the world. And we're prepared, and we're
    doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will
    go away," the president said on Capitol Hill after meeting with
    Republican senators.

    March 16: 6,400 confirmed cases in U.S.
    Announces new social distancing guidelines, says outbreak could last
    until July or August

    "I've spoken actually with my son. He says, 'How bad is this?' It's bad.
    It's bad. But we're going to we're going to be, hopefully, a best
    case, not a worst case. And that's what we're working for." "They think
    August, it could be July," he said at a press briefing Monday, referring
    to members of the White House task force. "Could be longer than that."
    White House Coronavirus Task Force briefing.

    March 24: 65,800 confirmed cases in U.S.

    "I would love to have the country opened up and just raring to go by
    Easter," the president said of easing social distancing guidelines in
    parts of the country." "I think Easter Sunday you'll have packed
    churches all over our country." Fox News town hall.

    March 24: 65,800 confirmed cases in U.S.

    "We begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel"

    [end quotes]

    And the beat goes on. Fast forward to mid June with more than 2 million
    cases and more than 119 thousand deaths. The number of active cases is
    not going down -- it is level over all, but peaking in those states who followed Trump's advice to open up.

    The truth is that Trump never had a plan, he reacted. And now he has
    even withdrawn from doing anything. He will soon hold a campaign rally
    in Tulsa with perhaps 20,000 people close packed, not wearing masks, and spraying all over each other. I predict that by early July, we will
    hear that more than 1,000 of those people have come down with Covid-19
    and that then many of them will die. This is not how a true leader
    acts. It is how a narcissistic person acts who cares nothing about
    others, only about what affects himself.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:46:52, 17 Jun 2020
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Dale Shipp on Wednesday, June 17, 2020 10:43:52
    Re: Trump on Covid
    By: Dale Shipp to Aaron Thomas on Wed Jun 17 2020 01:25:00


    Jan. 20: First confirmed U.S. case of coronavirus announced in
    Washington state.

    1st confirmed case, yes... but the virus was here in the states for likely two or three months already... it just wasn't recognized for what it was :(


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:267/150 to Dale Shipp on Wednesday, June 17, 2020 21:52:12
    acts. It is how a narcissistic person acts who cares nothing about others, only about what affects himself.

    I think you're under CNN's spell. Trump blabbed about how the virus was under control, he was wrong, but he was optimistic. But what did you want him to
    say? That we're all gonna die? That wouldn't have been very presidential.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A44 2020/02/04 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Aaron Thomas on Thursday, June 18, 2020 01:02:00
    On 06-17-20 21:52, Aaron Thomas <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Trump on Covid <=-


    acts. It is how a narcissistic person acts who cares nothing about others, only about what affects himself.

    I think you're under CNN's spell. Trump blabbed about how the virus
    was under control, he was wrong, but he was optimistic. But what did
    you want him to say? That we're all gonna die? That wouldn't have been very presidential.

    I would have expected him to be Presidential, instead he was
    self-serving by saying the fantasy tales that bolstered his image
    instead of saying the truth. He would have known the truth if he had
    listened to the expert opinions of the scientists who knew what they
    were talking about.

    The virus was not under control when he said that and he should have
    known it. It is not under control even now months later.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:31:23, 18 Jun 2020
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Aaron Thomas on Thursday, June 18, 2020 20:49:36
    Hello Aaron,

    acts. It is how a narcissistic person acts who cares nothing about
    others, only about what affects himself.

    I think you're under CNN's spell. Trump blabbed about how the virus was under
    control, he was wrong, but he was optimistic. But what did you want him to say? That we're all gonna die? That wouldn't have been very presidential.

    Donald Trump is planning to have a campaign rally inside a huge
    building housing 20,000 lunatics screaming their lungs out in
    Tulsa, Oklahoma this coming Saturday. As a result of this stunt,
    many people will die, maybe even including Trump himself.

    Presidential leadership at its best. Trump-style. Attend rally
    at your own risk. No masks allowed.

    --Lee

    --
    In solidarity - RIP George Floyd - Black Lives Matter

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to DALE SHIPP on Thursday, June 18, 2020 13:40:00
    I would have expected him to be Presidential, instead he was
    self-serving by saying the fantasy tales that bolstered his image
    instead of saying the truth. He would have known the truth if he had listened to the expert opinions of the scientists who knew what they
    were talking about.

    Do you include the World Health Organization in your list of "experts"?
    During the time frames you mention, they were still telling everyone that human-to-human spread was not likely and that closing borders to keep the
    virus out was not necessary. They were also telling us not to wear masks.

    Do you think Obama would have ignored the WHO guidance and done what we now know is the right thing? As tight as he was with the UN I sure don't think
    so.

    Anytime I ever watched Trump speak, he would make what I thought was an over-optimistic statement followed by an "if the scientists say it is OK"
    type statement. Then later the medical pros at the presser would talk and
    give a less-optimistic outlook. To me, none of us should be following the health advice of any President unless they were a doctor before being
    elected. To me, it went like it should... he made an opening statement then let the doctors talk and tell us how things really are.

    I know Trump used such a disclaimer at the "open by Easter" presser.
    Everybody went nuts over that but all of them left out the "if they say it
    is OK" bit when they were replaying it on their newscasts.

    Mike


    * SLMR 2.1a * Go softly....it's dark out there
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to Dale Shipp on Thursday, June 18, 2020 18:52:28
    Dale Shipp wrote to Aaron Thomas <=-

    I would have expected him to be Presidential, instead he was
    self-serving by saying the fantasy tales that bolstered his image
    instead of saying the truth. He would have known the truth if he had listened to the expert opinions of the scientists who knew what they
    were talking about.

    But they didn't know what they were talking about. They were lying and they knew it. They still passed that "information" on as gospel.

    Dr. Fauci said in an interview with "The Street" a few days ago that he delibrately lied about masks not working against COVID-19 infection so they could hoard the masks that were available for health workers.

    So much for trusting government officials, eh? Especially ones who are proven liars.

    Trump, and many others in his administration, were going solely on the information they were given. He was given false information by people with other interests and you want to hold his feet to the fire?

    Later,
    Sean


    ___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

    --- Maximus/2 3.01
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (1:18/200)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to Lee Lofaso on Thursday, June 18, 2020 18:54:30
    Lee Lofaso wrote to Aaron Thomas <=-

    Presidential leadership at its best. Trump-style. Attend rally
    at your own risk. No masks allowed.

    You're masterbating furiously about Trump dying, aren't you?

    Well, you're always verbally masturbating in here, so that's nothing new.

    Later,
    Sean
    (who knows who Lee really is but won't spoil the open secret)


    ___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

    --- Maximus/2 3.01
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (1:18/200)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to Mike Powell on Thursday, June 18, 2020 18:58:32
    Mike Powell wrote to DALE SHIPP <=-

    I know Trump used such a disclaimer at the "open by Easter" presser. Everybody went nuts over that but all of them left out the "if they say
    it is OK" bit when they were replaying it on their newscasts.

    Liberals take everything Trump says out-of-context deliberately with deceptive quoting and/or editing to make them look good.

    When the truth comes out, they're nowhere to be found. Instead they're moving on to their next lie.

