• ftp via web interface broken?

    From Geo@1:103/705 to All on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 10:35:18
    Hi Gang, Hey I upgraded my linux based syncronet to 3.17c yesterday. Upgrade from CVS all seems to have gone great except now I am unable to access any of the flie library from the standard web interface. Has anyone else seen this behavior? Even when logg
    It may be a change in the way the web browsers all work.

    I know Coz mentioned it has been broken for him for a while now on irc.

    Anyone else seen this behavior?

    8-)


    Regards..Geo
    ooooOOOOoooo

    ---
    Synchronet The Dungeon BBS - Risen from the Ashes! - Canberra, Australia. http://bbs.barnab
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Digital Man@1:103/705 to Geo on Tuesday, April 07, 2020 19:57:30
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Geo to All on Wed Apr 08 2020 10:35 am

    Hi Gang, Hey I upgraded my linux based syncronet to 3.17c yesterday. Upgrade from CVS all seems to have gone great except now I am unable to access any of the flie library from the standard web interface. Has anyone else seen this behavior? Even when logged in to the web interface as me, (geo) if I look at the logs I see it try to access the ftp as user #2 Guest.

    It may be a change in the way the web browsers all work.

    I know Coz mentioned it has been broken for him for a while now on irc.

    Anyone else seen this behavior?

    Yes, due to browser changes, nothing in Synchronet.

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #31:
    Viv Savage: Quite exciting, this computer magic!
    Norco, CA WX: 53.3F, 80.0% humidity, 10 mph W wind, 1.01 inches rain/24hrs
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Geo@1:103/705 to Digital Man on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 18:22:57
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Digital Man to Geo on Tue Apr 07 2020 19:57:30

    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Geo to All on Wed Apr 08 2020 10:35 am

    Hi Gang, Hey I upgraded my linux based syncronet to 3.17c yesterday.
    Upgrade from CVS all seems
    to have gone great except now I am unable to access any of the flie
    library from the standard web
    interface. Has anyone else seen this behavior? Even when logged in to the
    web interface as me,
    (geo) if I look at the logs I see it try to access the ftp as user #2
    Guest.

    It may be a change in the way the web browsers all work.

    I know Coz mentioned it has been broken for him for a while now on irc.

    Anyone else seen this behavior?

    Yes, due to browser changes, nothing in Synchronet.

    digital man

    DM, Do you think it is something that can be fixed?

    8-)

    Just wondering. 8-)




    Regards..Geo
    ooooOOOOoooo

    ---
    Synchronet The Dungeon BBS - Risen from the Ashes! - Canberra, Australia. http://bbs.barnab
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Rampage@1:103/705 to Geo on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 13:16:00
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Geo to Digital Man on Wed Apr 08 2020 18:22:57


    DM, Do you think it is something that can be fixed?

    the only real fix is to use http or https instead of ftp because most all browsers are dropping rendering of ftp retrieved pages and some are dropping ftp completely... this because standard ftp is as insecure as telnet... i don't
    know if they are suppor

    )\/(ark

    ---
    Synchronet The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Digital Man@1:103/705 to Geo on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 11:44:59
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Geo to Digital Man on Wed Apr 08 2020 06:22 pm

    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Digital Man to Geo on Tue Apr 07 2020 19:57:30

    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Geo to All on Wed Apr 08 2020 10:35 am

    Hi Gang, Hey I upgraded my linux based syncronet to 3.17c yesterday. Upgrade from CVS all seems
    to have gone great except now I am unable to access any of the flie library from the standard web
    interface. Has anyone else seen this behavior? Even when logged in to the web interface as me,
    (geo) if I look at the logs I see it try to access the ftp as user #2 Guest.

    It may be a change in the way the web browsers all work.

    I know Coz mentioned it has been broken for him for a while now on irc.

    Anyone else seen this behavior?

    Yes, due to browser changes, nothing in Synchronet.

    DM, Do you think it is something that can be fixed?

    Just wondering. 8-)

    The "fix" is likely going to be a http/web base file library/transfer interface
    and just abandon and possibly remove the HTML-over-FTP idea.

    echicken has web-based file library thing for ecWebv4, I think, but the underlying infrastructure (the Synchronet JavaScript Object Model) is insufficient to really do it right (not ec's fault, my fault). We'll get there some day.

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #69:
    SpiderMonkey = Mozilla's C/C++ JavaScript Engine (libmozjs)
    Norco, CA WX: 55.0F, 70.0% humidity, 9 mph NNE wind, 0.78 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Digital Man@1:103/705 to Rampage on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 11:46:45
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Rampage to Geo on Wed Apr 08 2020 01:16 pm

    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Geo to Digital Man on Wed Apr 08 2020 18:22:57


    DM, Do you think it is something that can be fixed?

    the only real fix is to use http or https instead of ftp because most all browsers are dropping rendering of ftp retrieved pages and some are dropping ftp completely... this because standard ftp is as insecure as telnet... i don't know if they are supporting ftps or similar, though...