    The left is busy trying to distract everyone while trying to erase their past right now because the political left in the US is starting to lose its foundation. The more they try to act in desperation to save themselves, the deeper their grave becomes.

    It's entertaining to watch them melt because it just shows what kind of people they are.

    You only see riots, vandalism, et cetera happening in liberal-controlled areas.

    Anywhere else, these idiots would be shot on sight.

    Later,
    Sean


    ___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

    --- Maximus/2 3.01
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (1:18/200)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Mike Powell on Friday, June 19, 2020 11:10:47
    Hello Mike,

    I would have expected him to be Presidential, instead he was
    self-serving by saying the fantasy tales that bolstered his image
    instead of saying the truth. He would have known the truth if he had
    listened to the expert opinions of the scientists who knew what they
    were talking about.

    Do you include the World Health Organization in your list of "experts"? During the time frames you mention, they were still telling everyone that human-to-human spread was not likely and that closing borders to keep the virus out was not necessary. They were also telling us not to wear masks.

    Do you think Obama would have ignored the WHO guidance and done what we now
    know is the right thing? As tight as he was with the UN I sure don't think
    so.

    President Obama did put into place a pandemic team. But he left it
    severely underfunded, as Bill Gates noted in 2015. It was later
    disbanded after Trump took office, and was never replaced. The CDC
    has been gutted due to lack of funds, and is unable to act in the
    way it should.

    Anytime I ever watched Trump speak, he would make what I thought was an over-optimistic statement followed by an "if the scientists say it is OK" type statement.

    Trump is an actor, a celebrity. Not a doctor or medical expert.
    As such, do not expect him to be a leader. That is something he
    is not capable of, as all his actions have clearly been shown
    to have been reactionary.

    Every time he tries to take the initiative, he is ridiculed.
    The ideas he comes up with are just too outlandish for anybody
    to take seriously. He did great as an entertainer on reality
    television, but selling fake news as president is not what
    anybody wants or appreciates.

    Then later the medical pros at the presser would talk and give a less-optimistic outlook.

    Dr. Fauci has served under six presidents, both Democrat and
    Republican. He seems to be a straight-shooter who sides with
    no particular party. Same with Dr. Birx and other medical
    professionals.

    To me, none of us should be following the health advice of any President unless they were a doctor before being elected.

    Dr. Howard Dean might have been an exception, had he been elected.

    To me, it went like it should... he made an opening statement then
    let the doctors talk and tell us how things really are.

    Trump did not bother asking any doctors about self-medicating
    himself with questionable drugs (or shining ultraviolet light inside
    his own body).

    The last time the US had a doctor of any kind as president
    was a hundred years ago. Woodwrow Wilson, the only president
    in history with a PhD. Not only did he get the US involved
    in a world war, but he also gave us the Spanish Flu.

    With only a few more months left in office, let's all hope Trump
    does not get us involved in another world war. As it is, we have
    already had two. Not sure if anybody will survive a third.

    --Lee

    --
    Say it loud! Say it clear! / Refugees are welcome here!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Lee Lofaso on Friday, June 19, 2020 07:36:00
    Lee Lofaso wrote to Aaron Thomas <=-


    I think you're under CNN's spell. Trump blabbed about how the
    virus was under control, he was wrong, but he was optimistic. But
    what did you want him to say? That we're all gonna die? That
    wouldn't have been very presidential.

    Most people are more concerned with his actions. In the early stages,
    he was either a) completely naive to the potential of the virus, or b)
    overly concerned with the optics of acknowledging the virus and the
    effect on the ecomony and the effect on his polling numbers if he
    acted swiftly and decisively, or c) aware of the implications of the
    virus and his actions and leadership were ineffective.

    Presidential leadership at its best. Trump-style. Attend rally
    at your own risk. No masks allowed.

    Literally "at your own risk". Did you see the waivers people have to
    sign?



    ... It is simply a matter of work
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Mike Powell on Friday, June 19, 2020 07:55:00
    Mike Powell wrote to DALE SHIPP <=-

    Do you include the World Health Organization in your list of "experts"? During the time frames you mention, they were still telling everyone
    that human-to-human spread was not likely and that closing borders to
    keep the virus out was not necessary. They were also telling us not to wear masks.

    To be accurate, they were telling people not to wear PPE.

    Do you think Obama would have ignored the WHO guidance and done what we now know is the right thing?

    Please clarify what "we now know is the right thing" and who "we"
    are.

    To me, it went like it should... he made an
    opening statement then let the doctors talk and tell us how things
    really are.

    They felt more like 45 minutes to an hour of campaigning - including
    criticizing China, Joe Biden, the Congress, democratic governors
    (hundreds of them!) the democratic party and others, then 15 minutes of
    Coronavirus updates with misleading reports of the number of PPE and
    tests manufactured and administered, followed by counterpoints by
    Drs. Fauci, Brix and the rest of the administration.

    I know Trump used such a disclaimer at the "open by Easter" presser. Everybody went nuts over that but all of them left out the "if they say
    it is OK" bit when they were replaying it on their newscasts.

    None of the experts thought that opening by Easter was feasible, so
    that had to be a bit of a gaffe.


    ... Is the intonation correct?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Sean Dennis on Friday, June 19, 2020 07:57:00
    Sean Dennis wrote to Dale Shipp <=-

    Trump, and many others in his administration, were going solely on the information they were given. He was given false information by people with other interests and you want to hold his feet to the fire?

    Yes. It's called accountability. Despite claiming no responsibility at
    all, the buck stops with him. That's how leadership works.



    ... Is the intonation correct?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Sean Dennis on Friday, June 19, 2020 10:04:00
    Sean Dennis wrote to Lee Lofaso <=-

    (who knows who Lee really is but won't spoil the open secret)

    We're just all green text on a black screen here.



    ... Is the intonation correct?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Sean Dennis on Friday, June 19, 2020 10:05:00
    Sean Dennis wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    Liberals take everything Trump says out-of-context deliberately with deceptive quoting and/or editing to make them look good.

    When the truth comes out, they're nowhere to be found. Instead they're moving on to their next lie.

    It's the same on the other side of the fence.



    ... Is the intonation correct?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Kurt Weiske on Friday, June 19, 2020 23:37:41
    Hello Kurt,

    I think you're under CNN's spell. Trump blabbed about how the
    virus was under control, he was wrong, but he was optimistic. But
    what did you want him to say? That we're all gonna die? That
    wouldn't have been very presidential.

    Most people are more concerned with his actions. In the early stages,
    he was either a) completely naive to the potential of the virus, or b) overly concerned with the optics of acknowledging the virus and the
    effect on the ecomony and the effect on his polling numbers if he
    acted swiftly and decisively, or c) aware of the implications of the
    virus and his actions and leadership were ineffective.

    The president gets his daily briefings. Whether he actually listens
    or believes a word of what he has been told remains an open question.

    Presidential leadership at its best. Trump-style. Attend rally
    at your own risk. No masks allowed.

    Literally "at your own risk".

    Their choice.

    Did you see the waivers people have to sign?

    https://twitter.com/Kevinliptakcnn/status/1271191270434758656


    Yes.