    It's not just insecure, it was a badly designed protocol. I'm guessing it'll go
    the way of UUCP and Gopher eventually, relegated to the dustbins of history, put out to pasture, given a nice a grave stone that nobody will visit. :-(

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #29:
    Rob Swindell first called BBSes (at 300bps) with an Apple II computer in 1982. Norco, CA WX: 55.0F, 70.0% humidity, 9 mph NNE wind, 0.78 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From echicken@1:103/705 to Digital Man on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 15:30:18
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Digital Man to Geo on Wed Apr 08 2020 11:44:59

    The "fix" is likely going to be a http/web base file library/transfer
    interface and just abandon and
    possibly remove the HTML-over-FTP idea.

    echicken has web-based file library thing for ecWebv4, I think, but the
    underlying infrastructure
    (the Synchronet JavaScript Object Model) is insufficient to really do it
    right (not ec's fault, my
    fault). We'll get there some day.

    I think uploads are the main/only file-library-related thing that's missing from my web UI at this point. Other related features may be missing but could be added easily.

    One problem might be the actual uploading. I think Deuce committed something the other day re: large POSTs to the webserver, so that would need to be investigated, or some other mechanism used.

    I'm using (I think) filebase.js to pull records out of the file database(s), but IIRC it's read-only. The ability to add records would be required. This is probably not worth the effort if you plan on overhauling the file library system in general in the
    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    Synchronet electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Digital Man@1:103/705 to echicken on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 12:51:02
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: echicken to Digital Man on Wed Apr 08 2020 03:30 pm

    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Digital Man to Geo on Wed Apr 08 2020 11:44:59

    The "fix" is likely going to be a http/web base file library/transfer interface and just abandon and possibly remove the HTML-over-FTP idea.

    echicken has web-based file library thing for ecWebv4, I think, but the underlying infrastructure (the Synchronet JavaScript Object Model) is insufficient to really do it right (not ec's fault, my fault). We'll get there some day.

    I think uploads are the main/only file-library-related thing that's missing from my web UI at this point. Other related features may be missing but could be added easily.

    I'm just guessing that there are gaps even on the download side: like credit adjustments (deductions from downloaders and additions to the uploader, at the configured rates), user notifications. Does that stuff work?

    One problem might be the actual uploading. I think Deuce committed something the other day re: large POSTs to the webserver, so that would need to be investigated, or some other mechanism used.

    I think it'll have to be HTTP-POST (no other solution comes to mind), but might
    need a better scheme (e.g. receiving to a temp file rather than to a memory buffer) on the webserver. But the FTP-HTML interface doesn't support uploads either, so no big los
    I'm using (I think) filebase.js to pull records out of the file database(s), but IIRC it's read-only. The ability to add records would be required. This is probably not worth the effort if you plan on overhauling the file library system in general in the nearish future.

    Yup, planning no both overhauling the file library system and add a JS modeling
    of such (similar to the MsgBase class).

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #112:
    Weedpuller "Congenial" http://youtu.be/MrN2Kwrj8lY
    Norco, CA WX: 54.1F, 68.0% humidity, 7 mph NNE wind, 0.78 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From echicken@1:103/705 to Digital Man on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 16:01:52
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Digital Man to echicken on Wed Apr 08 2020 12:51:02

    from my web UI at this point. Other related features may be missing but
    could be added easily.

    I'm just guessing that there are gaps even on the download side: like
    credit adjustments (deductions
    from downloaders and additions to the uploader, at the configured rates),
    user notifications. Does
    that stuff work?

    None of the credit-related stuff is implemented, but I think it could be added without too much hassle.

    There's probably an argument for keeping the credit system around (some torrent
    trackers have similar concepts still in use today), but it hasn't seemed worth the effort thus far. I can't remember anyone other than Phil wanting to use it recently.

    I think it'll have to be HTTP-POST (no other solution comes to mind), but
    might need a better scheme

    POST would be the obvious/most straightforward way. Streaming the file via a websocket connection or something would be another option - doable, but a bit silly.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    Synchronet electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Digital Man@1:103/705 to echicken on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 13:14:28
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Digital Man to echicken on Wed Apr 08 2020 12:51 pm

    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: echicken to Digital Man on Wed Apr 08 2020 03:30 pm

    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Digital Man to Geo on Wed Apr 08 2020 11:44:59

    The "fix" is likely going to be a http/web base file library/transfer interface and just abandon and possibly remove the HTML-over-FTP idea.

    echicken has web-based file library thing for ecWebv4, I think, but the underlying infrastructure (the Synchronet JavaScript Object Model) is insufficient to really do it right (not ec's fault, my fault). We'll get there some day.