    I wonder if the folks in Phoenix will also have to sign a similar
    waiver? Remember, Tulsa is just the president's first act for this
    campaign season ...

    --Lee

    --
    Hey hey! Ho ho! Donald Trump has got to go!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to LEE LOFASO on Friday, June 19, 2020 18:28:00
    Trump is an actor, a celebrity. Not a doctor or medical expert.
    As such, do not expect him to be a leader. That is something he
    is not capable of, as all his actions have clearly been shown
    to have been reactionary.

    The US has not had a doctor or medical expert as President in my lifetime.
    I guess that means we've had no leaders, either.

    Then later the medical pros at the presser would talk and give a less-optimistic outlook.

    Dr. Fauci has served under six presidents, both Democrat and
    Republican. He seems to be a straight-shooter who sides with
    no particular party. Same with Dr. Birx and other medical
    professionals.

    Agreed. Being doctors, I look to them for medical opinions, not the
    President or a presidential candidate or a former President.

    Trump did not bother asking any doctors about self-medicating
    himself with questionable drugs (or shining ultraviolet light inside
    his own body).

    The press has said that is a questionable drug. Some research indicates
    that it is effective for some patients.

    The last time the US had a doctor of any kind as president
    was a hundred years ago. Woodwrow Wilson, the only president
    in history with a PhD. Not only did he get the US involved
    in a world war, but he also gave us the Spanish Flu.

    Was his PhD in medicine? I have a relative with a PhD in law. I would not trust her for medical advice.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Keep in mind transmogrification is new technology.
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to KURT WEISKE on Friday, June 19, 2020 18:30:00
    I know Trump used such a disclaimer at the "open by Easter" presser. Everybody went nuts over that but all of them left out the "if they say it is OK" bit when they were replaying it on their newscasts.

    None of the experts thought that opening by Easter was feasible, so
    that had to be a bit of a gaffe.

    If I say "if the doctor says it is OK" then the doctor does not say it is
    OK, how is that a gaffe?


    * SLMR 2.1a * My one-legged sister is a professional ice skater.
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Mike Powell on Saturday, June 20, 2020 03:19:00
    On 06-18-20 13:40, Mike Powell <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Trump on Covid <=-

    I would have expected him to be Presidential, instead he was
    self-serving by saying the fantasy tales that bolstered his image
    instead of saying the truth. He would have known the truth if he had listened to the expert opinions of the scientists who knew what they
    were talking about.

    Do you include the World Health Organization in your list of
    "experts"?

    TTTT, I don't really know if they are political or scientific. The
    scientific people I was referring to were the doctors and nurses on the
    front lines and the experts in the CDC.

    During the time frames you mention, they were still telling
    everyone that human-to-human spread was not likely

    Perhaps they said that in the very beginnings, i.e. January. But
    The first documented case of person to person transmission was in
    January.


    and that closing borders to keep the virus out was not necessary.

    Did they say "to keep the virus out was not necessary" or did they say
    "it is too late for closing borders -- the virus is already here"?

    They were also telling us not to wear masks.

    They were telling us not to buy the N95 masks which are in critical
    supply by first line workers.

    Do you think Obama would have ignored the WHO guidance and done what
    we now know is the right thing? As tight as he was with the UN I sure don't think so.

    What Obama might or might not have done is not at issue. He did not
    have to face COVID. BUT, if he had -- I doubt that he would have passed
    the buck the way that Trump has done, that is a personal opinion only.

    Anytime I ever watched Trump speak, he would make what I thought was
    an over-optimistic statement followed by an "if the scientists say it
    is OK" type statement.

    A. that is not true, at least not until later. When he said "it is only
    15 cases and will soon be down to 0", he deferred to no one. Ditto for
    several of his later comments.
    B. He should have gotten the medical opinion before blurting out his
    fake news.

    Then later the medical pros at the presser
    would talk and give a less-optimistic outlook.

    They also could be visibly seen biting their tongues.

    To me, none of us
    should be following the health advice of any President unless they were
    a doctor before being elected.

    On that, we can easily agree. It does not account for the fact that
    many people are taking his advice and following his example -- to their
    peril.

    To me, it went like it should... he
    made an opening statement then let the doctors talk and tell us how
    things really are.

    He should have simply introduced the doctors and let them tell us how
    things are without making contradictory statements to diminish the
    doctors effect.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 02:25:18, 20 Jun 2020
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Sean Dennis on Saturday, June 20, 2020 03:17:02
    On 06-18-20 18:52, Sean Dennis <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Trump on Covid <=-

    Dr. Fauci said in an interview with "The Street" a few days ago that
    he delibrately lied about masks not working against COVID-19 infection
    so they could hoard the masks that were available for health workers.

    Give us a direct quote for that. What I read is that he did not
    recommend the general public obtaining masks in the beginning out of
    concerns of them hoarding the type of masks critically needed as PPE by frontline medical people. The type of cloth mask now in general public
    use does not protect you from getting infected as much as it helps you
    from infecting others. When such masks became available, he and others recommended using them (*NOT* the N95 masks) to help reduce the spread.
    OTOH -- Trump is active in discouraging people from wearing masks and
    from exercising social distance measures. He sets the example for that
    by his actions.

    So much for trusting government officials, eh? Especially ones who
    are proven liars.

    True -- I do not trust anything Trump says for that very reason.

    Trump, and many others in his administration, were going solely on the information they were given. He was given false information by people with other interests and you want to hold his feet to the fire?

    Trump only listens to Fox News and his own gut.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 02:36:01, 20 Jun 2020
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to Kurt Weiske on Saturday, June 20, 2020 20:32:24
    Kurt Weiske wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

    Yes. It's called accountability. Despite claiming no responsibility at all, the buck stops with him. That's how leadership works.

    You cannot expect someone like the president to know everything about everything.

    Trump listens and trusts his advisors, even if they're wrong. He isn't like Mr. "I have a pen and a phone" Obama who thought he was king and who is still trying to destroy this country from behind the scenes.

    If liberals weren't trying to oust Trump, we could've gotten a jump on this, but no, they were all having a massive circle jerk about Trump and ignoring the pandemic in January and February.

    You want to talk about leadership? Look at the mess that the House of Representatives is.

    Hell, back when y'all controlled Congress and had the Presidency, you still couldn't get anything done.

    Don't talk to me about leadership. Take a look at the idiots you're voting into office and what they've done for you.

    Not a damn thing.

    Let's not forget that Drs. Fauci and Birx are both avowed liberals with ties to big Pharma, George Soros, and other unsavory organizations.

    So, how about that leadership now, Kurt? When the liberal expets are caught lying to the country?

    What say you?

    Later,
    Sean


    ... 90% of being smart is knowing what you're dumb at.
    ___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

    --- Maximus/2 3.01
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (1:18/200)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to Kurt Weiske on Saturday, June 20, 2020 20:35:26
    Kurt Weiske wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

    We're just all green text on a black screen here.

    Some are cowards hiding behind keyboards.

    That's still no excuse to be a liar.

    Some people think they can be threatening--much like how Bjorn doxxed a Swedish Fidonet sysop and physically threatened him--but in here, people like that just prove that they are both cowards and fools.