    I think uploads are the main/only file-library-related thing that's missing from my web UI at this point. Other related features may be missing but could be added easily.

    I'm just guessing that there are gaps even on the download side: like credit adjustments (deductions from downloaders and additions to the uploader, at the configured rates), user notifications. Does that stuff work?

    Oh, and if your filebase library is read-only, then you wouldn't be updating the file's statistics (times downloaded, last downloaded).

    And then there's the system-wide file transfer stats (stored in ctrl/dsts.dab, a file that should be deprecated in favor of a better file format), I'm guessing you're probably not updating those.

    Maybe most sysops and users wouldn't immediately notice that these don't work for web-downloads, but they are features that are currently supported in the FTP server and could be the source of bugs if not implemented. A work-around would be to have the w
    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #24:
    1584 Synchronet BBS Software registrations were sold between 1992 and 1996. Norco, CA WX: 52.4F, 70.0% humidity, 1 mph W wind, 0.77 inches rain/24hrs
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From echicken@1:103/705 to Digital Man on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 16:53:57
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Digital Man to echicken on Wed Apr 08 2020 13:14:28

    Oh, and if your filebase library is read-only, then you wouldn't be
    updating
    the file's statistics (times downloaded, last downloaded).

    And then there's the system-wide file transfer stats (stored in
    ctrl/dsts.dab, a file that should be
    deprecated in favor of a better file format), I'm guessing you're probably
    not updating those.

    Definitely not updating any of those at the moment. I'm sure some sysops care about that, but it hasn't been a priority for me.

    not implemented. A work-around would be to have the web server point to
    FTP-URLs for the actual file
    transfer (which would require (re)authentication of the user) rather than
    using HTTP-GET, but that
    seems like a hack.

    Yeah, I didn't want to involve the FTP server if I didn't have to, party because of authentication, partly because of general hackiness.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    Synchronet electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Nightfox@1:103/705 to echicken on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 15:32:26
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: echicken to Digital Man on Wed Apr 08 2020 04:01 pm

    I'm just guessing that there are gaps even on the download side:
    like credit adjustments (deductions from downloaders and additions
    to the uploader, at the configured rates), user notifications. Does
    that stuff work?

    None of the credit-related stuff is implemented, but I think it could be added without too much hassle.

    Does Synchronet no longer update credits when files are downloaded via the web interface? Sometimes I've seen notices that someone downloaded some of my files via the web and it says I got credit for the downloads.. I haven't seen much of that lately t
    There's probably an argument for keeping the credit system around (some torrent trackers have similar concepts still in use today), but it hasn't seemed worth the effort thus far. I can't remember anyone other than Phil wanting to use it recently.

    It's still possible to run a dialup BBS, and if anyone happens to want to do that, the credit system might be of use to such sysops.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From echicken@1:103/705 to Nightfox on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 21:26:58
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Nightfox to echicken on Wed Apr 08 2020 15:32:26

    Does Synchronet no longer update credits when files are downloaded via the
    web interface? Sometimes
    I've seen notices that someone downloaded some of my files via the web and
    it says I got credit for
    the downloads.. I haven't seen much of that lately though, so I don't know
    if it's still working
    properly for me or not.

    As far as I can recall, my web UI does not do anything like that. Maybe these were coming from your FTP server?

    It's still possible to run a dialup BBS, and if anyone happens to want to
    do that, the credit system
    might be of use to such sysops.

    In theory. Most dialup systems are purely for novelty's sake and I think the credit system would be as well. I get that you don't want one person tying up the line all day, but it's not like anybody's got a queue of modem-only users with their terminal o
    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    Synchronet electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Digital Man@1:103/705 to echicken on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 19:17:14
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: echicken to Digital Man on Wed Apr 08 2020 04:53 pm

    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Digital Man to echicken on Wed Apr 08 2020 13:14:28

    Oh, and if your filebase library is read-only, then you wouldn't be updating
    the file's statistics (times downloaded, last downloaded).

    And then there's the system-wide file transfer stats (stored in ctrl/dsts.dab, a file that should be deprecated in favor of a better file format), I'm guessing you're probably not updating those.

    Definitely not updating any of those at the moment. I'm sure some sysops care about that, but it hasn't been a priority for me.

    I'm working on creating a JS method you can call to "do the things" after somebody downloads a file.

    not implemented. A work-around would be to have the web server point to FTP-URLs for the actual file transfer (which would require (re)authentication of the user) rather than using HTTP-GET, but that seems like a hack.

    Yeah, I didn't want to involve the FTP server if I didn't have to, party because of authentication, partly because of general hackiness.

    Agreed.

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #73:
    SyncTERM (created by Deuce) contains portions of Synchronet and SEXYZ code. Norco, CA WX: 52.3F, 70.0% humidity, 6 mph E wind, 0.05 inches rain/24hrs
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Geo@1:103/705 to Rampage on Thursday, April 09, 2020 09:39:03
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Rampage to Geo on Wed Apr 08 2020 13:16:00

    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Geo to Digital Man on Wed Apr 08 2020 18:22:57


    DM, Do you think it is something that can be fixed?

    the only real fix is to use http or https instead of ftp because most all
    browsers are dropping rendering
    of ftp retrieved pages and some are dropping ftp completely... this because
    standard ftp is as insecure as
    telnet... i don't know if they are supporting ftps or similar, though...


    )\/(ark


    Hi,

    Oh wow, I had no idea they were doing this. Seems sad. That will be the end of anon ftp sites then 8-(

    Regards..Geo
    ooooOOOOoooo

    ---
    Synchronet The Dungeon BBS - Risen from the Ashes! - Canberra, Australia. http://bbs.barnab
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Geo@1:103/705 to Digital Man on Thursday, April 09, 2020 09:40:41
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Digital Man to Geo on Wed Apr 08 2020 11:44:59


    Hi Gang, Hey I upgraded my linux based syncronet to 3.17c
    yesterday. Upgrade from CVS all seems
    to have gone great except now I am unable to access any of the flie
    library from the standard web
    interface. Has anyone else seen this behavior? Even when logged in
    to the web interface as me,
    (geo) if I look at the logs I see it try to access the ftp as user
    #2 Guest.

    It may be a change in the way the web browsers all work.

    I know Coz mentioned it has been broken for him for a while now on
    irc.

    Anyone else seen this behavior?

    Yes, due to browser changes, nothing in Synchronet.

    DM, Do you think it is something that can be fixed?

    Just wondering. 8-)

    The "fix" is likely going to be a http/web base file library/transfer
    interface and just abandon and
    possibly remove the HTML-over-FTP idea.

    echicken has web-based file library thing for ecWebv4, I think, but the
    underlying infrastructure (the
    Synchronet JavaScript Object Model) is insufficient to really do it right
    (not ec's fault, my fault). We'll
    get there some day.

    digital man


    Cool, maybe I'll look into setting up ecWebv4 now that I'm stuck at home 8-)

    Thx

    Regards..Geo
    ooooOOOOoooo

    ---
    Synchronet The Dungeon BBS - Risen from the Ashes! - Canberra, Australia. http://bbs.barnab
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Digital Man@1:103/705 to Nightfox on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 19:19:29
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Nightfox to echicken on Wed Apr 08 2020 03:32 pm

    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: echicken to Digital Man on Wed Apr 08 2020 04:01 pm

    I'm just guessing that there are gaps even on the download side:
    like credit adjustments (deductions from downloaders and additions
    to the uploader, at the configured rates), user notifications. Does
    that stuff work?

    None of the credit-related stuff is implemented, but I think it could be added without too much hassle.

    Does Synchronet no longer update credits when files are downloaded via the web interface? Sometimes I've seen notices that someone downloaded some of my files via the web and it says I got credit for the downloads.. I haven't seen much of that lately though, so I don't know if it's still working properly for me or not.

    If by "the web interface", you're referring to the FTP-HTML interface, then yes, it still does the credit dance upon downloads. If you're referring to ecWeb's file browser/downloader thing (over HTTP), then no, I don't think it does or ever has.

    There's probably an argument for keeping the credit system around (some torrent trackers have similar concepts still in use today), but it hasn't seemed worth the effort thus far. I can't remember anyone other than Phil wanting to use it recently.

    It's still possible to run a dialup BBS, and if anyone happens to want to do that, the credit system might be of use to such sysops.

    Even over TCP/IP, credits could be useful. Statistics certainly are. <shrugs>

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #54:
    PET = Personal Electronic Transactor (Commodore computer)
    Norco, CA WX: 52.3F, 70.0% humidity, 6 mph E wind, 0.05 inches rain/24hrs
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Digital Man@1:103/705 to Geo on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 19:23:25
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Geo to Digital Man on Thu Apr 09 2020 09:40 am

    Cool, maybe I'll look into setting up ecWebv4 now that I'm stuck at home 8-)

    Oh.... you too? :-)

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #41:
    Ian Faith: It say's "Memphis show cancelled due to lack of advertising funds." Norco, CA WX: 51.9F, 68.0% humidity, 7 mph ESE wind, 0.05 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Nightfox@1:103/705 to echicken on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 19:26:04
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: echicken to Nightfox on Wed Apr 08 2020 09:26 pm

    In theory. Most dialup systems are purely for novelty's sake and I think the credit system would be as well. I get that you don't want one person tying up the line all day, but it's not like anybody's got a queue of modem-only users with their terminal on auto-redial all day, dying to hear a carrier instead of a busy signal.