    That's what a twit filter is for.

    I come here to relax and talk politics, not to listen to some bullheaded socialist try to act like he's from Louisiana and show off the fact that English is a second language for him.

    Later,
    Sean


    ... You learn something useless every day.
    ___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

    --- Maximus/2 3.01
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (1:18/200)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to Kurt Weiske on Saturday, June 20, 2020 20:48:28
    Kurt Weiske wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

    It's the same on the other side of the fence.

    Not when liberals control the mainstream media and groupthink.

    CNN has been caught several times outright lying about Trump and has been proven to do so publicly.

    Not a peep from you or other liberals standing up for the truth.

    CNN has been called out several times by Trump and his press secretary for their deceptive editing of Trump speaking and other videos (the white child chasing after the black child video comes to mind; they didn't show the first two minutes of the video which showed the children hugging). In fact, they were called out again on it today.

    Jim Acosta is aptly named. He seems to enjoy accosting people though not in an honorable sense; more like "I want attention1' sense. Personally, I think he gets paid enough to put aside any morals or scruples he has to make an ass out of himself on TV.

    Where's the rest of the mainstream media calling for journalistic integrity?

    You're right, not a peep. Because there isn't any.

    I can cite many examples of lefty media lying. Can you cite any right-wing examples?

    Now I know you're from California, the land of the bleeding-heart liberal (though it never used to be). I also know you to be an intelligent person whom I respect.

    I can't wrap my head why you want to toe the loony liberal line.

    Anyhow, no, the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence, no matter how much you might think it is.

    Later,
    Sean


    ... Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film.
    ___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

    --- Maximus/2 3.01
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (1:18/200)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to Dale Shipp on Saturday, June 20, 2020 22:07:30
    Dale Shipp wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

    Give us a direct quote for that. What I read is that he did not
    recommend the general public obtaining masks in the beginning out of concerns of them hoarding the type of masks critically needed as PPE by frontline medical people.

    People don't always say what they want to directly, Dale. You should know this from your previous employer. Fauci admitted to lying without being direct to save his own ass.

    He has said that a mask was ineffective against COVID-19 ... which he was later proven to be right (see second article in this message).

    Here is a very good explanation of this mess from a fantastically liberal organization (if I'd gotten the article from a right-wing site, you'd never believed me).

    So here's some enlightening reading about how Fauci lied by omission (I know that's a foreign concept to liberals, but you'll come around).

    I've spent some time making sure links were kept in these articles for your further research.

    From: https://tinyurl.com/y8lm65ek

    ===
    Dr. Fauci Made the Coronavirus Pandemic Worse by Lying About Masks


    Dr. Anthony Fauci has been hailed as a hero during the coronavirus
    pandemic, delivering thoughtful health advice while most members of the
    Trump regime have spread misinformation about covid-19. But there's one
    area where Fauci let America down, hindering the public health response
    and giving the U.S. both the highest coronavirus case count and the worst
    recorded death toll in the world. Simply put, Fauci lied about whether
    masks were helpful in slowing the spread of the virus.

    Fauci was asked yesterday by financial news outlet [66]The Street why the
    U.S. government didn't promote masks early on during the pandemic. Fauci,
    who sits on the Trump regime's [67]zombie-like coronavirus task force,
    hinted that he knew masks worked, he just wanted any available masks to be
    saved for health care workers.

    "Well, the reason for that is that we were concerned the public health
    community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at
    a time when personal protective equipment, including the N-95 masks and
    the surgical masks, were in very short supply," Fauci said. "And we wanted
    to make sure that the people, namely the health care workers, who were
    brave enough to put themselves in a harm way, to take care of people who
    you know were infected with the coronavirus and the danger of them getting
    infected."

    Fauci didn't just fail to promote masks early on, he actively discouraged
    the use of masks, saying they didn't work. Americans are now paying the
    price because too many people think masks are useless to combat the
    coronavirus. In reality, masks have been shown to help prevent the spread
    of covid-19, as the CDC now [68]admits.

    All we need to do is look at the things that Fauci was saying back in
    February-a time before most Americans were taking the threat of covid-19
    seriously and people like Donald Trump were assuming it was just a problem
    for the Chinese government.

    "There is no reason for anyone right now in the United States, with regard
    to coronavirus, to wear a mask," Fauci told Spectrum News DC on
    [73]February 14.

    It was something that Fauci would say repeatedly whenever he gave
    interviews in February, as the pandemic spread to countries like Germany,
    Italy, South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan. And Fauci may not have known it
    yet, but coronavirus was also spreading quickly in the U.S. By the end of
    February, over [74]20 countries had identified the coronavirus within
    their borders.

    Despite being remembered as level-headed during the early days of the
    crisis in the U.S., Fauci was incredibly slow to publicly recognize the
    threat from coronavirus. On [75]February 17, he recalled stories of people
    asking whether it was safe to travel, ridiculing the idea that it might
    not be wise to get on a plane. But it was clear to anyone paying attention
    to news media outside of the U.S. that the coronavirus would soon be an
    international problem.

    First, a quick lesson in recent history: Human-to-human transmission of
    the novel coronavirus was confirmed on January 21, Chinese leader Xi
    Jinping said publicly that the health crisis from coronavirus "must be
    taken seriously," on [76]January 21, over 20 million people in China were
    put into lockdown on January 23, Disneyland locations in Hong Kong and
    Shanghai both closed in the last week of January, and countries like
    Australia were already setting up quarantine for some travelers in the
    first week of February. High school teachers returning to Australia from
    China were even giving classes by Zoom in early February, as Gizmodo
    reported [77]at the time.

    By mid-February, the pandemic in Italy had gotten so bad that hospitals
    were becoming overwhelmed and case counts were [78]rising exponentially.
    The Lombardy region of Italy went into lockdown and on [79]February 23
    grocery store shelves were stripped bare as people purchased food in a
    panic.

    With all of this going on around the world, February 17 was an incredibly
    late date to be making fun of people who were concerned about travel. But
    that's precisely what Fauci did in the pages of USA Today.

    "I was getting calls from people in Sacramento saying, `Can I get on an
    airplane to go to Seattle?'" Fauci told USA Today on [80]February 17.
    "Like, what? What does that got to do with anything?"

    We now know that the first identified American death from covid-19 was on
    [81]February 6 in San Jose, California. And because the CDC wasted the
    entire month of February with [82]faulty tests, no one knows just how
    widespread the disease already was in the U.S. during the first weeks of
    February. And it wasn't just in February that Fauci dismissed the threat.
    As late as March, Fauci was still insisting that masks were bad for public
    health.

    "There's no reason to be walking around with a mask," Fauci told 60
    Minutes on CBS during an interview that aired [83]March 8. "When you're in
    the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little
    bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it's not providing the
    perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are
    unintended consequences-people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep
    touching their face."

    It's no surprise that anti-mask advocates often use Fauci's interview with
    60 Minutes when they [84]try to discredit masks as an effective tool on
    social media. And platforms like Facebook and Twitter are still filled
    with people who insist that you can actually hurt yourself by wearing a
    mask because you're forced to inhale carbon dioxide. It's a dumb and
    inaccurate argument, but it's [85]surprisingly common.