    I've seen some people running plain FTP servers implement a ratio system. If someone is running a BBS that they plan to use mainly to host files, with potentially many file transfers, I suppose a sysop might want a credit system.
    But generally I'd agre
    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Nightfox@1:103/705 to Digital Man on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 19:27:48
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Wed Apr 08 2020 07:19 pm

    It's still possible to run a dialup BBS, and if anyone happens to want
    to do that, the credit system might be of use to such sysops.

    Even over TCP/IP, credits could be useful. Statistics certainly are. <shrugs>

    Yeah, I could see situations where credits could be useful over TCP/IP.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From echicken@1:103/705 to Digital Man on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 22:45:44
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Digital Man to echicken on Wed Apr 08 2020 19:17:14

    I'm working on creating a JS method you can call to "do the things" after
    somebody downloads a file.

    Thanks - I'll keep an eye out for it and give it a try once it's available.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    Synchronet electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From echicken@1:103/705 to Nightfox on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 23:06:51
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Nightfox to echicken on Wed Apr 08 2020 19:26:04

    I've seen some people running plain FTP servers implement a ratio system.
    If someone is running a
    BBS that they plan to use mainly to host files, with potentially many file
    transfers, I suppose a

    Yeah, that's what I was imagining when I made the comparison to private torrent
    trackers in an earlier message. Someone *might* use Synchronet in a scenario that involves a lot of file xfer traffic, so it *could* be a useful feature. For someone, but not
    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    Synchronet electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Nightfox@1:103/705 to echicken on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 21:14:09
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: echicken to Nightfox on Wed Apr 08 2020 11:06 pm

    I've seen some people running plain FTP servers implement a ratio
    system. If someone is running a BBS that they plan to use mainly to
    host files, with potentially many file transfers, I suppose a

    Yeah, that's what I was imagining when I made the comparison to private torrent trackers in an earlier message.

    I know. I was just thnking it was a scenario where someone might find a credit
    system useful.

    Someone *might* use Synchronet in
    a scenario that involves a lot of file xfer traffic, so it *could* be a useful feature. For someone, but not most of us.

    Yep. Though, even though most of us might not be using Synchronet for high file transfer systems, Synchronet still supports file transfers with file areas.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From DaiTengu@1:103/705 to echicken on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 23:46:58
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: echicken to Nightfox on Wed Apr 08 2020 09:26 pm

    In theory. Most dialup systems are purely for novelty's sake and I think the credit system would be as well. I get that you don't want one person tying up the line all day, but it's not like anybody's got a queue of modem-only users with their terminal on auto-redial all day, dying to hear a carrier instead of a busy signal.

    My BBS is pretty active, probably 20 or so users that connect each month (some
    multiple times per day), and I'm still lucky if I get 1 or 2 dialup calls per month.

    DaiTengu

    ... It is undignified for a woman to play servant to a man who is not hers.

    ---
    Synchronet War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Gamgee@1:103/705 to Geo on Thursday, April 09, 2020 07:31:00
    Geo wrote to Rampage <=-

    the only real fix is to use http or https instead of ftp because most
    all browsers are dropping rendering of ftp retrieved pages and some are dropping ftp completely...

    Oh wow, I had no idea they were doing this. Seems sad. That will
    be the end of anon ftp sites then 8-(

    Well, no..... as long as you access them with an FTP client,
    instead of a browser, they work just fine.


    ... I have a step ladder - I never knew my real ladder.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Altere@1:103/705 to Nightfox on Thursday, April 09, 2020 14:55:29
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Nightfox to echicken on Wed Apr 08 2020 07:26 pm

    In theory. Most dialup systems are purely for novelty's sake and I
    think the credit system would be as well. I get that you don't want
    one person tying up the line all day, but it's not like anybody's
    got a queue of modem-only users with their terminal on auto-redial
    all day, dying to hear a carrier instead of a busy signal.

    I've seen some people running plain FTP servers implement a ratio system. If someone is running a BBS that they plan to use mainly to host files, with potentially many file transfers, I suppose a sysop might want a credit system. But generally I'd agree, credit systems are a novelty thing. I haven't configured any credit system on my BBS since I started it again in 2007.

    I've connected to a few glFTPd servers back in the day that had ratios, but yeah, that was early 2000's. I don't have much of a download area these days, so I don't know how much of a need would be to have that type system although I
    guess it's good to h
    -altere

    ---
    Synchronet Athelstan BBS athelstan.org telnet:23 / ssh:2222
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Gamgee on Friday, April 10, 2020 09:01:00
    On 04-09-20 07:31, Gamgee wrote to Geo <=-

    Well, no..... as long as you access them with an FTP client,
    instead of a browser, they work just fine.

    I'm sure wget will keep working with FTP. :)


    ... Every revolutionary ends up either by becoming an oppressor or a heretic. === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@1:103/705 to Nightfox on Thursday, April 09, 2020 10:27:00
    Nightfox wrote to Digital Man <=-

    Even over TCP/IP, credits could be useful. Statistics certainly are. <shrugs>

    Yeah, I could see situations where credits could be useful over TCP/IP.

    If not for ensuring access to a dial-up line, a credit system is a great way of building your file areas by making people contribute to them.


    ... It is quite possible (after all)
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    Synchronet realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Gamgee@1:103/705 to Tony Langdon on Thursday, April 09, 2020 21:06:00
    Tony Langdon wrote to Gamgee <=-

    On 04-09-20 07:31, Gamgee wrote to Geo <=-

    Well, no..... as long as you access them with an FTP client,
    instead of a browser, they work just fine.

    I'm sure wget will keep working with FTP. :)

    Yep, it sure will! ;)



    ... Pros are those who do their jobs well, even when they don't feel like it. --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Gamgee on Friday, April 10, 2020 17:34:00
    On 04-09-20 21:06, Gamgee wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    I'm sure wget will keep working with FTP. :)

    Yep, it sure will! ;)

    wget is probably what I access FTP sites with most often nowadays, because I'm automatically grabbing a known file, or have copied and pasted a ftp:// URL to a headless machine. :)


    ... The city is not a concrete jungle. It is a human zoo.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Rampage@1:103/705 to Tony Langdon on Friday, April 10, 2020 10:09:02
    Re: Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Tony Langdon to Gamgee on Fri Apr 10 2020 09:01:00


    Well, no..... as long as you access them with an FTP client,
    instead of a browser, they work just fine.

    I'm sure wget will keep working with FTP. :)

    the key aspect of this, with regard to browsers, is the rendering of html pages
    pulled via ftp... that's the initial thing that is being dropped... html pages retrieved via ftp are now downloaded and saved to disk rather than being rendered and displayed
    aside from that, ftp is being dropped for security reasons, too... some bright spark figured out how to set up an iframe off screen or too small to be seen and this iframe would make a ftp connection to a site using the configured credentials... a lot of
    there was other stuff also being done that could retrieve the passwords configured in the browser and send them to the site, as well... then all the nefarious had to do was put them together and see if they could get into the accounts... if nothing else,
    yeah, sneaky bastards, they are...


    )\/(ark

    ---
    Synchronet The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Gamgee@1:103/705 to Tony Langdon on Friday, April 10, 2020 19:29:00
    Tony Langdon wrote to Gamgee <=-

    I'm sure wget will keep working with FTP. :)

    Yep, it sure will! ;)

    wget is probably what I access FTP sites with most often
    nowadays, because I'm automatically grabbing a known file, or
    have copied and pasted a ftp:// URL to a headless machine. :)

    Yes, I use it a lot that way, too.

    Also in many of my scripts that auto-grab updates and such.



    ... Bug free, cheap, on time, works. Pick two.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Rampage on Saturday, April 11, 2020 11:35:00
    On 04-10-20 10:09, Rampage wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    the key aspect of this, with regard to browsers, is the rendering of
    html pages pulled via ftp... that's the initial thing that is being dropped... html pages retrieved via ftp are now downloaded and saved to disk rather than being rendered and displayed as if they were served
    via the http(s) protocol(s)...

    Which actually makes more sense, when you think about it. FTP is for transferring files, not rendering web pages.

    aside from that, ftp is being dropped for security reasons, too... some bright spark figured out how to set up an iframe off screen or too
    small to be seen and this iframe would make a ftp connection to a site using the configured credentials... a lot of people actually ocnfigured their email address in their browser instead of leaving the default "something@" in place... this gave the nefarious ones the person's
    email address...

    there was other stuff also being done that could retrieve the passwords configured in the browser and send them to the site, as well... then
    all the nefarious had to do was put them together and see if they could get into the accounts... if nothing else, they at least gathered more valid email addresses to sell on their spam lists...