    Masks were the butt of jokes in early March, as people like Republican
    Rep. Matt Gaetz infamously [86]wore a gas mask on the House floor while he
    went to vote on the $8.3 billion emergency spending bill passed on March
    4. Gaetz and other Republicans appeared on Fox News to insist that it was
    all nothing but hype, something that some commentators like [87]Laura
    Ingraham still claim, despite the fact that tens of thousands of Americans
    are still contracting the virus every single day.

    Other western countries like the UK were also initially skeptical of
    masks, leading to a terrible outbreak in England, exacerbated by a
    [89]bungled response from Prime Minister Boris Johnson, a man who
    [90]eventually survived his own bout with covid-19 after being moved to
    the ICU and given oxygen. The BBC, Britain's public broadcaster, even
    aired anti-mask segments that insisted facemasks did nothing to stop the
    spread of coronavirus, including this one from March 22 that's still
    available on [91]YouTube.

    The UK currently has over 298,000 cases and at least 41,000 deaths, the
    fourth worst outbreak in the world. The U.S. has over 2.1 million cases
    and more than 116,000 deaths, with no signs of the pandemic slowing down.

    What would have happened if Fauci had been honest with Americans back in
    February, leveling with people that the U.S. didn't have a good supply of
    facial coverings for health workers and that any N-95 masks should be
    reserved for doctors and nurses? Fauci could have explained that while
    masks worked, they needed to be reserved for health care professionals.
    The government was seizing most of the masks while they were shipped
    anyway, so it's not like most masks were finding their way to stores.

    Instead, Fauci and other top government officials made fun of people who
    wanted to wear a mask. U.S. Surgeon General Jerome Adams even told people
    on February 29 to stop buying masks because they don't work.

    "Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS!" Adams [92]tweeted. "They are NOT
    effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if
    healthcare providers can't get them to care for sick patients, it puts
    them and our communities at risk!"

    And, as a result, there was mass confusion when the government finally
    flipped and started to recommend masks for everyone, even if they had to
    make them at home. The CDC didn't change its guidance on mask use until
    April 3, finally recommending that people wear masks, even if they're
    homemade out of cloth.

    Fauci's refusal to embrace masks has had a real impact on the way that
    Americans perceive the coronavirus fight. And, like everything today, even
    masks have become a partisan battleground. Roughly 70% of Democrats say
    they wear a mask "every time" they leave the house, according to a poll
    late last month by the [94]Kaiser Family Foundation. Compare that with
    just 37% of Republicans.

    There have been subtle differences in the ways that each country has
    fought the coronavirus pandemic. New Zealand closed its borders and
    implemented a system to test residents. Kiwis then scaled up its track and
    trace program to identify close contacts, isolating them so that they
    didn't get others sick. Taiwan also implemented track and trace
    procedures, but it put a special emphasis on masks to control community
    spread. Hong Kong put a heavy emphasis on "[95]universal masking" as well,
    which is credited with keeping the spread of covid-19 to a minimum.


    Health officials in China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan even tried to warn
    western countries that they needed to wear masks, and it's not the fault
    of the American people that they didn't listen. Americans were hearing
    from their own health experts, not watching international news.

    "If you are going to a crowded place, put on a mask even if you are not
    ill because others may be, even if they have cough etiquette or sneeze
    etiquette, they may still get in touch with you," Dr. Gabriel Leung, an
    expert on SARS and Director of the WHO Collaborating Center for Infectious
    Disease Epidemiology and Control, said at a press conference in Hong Kong
    on [96]January 21, as Gizmodo reported at the time.

    But America's own health officials, people like Anthony Fauci, were
    telling Americans that masks were useless. And Americans are going to pay
    the price in the months and years ahead, as there's no guarantee that a
    covid-19 vaccine will even work if it's developed. It doesn't matter if
    his heart was in the right place in some effort to save masks for doctors
    and nurses, Fauci did real harm to public health in the United States.

    When all is said and done, Fauci might be remembered as a folk hero, but
    he sure has a lot of blood on his hands. And none of this is anywhere
    close to done.

    66. https://www.thestreet.com/video/dr-fauci-masks-changing-directive-coronavirus 67. https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/15/politics/white-house-coronavirus-task-force/index.html
    68. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover.html#:~:text=In%20light%20of%20this%20new,community%2Dbased%20transmission.
    73. https://www.mynews13.com/fl/orlando/news/2020/02/15/disease-expert--flu-a-bigger-risk-in-the-us-than-coronavirus
    74. https://gizmodo.com/20-countries-report-first-cases-of-coronavirus-this-wee-1841949283
    75. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/
    76. https://thediplomat.com/2020/01/xi-jinping-warns-that-chinas-coronavirus-outbreak-must-be-taken-seriously/
    77. https://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/high-school-teacher-holds-class-by-videochat-while-in-c-1841487379
    78. https://www.vox.com/2020/3/10/21171217/coronavirus-covid-19-italy-hospitals 79. https://twitter.com/paleofuture/status/1231666919343710208
    80. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/
    81. https://www.kqed.org/news/11816135/how-the-nations-first-covid-19-death-went-undetected-in-san-jose
    82. https://www.propublica.org/article/cdc-coronavirus-covid-19-test
    83. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/preventing-coronavirus-facemask-60-minutes-2020-03-08/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab5j&linkId=84037176&fbclid=IwAR2beT5z3n7w1fBcI87i33fBaC5GJ4js32Sy5_K6TnFYou2LgaCegdpypXo
    84. https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/outdated-fauci-video-on-face-masks-shared-out-of-context/
    85. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/may/19/facebook-posts/theres-no-evidence-wearing-standard-masks-harmful-/
    86. https://gizmodo.com/remember-this-photo-1842113350
    87. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfTGEWbd4y8
    88. https://gizmodo.com/ajax/inset/iframe?id=youtube-video-pfTGEWbd4y8&start=0 89. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/coronavirus-pandemic-herd-immunity-uk-boris-johnson/608065/
    90. https://gizmodo.com/boris-johnson-moved-to-icu-and-given-oxygen-after-coron-1842719881
    91. https://youtu.be/qNkjJHliMZo
    92. https://twitter.com/surgeon_general/status/1233725785283932160?lang=en
    94. https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/report/kff-health-tracking-poll-may-2020/
    95. https://twitter.com/paleofuture/status/1241701034004627458
    96. https://gizmodo.com/new-virus-kills-sixth-person-after-human-to-human-trans-1841125936
    ===

    OTOH -- Trump is active in discouraging people from wearing masks and
    from exercising social distance measures. He sets the example for that
    by his actions.

    Considering that masks are ineffective and social distancing really needs to be 30+ feet outdoors; it's completely ineffective indoors because of well, being indoors. He is setting an example of being realistic. You do realize that the only people who are really dropping dead of the virus are people like you and me: older people with underlying conditions.

    You do know that the WHO is now saying that masks are ineffective against COVID-19?

    From: https://tinyurl.com/y9oxlfrx (infectioncontroltoday.com):

    ===
    Surgical, Cotton Masks Equally Ineffective in Blocking COVID-19 Spread, Say
    Investigators

    * Frank Diamond
    April 7, 2020

    Surgical and cotton masks are both ineffective when it comes to blocking
    droplets of the virus SARS-CoV-2 that may be generated when somebody
    coughs, according to investigators with the Ulsan College of Medicine,
    Seoul, South Korea. Their [27]research letter, published yesterday in
    the Annals of Internal Medicine, compared the 2 types of masks. Four
    patients coughed 5 times each into a petri dish while wearing no mask.
    They then coughed 5 times wearing a surgical mask, a cotton mask, and
    then, again, wearing no mask. The study, conducted at 2 hospitals in
    Seoul, found that when patients coughed into either type of mask, droplets
    of SARS-CoV-2 were released into the environment.

    "The median viral loads after coughs without a mask, with a surgical mask,
    and with a cotton mask were 2.56 log copies/mL, 2.42 log copies/mL, and
    1.85 log copies/mL, respectively," the research letter states. "All swabs
    from the outer mask surfaces of the masks were positive for SARS-CoV-2,
    whereas most swabs from the inner mask surfaces were negative."

    The study did not include the N95 masks, which are in short supply these
    days and which infection preventionists and other healthcare
    workers [28]desperately need on the frontlines of the battle against
    COVID-19.

    The masks were swabbed with Dacron swabs; the outer and inner surfaces of
    both the surgical and cotton masks. The researchers found SARS COV-2 on
    all surfaces.

    The results come after the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
    (CDC) recently said that people should wear [29]cloth masks in public to
    help contain the spread of the disease from asymptomatic carriers. The CDC
    thinks that the masks will help in situations where social
    distancing-staying at least 6 feet apart-is difficult to do; settings such
    as grocery stores and pharmacies. This represents a change in policy,
    where the CDC, as well as [30]the World Health Organization (WHO), said
    that masks are not necessary for people who are not exhibiting symptoms.
    "If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care
    of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection," the WHO still says on its
    website.

    The research letter investigators found greater contamination on the outer
    surface of the face masks than on the inner surfaces.

    "Although it is possible that virus particles may cross from the inner to
    the outer surface because of the physical pressure of swabbing, we swabbed
    the outer surface before the inner surface," the research letter states.
    "The consistent finding of virus on the outer mask surface is unlikely to
    have been caused by experimental error or artifact."

    It's possible that the aerodynamic properties of the masks may account for
    this. "A turbulent jet due to air leakage around the mask edge could
    contaminate the outer surface," the research letter states.
    "Alternatively, the small aerosols of SARS-CoV-2 generated during a
    high-velocity cough might penetrate the masks."

    However, the investigators say that this hypothesis works only if the
    coughing patient didn't exhale large-sized SARS-CoV-2 particles. They'd be
    trapped in the inner mask even with a high-velocity cough.

    "These observations support the importance of hand hygiene after touching
    the outer surface of masks," investigators conclude.

    27. https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2764367/effectiveness-surgical-cotton-masks-blocking-sars-cov-2-controlled-comparison#.Xot-MbRataU.twitter
    28. https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/mask-respirators/expect-huge-surge-demand-personal-protective-equipment-covid-19-hotspots
    29. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover.html
    30. https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks
    ===

    Oh, let's not forget that the "six foot" social distancing thing is a load of hot steaming crap also...

    From: https://tinyurl.com/y85fhppy (mdlinx.com)

    ===
    Surgical, Cotton Masks Equally Ineffective in Blocking COVID-19 Spread, Say
    Investigators

    * Frank Diamond
    April 7, 2020

    Surgical and cotton masks are both ineffective when it comes to blocking
    droplets of the virus SARS-CoV-2 that may be generated when somebody
    coughs, according to investigators with the Ulsan College of Medicine,
    Seoul, South Korea. Their [27]research letter, published yesterday in
    the Annals of Internal Medicine, compared the 2 types of masks. Four
    patients coughed 5 times each into a petri dish while wearing no mask.
    They then coughed 5 times wearing a surgical mask, a cotton mask, and
    then, again, wearing no mask. The study, conducted at 2 hospitals in
    Seoul, found that when patients coughed into either type of mask, droplets
    of SARS-CoV-2 were released into the environment.

    "The median viral loads after coughs without a mask, with a surgical mask,
    and with a cotton mask were 2.56 log copies/mL, 2.42 log copies/mL, and
    1.85 log copies/mL, respectively," the research letter states. "All swabs
    from the outer mask surfaces of the masks were positive for SARS-CoV-2,
    whereas most swabs from the inner mask surfaces were negative."

    The study did not include the N95 masks, which are in short supply these
    days and which infection preventionists and other healthcare
    workers [28]desperately need on the frontlines of the battle against
    COVID-19.

    The masks were swabbed with Dacron swabs; the outer and inner surfaces of
    both the surgical and cotton masks. The researchers found SARS COV-2 on
    all surfaces.

    The results come after the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
    (CDC) recently said that people should wear [29]cloth masks in public to
    help contain the spread of the disease from asymptomatic carriers. The CDC
    thinks that the masks will help in situations where social
    distancing-staying at least 6 feet apart-is difficult to do; settings such
    as grocery stores and pharmacies. This represents a change in policy,
    where the CDC, as well as [30]the World Health Organization (WHO), said
    that masks are not necessary for people who are not exhibiting symptoms.
    "If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care
    of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection," the WHO still says on its
    website.

    The research letter investigators found greater contamination on the outer
    surface of the face masks than on the inner surfaces.

    "Although it is possible that virus particles may cross from the inner to
    the outer surface because of the physical pressure of swabbing, we swabbed
    the outer surface before the inner surface," the research letter states.
    "The consistent finding of virus on the outer mask surface is unlikely to
    have been caused by experimental error or artifact."

    It's possible that the aerodynamic properties of the masks may account for
    this. "A turbulent jet due to air leakage around the mask edge could
    contaminate the outer surface," the research letter states.
    "Alternatively, the small aerosols of SARS-CoV-2 generated during a
    high-velocity cough might penetrate the masks."

    However, the investigators say that this hypothesis works only if the
    coughing patient didn't exhale large-sized SARS-CoV-2 particles. They'd be
    trapped in the inner mask even with a high-velocity cough.

    "These observations support the importance of hand hygiene after touching
    the outer surface of masks," investigators conclude.

    27. https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2764367/effectiveness-surgical-cotton-masks-blocking-sars-cov-2-controlled-comparison#.Xot-MbRataU.twitter
    28. https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/mask-respirators/expect-huge-surge-demand-personal-protective-equipment-covid-19-hotspots
    29. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover.html
    30. https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks
    ===

    So now that the truth has come out, you're still going to say Trump is a liar, et al. just because he's Trump.

    I expect that. It's okay.

    You can lead a man to intelligence but you can't make him think.

    True -- I do not trust anything Trump says for that very reason.

    Spoken like a true liberal. When presented with facts, go hiding into your corner.

    Trump only listens to Fox News and his own gut.

    Trump doesn't like Fox News, so not sure where you got that from. Much like how you get your news from only reliably unreliable places like CNN, MSNBC, et cetera.