    Yeah nasty stuff, all good reasons to drop FTP support. :)


    yeah, sneaky bastards, they are...

    Very. :)


    ... Chuck Norris doesn't wear a watch, HE decides what time it is.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Gamgee on Saturday, April 11, 2020 12:23:00
    On 04-10-20 19:29, Gamgee wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    Tony Langdon wrote to Gamgee <=-

    I'm sure wget will keep working with FTP. :)

    Yep, it sure will! ;)

    wget is probably what I access FTP sites with most often
    nowadays, because I'm automatically grabbing a known file, or
    have copied and pasted a ftp:// URL to a headless machine. :)

    Yes, I use it a lot that way, too.

    Also in many of my scripts that auto-grab updates and such.

    Yeah, pretty much the same use cases as me. ;)


    ... Hold on a sec. A cat is tugging at my heartstrings.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Rampage@1:103/705 to Tony Langdon on Saturday, April 11, 2020 08:38:36
    Re: Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Tony Langdon to Rampage on Sat Apr 11 2020 11:35:00


    the key aspect of this, with regard to browsers, is the rendering of
    html pages pulled via ftp... that's the initial thing that is being
    dropped... html pages retrieved via ftp are now downloaded and saved
    to disk rather than being rendered and displayed as if they were
    served via the http(s) protocol(s)...

    Which actually makes more sense, when you think about it. FTP is for transferring files, not rendering web pages.

    well, that's the thing... transferring the file is exactly what it was doing...
    they were just then handing the downloaded file to the browser section for rendering once it arrived... once the browser got it, it rendered it just like it had been pulled v

    )\/(ark

    ---
    Synchronet The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Rampage on Sunday, April 12, 2020 12:18:00
    On 04-11-20 08:38, Rampage wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    well, that's the thing... transferring the file is exactly what it was doing... they were just then handing the downloaded file to the browser section for rendering once it arrived... once the browser got it, it rendered it just like it had been pulled via http... technically, both protocols are for transferring files... it is what is done after
    getting the file that makes the difference ;)

    Good point, though there's obviously more going on, given that FTP has been implicated in security issues that aren't attributed to HTTP(S). :)


    ... A man who buys a mobile home doesn't get a lot.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Mortifis@1:103/705 to Digital Man on Sunday, April 12, 2020 22:51:13
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Rampage to Geo on Wed Apr 08 2020 01:16 pm

    It's not just insecure, it was a badly designed protocol. I'm guessing it'll go the way of UUCP and Gopher eventually, relegated to the dustbins of history, put out to pasture, given a nice a grave stone that nobody will visit. :-(

    digital man

    Sadly, I agree, after many years (decades?) I abandoned rumemaster (thank you runemaster )... and all of my self-hacks to it ... it was awesome ... I switched to webv4 ... I believe it is time to include webv4 back into cvs :-p

    ---
    Synchronet AlleyCat! BBS Lake Echo, NS Canada
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Digital Man@1:103/705 to Mortifis on Sunday, April 12, 2020 19:26:58
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Mortifis to Digital Man on Sun Apr 12 2020 10:51 pm

    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Rampage to Geo on Wed Apr 08 2020 01:16 pm

    It's not just insecure, it was a badly designed protocol. I'm guessing it'll go the way of UUCP and Gopher eventually, relegated to the dustbins of history, put out to pasture, given a nice a grave stone that nobody will visit. :-(

    Sadly, I agree, after many years (decades?) I abandoned rumemaster (thank you runemaster )... and all of my self-hacks to it ... it was awesome ... I switched to webv4 ...

    I was talking about FTP.

    I believe it is time to include webv4 back into cvs

    It never has been in CVS. echicken prefers github and that's fine. Perhaps occasional snapshots could be "released" from github to CVS.

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #69:
    SpiderMonkey = Mozilla's C/C++ JavaScript Engine (libmozjs)
    Norco, CA WX: 55.3F, 87.0% humidity, 3 mph ESE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From echicken@1:103/705 to Mortifis on Sunday, April 12, 2020 23:01:46
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Mortifis to Digital Man on Sun Apr 12 2020 22:51:13

    switched to webv4 ... I believe it is time to include webv4 back into cvs
    :-p

    I don't mind using CVS, but webv4 was never in there. I had two main reasons for putting it on GitHub instead (biggest one being that I can track issues there), and it's worked out fairly well so far.