    I'm not trying to get you to suddenly become Republican here but I am trying to tell you that you seem to be blissfully aware of some critical facts here.

    Later,
    Sean

    ... Civil engineers do it behind schedule.
    ___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

    --- Maximus/2 3.01
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (1:18/200)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to DALE SHIPP on Saturday, June 20, 2020 10:35:00
    To me, it went like it should... he
    made an opening statement then let the doctors talk and tell us how things really are.

    He should have simply introduced the doctors and let them tell us how
    things are without making contradictory statements to diminish the
    doctors effect.

    Yes, I would agree with that except I also know if he did that we'd instead
    be disagreeing about whether or not it was "Presidential" for him to do so.
    I would be pointing out the above and you'd be giving grief about how he should be talking more, how we need leadership, etc.

    I can remember the days he did similar to that... the press had a field
    day about how he was not talking and therefore must be sick and dying.


    * SLMR 2.1a * I graduated MAGNA CUM DENTE (by the skin of my teeth).
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to DALE SHIPP on Saturday, June 20, 2020 19:32:00
    Give us a direct quote for that. What I read is that he did not
    recommend the general public obtaining masks in the beginning out of
    concerns of them hoarding the type of masks critically needed as PPE by frontline medical people. The type of cloth mask now in general public

    Wait, in your message to me, you said he and others told us not to obtain *only* those special kind of masks, not all masks.

    Now you are saying he said not to obtain masks in general because he was
    afraid we'd try to get the good ones (which sounds like the same thing that Sean said).

    So, Dale, which is it?


    * SLMR 2.1a * If an experiment works, something has gone wrong
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Sean Dennis on Sunday, June 21, 2020 04:03:22
    CNN has been called out several times by Trump and his press secretary for their deceptive editing of Trump speaking and other videos (the white child chasing after the black child video comes to mind; they didn't show the first two minutes of the video which showed the children hugging). In fact, they were called out again on it today.

    The fake video was posted by Trump himself.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Mike Powell on Saturday, June 20, 2020 07:45:00
    Mike Powell wrote to KURT WEISKE <=-

    None of the experts thought that opening by Easter was feasible, so
    that had to be a bit of a gaffe.

    If I say "if the doctor says it is OK" then the doctor does not say it
    is OK, how is that a gaffe?

    A reasonable person would describe the president publicly
    contradicting medical advice from the country's top infectious
    disease experts - on the same podium as him - as a gaffe.



    ... Go outside. Shut the door.
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Sean Dennis on Sunday, June 21, 2020 08:22:00
    Sean Dennis wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

    Kurt Weiske wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

    Yes. It's called accountability. Despite claiming no responsibility at all, the buck stops with him. That's how leadership works.

    You cannot expect someone like the president to know everything about everything.

    I never claimed that.

    Trump listens and trusts his advisors, even if they're wrong. He isn't like Mr. "I have a pen and a phone" Obama who thought he was king and
    who is still trying to destroy this country from behind the scenes.

    I'm not going there.

    If liberals weren't trying to oust Trump, we could've gotten a jump on this, but no, they were all having a massive circle jerk about Trump
    and ignoring the pandemic in January and February.

    I'm not going there, either.

    You want to talk about leadership? Look at the mess that the House of Representatives is.

    My point has continually been non-partisan; that both sides are
    pretty fucked up at this point.

    Hell, back when y'all controlled Congress and had the Presidency, you still couldn't get anything done.

    Which administration/year are you referring to?

    Don't talk to me about leadership. Take a look at the idiots you're voting into office and what they've done for you.

    Not a damn thing.

    Let's not forget that Drs. Fauci and Birx are both avowed liberals with ties to big Pharma, George Soros, and other unsavory organizations.

    So, how about that leadership now, Kurt? When the liberal expets are caught lying to the country?

    What say you?

    Seeing as we disagree on leadership, and the rest of your reply was
    criticizing the democratic party, not sure where we can go from here.






    ... Don't break the silence
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Sean Dennis on Sunday, June 21, 2020 08:36:00
    Sean Dennis wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

    CNN has been called out several times by Trump and his press secretary
    for their deceptive editing of Trump speaking and other videos (the
    white child chasing after the black child video comes to mind; they
    didn't show the first two minutes of the video which showed the
    children hugging). In fact, they were called out again on it today.

    Is that the video that Trump posted to Twitter with a fake Chyron
    reading "Terrified toddler runs from racist baby"?

    I can cite many examples of lefty media lying. Can you cite any right-wing examples?

    Infowars? NewsMax? WorldNet Daily? I'd need to do some research to
    dig up any more.

    Now I know you're from California, the land of the bleeding-heart
    liberal (though it never used to be).

    I also know you to be an intelligent person whom I respect.

    I can't wrap my head why you want to toe the loony liberal line.

    Shades of gray. Not Either/Or.





    ... Don't break the silence
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Sean Dennis on Sunday, June 21, 2020 08:50:00
    Sean Dennis wrote to Dale Shipp <=-

    He has said that a mask was ineffective against COVID-19 ... which he
    was later proven to be right (see second article in this message).

    The CDC led that, mostly out of a concern for people hoarding N95 PPE
    to prevent infection, which would have put medical workers at
    risk. This was mirrored by the Surgeon General's comments on March 2.
    They've been pretty consistent about the need to prioritize PPE for
    medical workers and pushing the need for face coverings (not surgical
    masks) and social distancing ever since.

    Little did we know that most of the hoarding of PPE was happening
    behind the scenes.

    As an exercise, think of the outcome if the government urged people
    to go out and buy PPE. There'd be a run on equipment, shortages,
    massive price inflation (more than now), rich people with masks
    and poor people without.

    If you're singling out this administration for misleading the public
    for the public good, that's been happening as long as we've had
    representative government.

    So here's some enlightening reading about how Fauci lied by omission (I know that's a foreign concept to liberals, but you'll come around).

    That's a cheap shot. Doesn't address the topic, and doesn't help your
    position.






    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:267/150 to Kurt Weiske on Sunday, June 21, 2020 14:04:49
    I never claimed that.

    I'm not going there.

    I'm not going there, either.

    These are popular Democrat phrases. Why not go there? It's ok to lose a
    debate once in a while. Learning new things will make you stronger.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A44 2020/02/04 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to SEAN DENNIS on Sunday, June 21, 2020 11:18:00
    Hell, back when y'all controlled Congress and had the Presidency, you still couldn't get anything done.

    That is not fair, Sean. They gave us stagflation, which probably would
    have eventually lead us to glorious socialism or communism had it not been
    for that evil Ronald Reagan.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "How to keep your conference on topic" by Mod R. Ator
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Aaron Thomas on Sunday, June 21, 2020 19:32:06
    I never claimed that.

    I'm not going there.

    I'm not going there, either.

    These are popular Democrat phrases. Why not go there? It's ok to lose a debate once in a while. Learning new things will make you stronger.

    There didn't appear to be anything there to debate or learn from.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Sean Dennis on Monday, June 22, 2020 01:29:00
    On 06-20-20 22:07, Sean Dennis <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Trump on Covid <=-

    Give us a direct quote for that. What I read is that he did not
    recommend the general public obtaining masks in the beginning out of concerns of them hoarding the type of masks critically needed as PPE by frontline medical people.

    He has said that a mask was ineffective against COVID-19
    ... which he was later
    proven to be right (see second article in this message).

    The articles I read in your references confirm what I said above. When
    he was making the statements you referred to, N95 masks were in very
    short supply and were critical for health professionals.

    The accepted scientific knowledge is that wearing a mask helps only a
    little against your getting the virus, but that wearing a mask helps a
    lot against your giving the virus to others.

    Here is a very good explanation of this mess from a fantastically
    liberal organization (if I'd gotten the article from a right-wing site, you'd never believed me).

    I'll take your word that Gizmodo is a liberal organization -- I had
    never heard of it, and could only see that it is described as a design, technology, science and science fiction website.

    So here's some enlightening reading about how Fauci lied by omission
    (I know that's a foreign concept to liberals, but you'll come around).

    I've spent some time making sure links were kept in these articles for your further research.

    Fauci was asked yesterday by financial news outlet [66]The Street
    why the U.S. government didn't promote masks early on during the
    pandemic. Fauci, who sits on the Trump regime's [67]zombie-like coronavirus task force, hinted that he knew masks worked, he just
    wanted any available masks to be saved for health care workers.

    As I said above.

    "There is no reason for anyone right now in the United States, with
    regard to coronavirus, to wear a mask," Fauci told Spectrum News DC
    on [73]February 14.

    That may well have been true then, when the number of infections was
    still in double digits. Now that it is seven figures, not true.

    "I was getting calls from people in Sacramento saying, `Can I get
    on an airplane to go to Seattle?'" Fauci told USA Today on
    [80]February 17. "Like, what? What does that got to do with
    anything?"

    I recall about that same time his saying that if a person was in a high
    risk group that they should consider not flying domestically -- and
    that international flying was risky for all.

    Masks were the butt of jokes in early March, as people like
    Republican Rep. Matt Gaetz infamously [86]wore a gas mask on the

    True -- and look where that got him. Has he recovered from COVID-19
    yet?

    The UK currently has over 298,000 cases and at least 41,000 deaths,
    the fourth worst outbreak in the world. The U.S. has over 2.1
    million cases and more than 116,000 deaths, with no signs of the
    pandemic slowing down.

    Acually, it is rising as of now -- especially soaring in the states that
    have prematurally opened up.

    What would have happened if Fauci had been honest with Americans
    back in February, leveling with people that the U.S. didn't have a
    good supply of facial coverings for health workers and that any N-95
    masks should be reserved for doctors and nurses? Fauci could have explained that while masks worked, they needed to be reserved for
    health care professionals.

    That is what he said.

    Fauci's refusal to embrace masks has had a real impact on the way
    that Americans perceive the coronavirus fight. And, like everything
    today, even masks have become a partisan battleground. Roughly 70%
    of Democrats say they wear a mask "every time" they leave the house, according to a poll late last month by the [94]Kaiser Family
    Foundation. Compare that with just 37% of Republicans.

    Perhaps the leader of the Republicans has some influence on that low percentage. BTW -- where I am now living, wearing a mask is mandatory
    whenever I leave my abode.

    so that they didn't get others sick. Taiwan also implemented track
    and trace procedures, but it put a special emphasis on masks to
    control community spread. Hong Kong put a heavy emphasis on
    "[95]universal masking" as well, which is credited with keeping the
    spread of covid-19 to a minimum.

    Would that our leaders had done the same. We might have peaked out at
    50,000 deaths.

    letter states. "All swabs from the outer mask surfaces of the masks
    were positive for SARS-CoV-2, whereas most swabs from the inner mask surfaces were negative."

    That finding defies logic. If infected subjects were wearing a mask and coughed into it, there should be a higher viral load on the inside of
    the mask than the outside. They in fact say -- nothing on the inside,
    positive on the outside. In any case, what really matters is how much
    the virus travels to a nearby object with and without the mask.

    The masks were swabbed with Dacron swabs; the outer and inner
    surfaces of both the surgical and cotton masks. The researchers
    found SARS COV-2 on all surfaces.

    And that paragraph is in opposition to the one above. I have real
    doubts about that study and would like to see what peer review has to
    say about it.

    Oh, let's not forget that the "six foot" social distancing thing is a
    load of hot steaming crap also...

    From: https://tinyurl.com/y85fhppy (mdlinx.com)

    Not exactly -- six feet helps. 27 feet is better.


    So now that the truth has come out, you're still going to say Trump is
    a liar, et al. just because he's Trump.

    He cannot help it. It is his nature.

    Spoken like a true liberal. When presented with facts, go hiding into your corner.

    I have not been hiding.

    Trump only listens to Fox News and his own gut.

    Trump doesn't like Fox News, so not sure where you got that from.

    He lately is said to have gotten disenchanted with them, except for a
    few of their spokes people.

    Much like how you get your news from only reliably unreliable places
    like CNN, MSNBC, et cetera.

    And Washington Post, New York Times, Wall Street Journal.


    In closing, I will say that I appreciate that you have actually debated
    the issues and facts, rather than resorting to deflection and name
    calling as is done by others here.

    Stay safe.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 02:14:53, 22 Jun 2020
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Mike Powell on Monday, June 22, 2020 02:16:02
    On 06-20-20 19:32, Mike Powell <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Trump on Covid <=-


    Give us a direct quote for that. What I read is that he did not
    recommend the general public obtaining masks in the beginning out of concerns of them hoarding the type of masks critically needed as PPE by frontline medical people. The type of cloth mask now in general public

    Wait, in your message to me, you said he and others told us not to
    obtain *only* those special kind of masks, not all masks.

    You clipped off the most relevant part of that quote. When that was
    said, the PPE type of masks were essentially the only sort available to
    the American public. Now many other sorts of masks, including homemade
    ones, are more widely available. They help. They are not perfect.
    They are not as effective as the PPE masks.

    Now you are saying he said not to obtain masks in general because he
    was afraid we'd try to get the good ones (which sounds like the same
    thing that Sean said).

    So, Dale, which is it?

    That is it. That is what I said before, and what I say now, and what
    Sean said.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 02:20:08, 22 Jun 2020
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Sean Dennis on Monday, June 22, 2020 14:07:48
    Hello Sean,

    I come here to relax and talk politics, not to listen to some bullheaded socialist try to act like he's from Louisiana and show off the fact that English is a second language for him.

    I had no choice speaking Cajun French when I grew up. Even my
    teacher in kindergarten spoke only Cajun French, leaving us all
    in the same boat. Kinda fun saying the Pledge of Allegiance in
    French, as well as singing the Star Spangled Banner.

    --Lee

    --
    In solidarity - RIP George Floyd - Black Lives Matter

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to DALE SHIPP on Monday, June 22, 2020 18:50:00
    Now you are saying he said not to obtain masks in general because he
    was afraid we'd try to get the good ones (which sounds like the same thing that Sean said).

    So, Dale, which is it?

    That is it. That is what I said before, and what I say now, and what
    Sean said.

    Which is not what you said to me in a previous message.


    * SLMR 2.1a * The first myth of management is that it exists.
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)