    Maybe it can migrate over one day, but there are some things I'll want to sort out before then.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    Synchronet electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Nightfox@1:103/705 to Mortifis on Sunday, April 12, 2020 22:11:13
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Mortifis to Digital Man on Sun Apr 12 2020 10:51 pm

    Sadly, I agree, after many years (decades?) I abandoned rumemaster (thank you runemaster )... and all of my self-hacks to it ... it was awesome ... I switched to webv4 ... I believe it is time to include webv4 back into cvs :-p

    Yeah, after I had used the Runemaster interface for quite a while (and made a few hacks myself), I decided to switch to ecwebv4. I think ecwebv4 looks good & works well. Also, one thing about ecwebv4 is its sidebar and ease of adding links to your own
    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Digital Man@1:103/705 to Nightfox on Sunday, April 12, 2020 22:57:58
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Nightfox to echicken on Sun Apr 12 2020 10:14 pm

    I remember ecwebv3 being in CVS. I seem to remember reading that it was the plan to eventually make ecweb the default Synchronet web interface, and I thought it may make it easier if ecweb was in CVS. Though, I remember the Synchronet 3.17 installer having an option for whether you want the older Runemaster interface or ecwebv4 installed with Synchronet.

    Yeah, the v3.17b Windows installer includes a snapshot of the ecwebv4 from github circa Jan-1-2019.

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #21:
    DOS = Disk Operating System (as in PC-DOS and MS-DOS)
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    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From echicken@1:103/705 to Nightfox on Monday, April 13, 2020 02:25:03
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Nightfox to echicken on Sun Apr 12 2020 22:14:43

    it may make it easier if ecweb was in CVS.

    I've heard this a few times lately, and I don't really get it. The current update process is to run a script via jsexec. (Or just install and update using
    git.) Seems like roughly the same amount of work as doing a CVS update.

    Maybe people don't want to have to remember some other non-CVS update step, which I guess is fair.

    Mainly it's on GitHub because I wanted issue tracking, and because I wanted a clean slate re: directory structure. I get to say "you're getting a /sbbs/webv4
    directory, okay?" and not worry about whether it's okay to foist that upon the CVS repo (nor try
    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    Synchronet electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Nightfox@1:103/705 to echicken on Sunday, April 12, 2020 22:14:43
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: echicken to Mortifis on Sun Apr 12 2020 11:01 pm

    switched to webv4 ... I believe it is time to include webv4 back
    into cvs :-p

    I don't mind using CVS, but webv4 was never in there. I had two main reasons for putting it on GitHub instead (biggest one being that I can track issues there), and it's worked out fairly well so far.

    Maybe it can migrate over one day, but there are some things I'll want to sort out before then.

    I remember ecwebv3 being in CVS. I seem to remember reading that it was the plan to eventually make ecweb the default Synchronet web interface, and I thought it may make it easier if ecweb was in CVS. Though, I remember the Synchronet 3.17 installer ha
    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Rampage@1:103/705 to Nightfox on Monday, April 13, 2020 06:31:36
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Nightfox to Mortifis on Sun Apr 12 2020 22:11:13


    Nightfox> One of my mods with the Runemaster interface was a sidebar with
    Nightfox> links to various pages, though I was using frames (which I think
    Nightfox> might be generally discouraged, as I never see web sites using
    Nightfox> frames anymore).

    right... most switched to using CSS to fake frames but there are also a lot of iframes being used... some of them are being used without the user's being aware as they are pixel sized or out of the viewing area... those are the sneaky ones generally doin

    )\/(ark

    ---
    Synchronet The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Nightfox@1:103/705 to echicken on Monday, April 13, 2020 13:07:30
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: echicken to Nightfox on Mon Apr 13 2020 02:25 am

    it may make it easier if ecweb was in CVS.

    I've heard this a few times lately, and I don't really get it. The current update process is to run a script via jsexec. (Or just install and update using git.) Seems like roughly the same amount of work as doing a CVS update.

    I was thinking from the standpoint of making a Synchronet installer. But I suppose it doesn't make a big difference if it's on GitHub.

    Maybe people don't want to have to remember some other non-CVS update step, which I guess is fair.

    I started using ecweb before the update script. I've used the update script a couple times, but sometimes I forget it's there.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Nightfox@1:103/705 to Rampage on Monday, April 13, 2020 13:08:38
    Re: ftp via web interface broken?
    By: Rampage to Nightfox on Mon Apr 13 2020 06:31 am

    Nightfox> One of my mods with the Runemaster interface was a sidebar with Nightfox> links to various pages, though I was using frames (which I think Nightfox> might be generally discouraged, as I never see web sites using Nightfox> frames anymore).

    right... most switched to using CSS to fake frames but there are also a lot of iframes being used... some of them are being used without the user's being aware as they are pixel sized or out of the viewing area... those are the sneaky ones generally doing nefarious things...

    yeah.. Though by "frames" I meant the type of thing that split the browser window into separate frames/windows.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)